Patriotism is a Fraud and You Have Been Duped

a reply to: BigBrotherDarkness

natural law is animism and runs wholly counter to the notion of a civilized society...

I am speaking specifically of the Lockean et al philosophy of Natural Law which is the heart and soul of our Constitutional Republic, which in turn provides the foundational order upon which our society has thrived.

a reply to: Boadicea

and im speaking of the documents that came from all the study... not zeroing in on just one of the philosophies that went into its making as superior... just because it was borrowed does not mean it contained te truth as it is known and complete if it did then it wouldnt be a part of the whole it would be the whole. hence it is a failed policy on its own but parts of it do have merit and need not be abandoned... yet some do not have merit and do need to be abandoned like trimming the fat for a leaner cut.

a reply to: Asktheanimals

Imagine a world with no Nations, no borders and consequently no laws. Only the strong will flourish in such an environment and those with the greatest numbers who are the most brutal and cunning will succeed in ruling over the rest.

Lets be honest here -
Imagine a world with nations and borders and laws. Only America will flourish in such an environment as it create the dialogue and calls it "WMDS" "Operation Enduring Freedom" "Coalition Of The Willing". They have succeeded in displacing
and killing indirectly 100's of millions in the 20th Century and it continues.

a reply to: BigBrotherDarkness

and im speaking of the documents that came from all the study... not zeroing in on just one of the philosophies that went into its making as superior...

But we are speaking in terms of patriotism, and therefore the Natural Law particular to the foundational and organic law of this nation. We can discuss amending the law and Constitution based upon a higher knowledge or understanding of Natural Law, or how to improve upon the implementation of this Natural Law, and/or various other ways, but address it we must.

you belive in the flag so much!
Thats why US is in such a mess.
Blind!
why do you think you think you Prayed to the flag every day at school?

You know...*chewing thoughtfully*...

It always seemed odd to me that people were raging and screaming against a "New World Order" or one-world government...yet at the same time gung-ho about bombing the ever-living hell out of everyone to "bring democracy!" ...

Isn't it kind of ironic that the same people decrying a one-world government are OK with spreading "Americanism" to every country they can? Put a Walmart and McDonalds in every city...Everyone should be, and want to be American!

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: DisinfoCom

Man. It's just a shame that a bunch of fellas calling themselves patriots wrote some crap down on a piece of "paper" that secured your right to carry a soviet flag and scream Soviet names out in a fit of teenage angst.

It's a shame a bunch of guys who thought the promise of America meant not wearing chains and working for free so somebody else could reap the benefits of your work.

It's a shame we live in a country where many view non-conformist ideas and speech as the very fabric of the term patriot.

I congratulate you, sir, on being such an incredible patriot that you so willingly use the rights given to you to rail against the country you reside in. May you carry on with your patriotic endeavor for all your lifetime.

I CONCUR!

Disinfo.com, is that a mission statement? Thank you disinfo, for making it clear to me, where you stand, and how much you suck ass. I wasn't sure before and actually went on your site a few times. Won't happen again.

Patriotism can be used as manipulatively as the new pc paradigm. Having a sense of place and pride in itself is a good thing. Not being an ass to others is also in itself a good thing. And yet both have been used to manipulate the public.

The answer is to learn critical thinking skills.

a reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight

Since you're from Australia I wouldn't expect you to know this but America is NOT flourishing.

To pin it all on the US isn't quite correct though our military provides the muscle. This is the New World Order throwing it's weight around, a collection of world's wealthiest people who use National governments as pawns in their never-ending quest for more control over everything on the planet.

originally posted by: woodwardjnr
a reply to: Baldryck

TextAmerica was built on rebellion and freedom of expression.

Not to mention the slave trade, but as I said, lets edit that part of history and talk about liberty and freedom.

Don't worry, no one will EVER let you or anyone else forget about that.

I must hear it 4-5 times a day.

Never mind that MY people were all but exterminated by Europeans. But I digress.

Patriotism can indeed be dangerous. It can be folded into something bad like Nazism, or into something even worse when coupled with religion.

However, that doesn't mean ALL patriotism is bad, just that it can be.

Life isn't full of absolutes after all.

a reply to: DisinfoCom

Patriotism is not the issue. Many patriots tend to the log in their own eye before looking to the speck in the eyes of other nations. However, rampant nationalism is another situation entirely, and in the instance where these two have been conflated for one another, I agree with you entirely. I believe that I am a patriot, because I love my country enough to be honest about its failures, both historically and those which have come to pass during my life, not to mention those which are still coming to pass today.

A nationalist would poo poo the idea that my nation bears any responsibility for the state of the Middle East today. I, on the other hand, would attest that our involvement in the situation goes back decades, if not longer, and that we have a duty to correct our mistakes before we even ATTEMPT to act from a moral high ground, a position that we have no right to adopt until or unless our nation, it's government and its people are prepared to accept our role in things thus far.

I think that is the difference. I love my country, but in all the years I have been alive so far, I have never once thought it would be a good idea to join a military organisation, because we have leaders we cannot trust to use our armed forces correctly, provide for their needs both operationally, or in terms of health and equipment, or troop strength for that matter. We also have had leaders who would use those forces for things they should not be used for, like illegal wars which do more harm than they were touted to be preventing.

The long and short of it is, that patriotism is loving your nation well enough to be honest about its failures and victories, whereas nationalism, to my mind anyway, is a situation in which ones homeland can do no wrong. I sing my nations national anthem with pride when given the opportunity, but I do so with pride only for those moments in which we did things to be proud of, and in memory of those who did those things. I sing it in defiance of those moments of our history of which we should not be proud, not because of them. I love my country enough that I would see it avoid repeating past mistakes, enough that I would see it better itself, both by directly improving it, and by doing its bit to improve the lives of those in nations that it has wronged over the last few decades.

I love this place enough that I would see it burn before I saw it become the tyrant it was in years past. Many moons ago, the Romans came here, and set in motion the events that led our little nation to become one of the grandest powerhouses of war and conquest the world had ever seen. I am a patriot, because I believe we were better before that, and refuse to accept that a repeat performance of that empire is in its interests, or the interests of its people.

This is my home, this land under my feet. Every square inch of roadway, every single meter of elevation in the mountains, from compass point to compass point, from the English Channel to the Irish Sea, and I love it, all of it. Love begins with honesty though, true love anyway. So go, love your nation, love the things about it that make you smile, but never feel that hating the parts that make you furious stops you being a patriot. It is the only thing that ensures that you are a patriot at all.

ok, um, "disinfo" is it?

higher values are the problem? uh-huh.

sounds like…disinfo!


the problem is that higher values without God do not equate to higher values.

how about that for a novel thought: evil people in a church will not make a church magically GOOD.

make sense?

Alexis de Tocqueville, (1805-1859) the French social philosopher visited America to discover the reasons for our incredible success.  "Democracy in America" (1838)

"Upon my arrival in the United States the religious aspect of the country was the first thing that struck my attention; and the longer I stayed there, the more I perceived the great political consequences resulting from this new state of things.

In France, I had almost always seen the spirit of religion and the spirit of freedom marching in opposite directions. But in America I found they were intimately united and that they reigned in common over the same country.

Religion in America...must be regarded as the foremost of the political institutions of that country; for if it does not impart a taste for freedom, it facilitates the use of it. Indeed, it is in this same point of view that the inhabitants of the United States themselves look upon religious belief.

I do not know whether all Americans have a sincere faith in their religion -- for who can search the human heart? But I am certain that they hold it to be indispensable to the maintenance of republican institutions. This opinion is not peculiar to a class of citizens or a party, but it belongs to the whole nation and to every rank of society.

In the United States, the sovereign authority is religious...there is no country in the world where the Christian religion retains a greater influence over the souls of men than in America, and there can be no greater proof of its utility and of its conformity to human nature than that its influence is powerfully felt over the most enlightened and free nation of the earth.

In the United States, the influence of religion is not confined to the manners, but it extends to the intelligence of the people...

Christianity, therefore, reigns without obstacle, by universal consent...

I sought for the key to the greatness and genius of America in her harbors...; in her fertile fields and boundless forests; in her rich mines and vast world commerce; in her public school system and institutions of learning. I sought for it in her democratic Congress and in her matchless Constitution.

Not until I went into the churches of America and heard her pulpits flame with righteousness did I understand the secret of her genius and power.

America is great because America is good, and if America ever ceases to be good, America will cease to be great. 

The safeguard of morality is religion, and morality is the best security of law as well as the surest pledge of freedom.

The Americans combine the notions of Christianity and of liberty so intimately in their minds, that it is impossible to make them conceive the one without the other

Christianity is the companion of liberty in all its conflicts -- the cradle of its infancy, and the divine source of its claims."

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“Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.”
--John Adams

Patriotism is loving your country and respecting your fellow man as well as keeping your government in check, transparent and accountable...and working for you.

Patriotism has absolutely nothing to do with an allegiance towards a countries government and it's policies whether foreign or domestic.

To me there are 2 different types of Patriotism.

1) The fun one when you cheer for your country to be successful on the world stage, like this.


2)The cognitive dissonance programed by years of propaganda that leads to supporting the invasion of Iraq, and accepting the explanation of who is to blame for 9/11 by the Bush administration.
And then saying anybody who questions these things is not patriotic.

a reply to: Boadicea

patroitism is a fallacy that the lines drawn in the dirt by separation somehow has made one supperior to all others due to this accident. no one is special by such accidents, take all human failings and triumphs and they are all contained these made up lines and ideas of superiority. it has nothing to do with the documents that make a so called country great nor any singular group but the indiviuals that make it all up and that on a whole is called humanity.

A plea for Globalism. How completely normal for this site.

a reply to: Tempter

its coming like dinner time whether one is hungry or not... question is how do you want that beef cooked up? raw and bloody? tough as the leather itself? or spiced with all culture respected and found within it?

a reply to: mouthfullofkefirgrains

Funny ,one would think you have missed the current efforts to displace all of that.
Not to mention,politics are what DC runs on not faith.
In case you didn't think, so MOST Christians disapprove of the lunatics and their ideas of conflict,it is especially joyous to go fight in one,Then get tagged for the leader's choices as the bad guy,by morons who have NO IDEA what conflicts are fought.

Equally amusing is how they are attempting to bite the fists that stand between them and all the s##t that the world wants to hit back for.
IF YOU want to take that blow go take it ,wailing with self flagellating vigor,"America is EVIL."
I'm not evil,maybe dangerous if cornered ,I'm a patriot and a vet.

a reply to: MALBOSIA

Didn't the U.S come into WW1, fresh, optimistic and ready after Britain and France had spent 3 years fighting in the most depraved and inhuman conditions imaginable, in such slaughter houses as Ypres, the Somme, Pachendale, where whole towns and cities in Britain lost their men aged 16 to 45 and which ended up costing Britain almost a million men?
You come waltzing into this two thirds of the way through and have the unbelievable arrogance to posture as if "you won the war" and Britain was beaten etc..etc...etc...?
If that isn't the most delusional, twisted, dishonourable propaganda to feed patriot fervour I don't know what is?