Patriotism is a Fraud and You Have Been Duped

I have never understood or resonated with the notion that simply by virtue of birth, one is required or expected to be loyal to or defend one's homeland at the expense of other parts of what is - in my mind - one species.

However, it's a bit more complicated than that if I'm really honest with myself and confront some challenging realities. I live in America, and benefit directly from the privileges of doing so, and the liberty that is enshrined (however increasingly eroded in form) in our constitution. That does mean something to me. I believe in those precepts. I believe that I am incredibly fortunate to live in a country which, despite being far from perfect (some would say increasingly further from perfect as time passes, especially of late,) is at least more ideal for me than others might be (and in some cases, would certainly be.)

So while I do not adhere to the notion of patriotism, I do defend and support the - at least theoretical - principles upon which this nation was - ostensibly - founded. Where I draw the line is in defending or supporting warfare, geopolitical strategic gambits to control or retain regional influence, and the seemingly progressive curtailing of the aforementioned liberties in which I so believe.

The issue is analogously true of racism. "If you're white and say you're colorblind, then you're perpetuating racism by refusing to acknowledge or honor people's heritage and culture," is an argument I see increasingly. But... I don't believe in race. I just don't. There is one race: the human race. Period. I refuse to adopt - let alone consciously accentuate - invisible, arbitrary lines drawn people human beings. The solution, similar to how I reconcile my belief in the principles this country supposedly stands for with my rejection of patriotism, is found in nuance and context.

Just as I don't believe in patriotism yet honor certain national principles, I likewise do not believe in the premise of race, yet honor and respect differences in heritage and culture... while always remembering (and pointing out where possible) that those individual delineations fall under the umbrella of our shared human heritage. I also make a point of acknowledging that even if I don't believe in race personally, we do exist in a society where intersectional oppression exists, and as such, whether I like it or not, this system does create division, does oppress and mistreat along ethnic, gender, religious, sexual, etc. lines, and as such - while those divisions are not real to my thinking, but rather arbitrary and contrived - they do in practice have real effects on real people's lives.

That's how I balance those complex issues personally, while refusing to relinquish my beliefs. In short, as always, things aren't cut and dried.

Peace.

It's not that American Patriotism is wrong or bad, it's that the Americans who usually claim to be Patriots, just don't understand the last six words of the Pledge of Allegiance. Especially the last two.

Ok, so after reading this I FINALLY decided to join the ATS and not just be a background observer.. I've peeked the ATS for the past few years and absolutely love the openness.. not sure why it took so long to get on board, but I just guess it was time to start putting my .02 in here and there.. especially here!.. SO, on that note, being a Hawai'ian I totally feel this thread.. While living a majority of my life here on the main-land (Oregon), as I've gotten older I've figured out quite a bit as far as the ol' red-white-n-blue goes.. smh.. Violence, Slavery and intimidation is VERY hard for me to be patriotic to.. especially given the way Hawai'i was taken (en.wikipedia.org...).. not too sure what to think anymore, except yeah, duped!.. excellent choice of wording.. no better off than the bees that die for the queen bee.. Oh man, I have soooo much to say, but don't even really no where to begin.. so for now I guess all I can say is I'm glad to be out in the open, and to the OP ;-) ... & to everyone else, if something's too good to be true, it probably isn't.............Aloha'


NW.

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: Stormdancer777
Who in their right mind would want a weak nation that cannot defend its-self, or its people?

Take a good look at what is happening around the world.

Propaganda is used by both sides. Why would a citizen propagandist want to weaken their nation?

There are just to many layers to this onion.

The UK has no were near the militarization in its civilian way of life and our propaganda is a lot lighter plus we dont make kids sing the national athem or do stupid things like pledges of allegiance.

But we are not weak and certainly not defenceless.
History shows how bad things happen to countrys that attack us.


There being proud of you country but recogniseing its faults and then rar rar bull#.

Wow......

No, you just sing the praises of Germanic pedophiles. Your government may be strong, but your people are defenseless and gullible.

"propaganda a lot lighter", that's too funny.

a reply to: pyramid head

Aside from the sweeping generalization... the defect of the child molester is that they equate the sexual act to either love, control, or both when they know it's wrong and try to get the victim to hide it via various means.

It is like many conditioned things, such trying to cope with try to avoid the stimulus in various ways... this has led to morals. But removing the "food" does not prevent whatever hunger... so the moral system is not a fix at all, and is often why so many hide behind religions as either a coping mechanism or who would suspect someone hiding in plain sight of such depravity?

Religion is simply psychology... some therapies work and some don't.

Patriotism will not cure any countries problem just rally a cause for some agenda.

originally posted by: DisinfoCom
I have always viewed Patriotism as an aberration.

ok, felt like tossing my 2 cents in here due to an understanding everyone is breathlessly waiting for my opinion


I wont be short
Naked tribalism is of course a false blinding allegiance towards ones state/country, manufactured out of historical necessity to keep that state/country alive. team spirit we like to call it on a local level, pushed into us in schooldays, learn small and grow.

Now, is this necessarily a bad thing?
Well, it depends on how its used. Yes, we can go straight to the nazis and such and show their use of patriotism to commit a atrocity war engine, but that is disingenous. Fact is, humans are tribal beings, we do best in groups, and seek out structure even if there was no government.

Germany was ripe pre-nazi regime..they were beaten down with little national pride, they had no real identity, no care for nationalism, and ultimately were perfectly cynical of patriotic duty..jobs were sparce, the economy in shambles, and the nation was in a dark time. So, a person who comes from a different land, a man without a home himself, without the stability of a tribe makes one, and people flock to it because yes, the propaganda was great, but it was also desired..people want and love structure, love the tribe, love being part of something greater than themselves (its why religion does soo well).

So, patriotism..nationalism..these giant group things will always exist
how we then choose to form it seems to be more important than why we form it..seems there is something in our core being as a human that pushes us on average for it. Safety in numbers, survival understanding, we know we do best in huge groups.

When you were doing your Stalin thing, yeah, people didn't like it because of what it represented and you were also being a little s--t ruining the day, but also you at core represented a desire to destroy the tribe, which translates on a subconscious level to an attack against the survival potential..you basically were threatening their life by attacking the identity of the tribe. Naked tribalism..people cheer when the traitor to the country gets hung, they even hold holidays for it hundreds of years later (Guy Fawkes)

So yeah, questioning tribalism is moot..been going on since mankind inhabited caves, and in the future, far into the future, I imagine galactic quadrants will have their own team spirit.

Which is dumb considering the Pleiades star clusterers is best star cluster!!!

I used to think as many here do but it is slowly fading away.

I am proud of what this country has done, its culture at least what is left of it after all this cynicalism, nihlism, and kardashianism it is one of the best cultures in the world. It is worth defending.

The two countries with the best cultures in the world, america and germany are the two main countries that have to carry this ball and chain on their ankle.

Do japanese destroy their culture over japanese imperialism? no. Does china destroy its culture its mao's great democide forward? no. Do brits destroy themselves over slavery including enslaving irish? Do any of the arab states hate themselves for slavery which was worse than new world colonial slavery? I could go on and on and on. A lot of these european nations had slave colonies, do they all guilt trip themselves over it? no.

Americans are #1 for shaming themselves in the world. How does a people blame itself for stuff it was not even around for.

Instead of fighting for what's right, what's moral, what is good for our fellow americans we have taught ourselves not too. Tribalism brings tremedous energy into a system, look at how all these fans love their sports teams, imagine if this energy was directed towards america and its people. The other half of people are stuck in this nihlist void where they attempt to destroy themselves through drugs and other truly pointless behaviors.

Now it looks to me as if this is the real con and we have all been had. instead of using tribal emotions against each other the elites have decided it is easier to control a people who destroy the culture around them and themselves.

originally posted by: Boadicea
Methinks the author does not know or understand the difference between "nationalism" and "patriotism."

Nationalism is "Rah! Rah! USA right or wrong!!!"
Patriotism is wanting the best for your nation, and therefore her people, and acting accordingly.

Big difference.

That was on the first page, just in case anyone is still confused...

I was a JROTC kid and a Civil Air Patrol kid back when the Cold War was hot. This is when I began to notice racism and discrimination as rampant in society. It struck me as high hypocrisy to go on about freedom while actively discriminating against anyone, to include gays, atheists, wiccans, anyone who was 'different'. Homogeneous societies, crops and animal species ultimately fail. So will the US if it continues a hypocritical agenda.

originally posted by: rob23
I was a JROTC kid and a Civil Air Patrol kid back when the Cold War was hot. This is when I began to notice racism and discrimination as rampant in society. It struck me as high hypocrisy to go on about freedom while actively discriminating against anyone, to include gays, atheists, wiccans, anyone who was 'different'. Homogeneous societies, crops and animal species ultimately fail. So will the US if it continues a hypocritical agenda.

WOW sounds like everyone I worked with one my last job. And when they couldn't convert me they discriminated against me.

a reply to: Logarock

I must be dense, 'cause I don't quite understand your reply.

This country was great no more than 100 years after the Constitution was inked. That's being generous. By this time it already began experimenting with central banks. As of right now it is a sicafantic sideshow of freaks and frauds. The current election sideshow is pathetic and more pathetic still is that the citizens believe that 1) they have any choice as to who is president 2) that whom ever has been chosen as president will change anything or have a positive impact on their life. They are all working with the financiers to keep big business afloat and the Military Industrial Complex thriving. A lot of money is yet to be made. So to be patriotic to a country that has stopped serving it's citizens is to be a huge fool! Yes, a huge fool! Since it is your constitutional duty to overthrow a government that has done what this one has and is, if you were a true Patriot you would take up arms against it. Until then waive your flag but make sure that flag is upside down because this country is in distress you fool! Not aimed at you logo rock, sorry. I just seen a Patriot's post.

a reply to: DisinfoCom

Well written, a shame people don't get it. They seem to think that freedom and Patriotism are synonymous.

In fact, Patriotism is a chain that people have been locked to in order for the State to gain power. It's the goal of the Hegelian teachings that the State become the most important aspect and central to everyone's life. Patriotism is the vehicle that ensures that the State maintains it's hypnotic power over people.

I would go further and suggest that if our "Founding Fathers" really wanted freedom they wouldn't have created a country on a land already inhabited by natives. They would simply live among and beside the natives without creating a country with laws.

You are 100% correct. the entire patriotism act is all MIND CONTROL! You are to be an obedient ignorant tax payer (which there is no law requiring that Americans even pay taxes! look it up) pay taxes and don't ask any questions or you're a terrorist! just keep your head down while we build FEMA camps! and spend trillions on DEEP UNDERGROUND MILITARY BASES all over America that are also fully functional and stocked and staffed just like the FEMA camps, untold BILLIONS have been spent dumping CHEMTRAILS over populated ares! geo-engineering? mainly over populated areas? grow a brain. Have you heard of SEED BANKS? You do remember what they are for right? cataclysms is correct. So are all patriots and their families guaranteed a spot in these fully prepared bunkers…chances are the average patriot isn't filthy rich so see ya at campFEMA! (WW2 never ended, it simply took a pause while the scientist were divided up and Americans were lulled into a false sense of security. in their slumber they have been uninformed test subjects in myriad twisted ways and been bombarded with toxic for human things like Talcom powder, Asbestos (the Romans knew about asbestos for pets sake!), Fluoride, Chlorine, RF radiation (the major source of all health issues not relating to GMO foods! This list could go on and on but if you have read this far you may wan to research these things for yourself to be sure if you are a patriot or not!

a reply to: [post=20402166]DisinfoCom[/pos

Of course Patriotism is a fraud. People LOVE to be part of a club and to be seen supporting what is popular.

If you watch sports fans, it's pretty much the same idea as Patriotism.

"we all love the Patriots!" (see what I did there?) is pretty much saying the same thing as "we all love the United States!" even though you're not really sure WHY you do, other than the fact that all your friends do.

If you look just below the surface of your fandom and actually investigate the team rather than just unconditionally supporting them, you'll find that you loved them even through crappy seasons (and aren't really sure why) and continue to love them when their management make terrible decisions.

People like to use the phrase "I love my country" all the time, but when asked why, they give canned answers like "because we have freedom" without knowing that no, you really don't. Many of the other reasons you use for justification of your love of country are actually false, just like irrational support you have for your favorite sports team.

Patriotism is a mental disorder.
We're all stuck here on starship Earth and we need to start acting like it.

Patriotic songs piss me off! Being a factual branch off Mayflower! Into the witch's trials of Salem three of our family members charged. My grandfather's wife first Hung. Onto the Indian's war's threw the French Indian War. Grandfather a revolutionary War hero! crossed Delaware both times. Pioneer of Jersey with little brother of Benjamin Rush singer of the declaration of Independence! Knew George Washington he delivered the battle plan of Trenton for him. Outstanding Americans! Into the civil war our Nettie'was Abraham Lincoln's personal phycic medium. All service to Illinois regiment's died in Confederate war camp's! Into every war since then of my father's generations! Made Salem a wealthy tourist attraction. And they sing next to us so proudly we hailed!!! Bull#!! We hailed !the assholes next to you! And they sing out! And the flag was still there! But nobody has checked to see if we are! Off the Mayflower! nobody's checked the canoe! In Salem we were murdered! And the world's biggest witch cult! Is dancing on our grave's! Shouldn't someone have checked the Mayflower families! # this country! True story!

theres a difference between patriotism and propaganda. you should be proud of your country and its people. dont let the false patriotism propagated by the government blind you to what patriotism actually is.

Patriotism is a quality, an emotional attachment to your nation. It is a feeling of pride about your country and your nation, about people in your country and their decisions and achievements. It is a true feeling of satisfaction being a part of something big and valuable! However there are still people that are false patriots and they do everything to enlarge the conflict and because of them we started doubting in our country and our patriotism!