Patriotism is a Fraud and You Have Been Duped

a reply to: Boadicea

Usually the two aren't mutually exclusive. If you're a self confessed patriot, you're more than likely a nationalist as well.

I think to discuss patriotism properly we need to separate the System/Government from allegiance to the Nation that secures your inalienable rights.


In that case I'm a Patriot.

I'm far from a Statolatrist.
Probably more so than 99.9% of the board.

a reply to: DisinfoCom

They intentionally blur the line between government and country. Lets be clear, the government is NOT country.

Its all designed to silence criticism of the government, especially our war machine. And its well beyond "not being patriotic".

Dont agree with the endless warfare state or our policy of pre-emptive attacks? That would make you a hippie, a liberal, a terrorist sympathizer or [insert name here].

One of the most effective mantras is "support our troops". What exactly are we supposed to support?

Most, if not all of our wars in the past 50 years, have been illegal and immoral.

Our troops not only have the right to refuse illegal orders but its their moral duty to do so.


But it works both ways.

If you didnt support Bush's wars and legislation like the unPatriot Act, you were practically a terrorist.

Dont support Obamacare, the NDAA or Obama's wars, well then you're racist...

SMH.

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: DisinfoCom

Man. It's just a shame that a bunch of fellas calling themselves patriots wrote some crap down on a piece of "paper" that secured your right to carry a soviet flag and scream Soviet names out in a fit of teenage angst.

It's a shame a bunch of guys who thought the promise of America meant not wearing chains and working for free so somebody else could reap the benefits of your work.

It's a shame we live in a country where many view non-conformist ideas and speech as the very fabric of the term patriot.

I congratulate you, sir, on being such an incredible patriot that you so willingly use the rights given to you to rail against the country you reside in. May you carry on with your patriotic endeavor for all your lifetime.

Except people do work for less than what a good life costs so others can live a godly life with servants.

And expressing his non conformist personality is what got him kick out of the program and likely hindered him from many of the possibilities that are open to only those that are conformed. Maybe he didnt end up in chains but he will also likely never be allowed off the sidelines.

Obviously there is a time and place for everything, sadly sometimes the military is a necessity,

So ones nation is conquered by a vicious and terrifying enemy, That only wants to wipe out everyone of them what do you do, kiss their a$$?

Blind an dogmatic patriotism certainly exists. Sadly we seem to be seeing a veritable crap ton of it happening right now. The exclusionary / exclusive variety that seems more interested in reveling in a shared hatred rather than celebrating that in which we all can find commonality.

However, even knowing the game, I find myself reticent to totally write off the idea of patriotism because I think that, for many people, the spirit behind it boils down to much, much more pure ideals.

There is a war trope and truism that media touches upon occasionally... The gruff and embittered soldier defiantly making a statement that goes something like "Forget flags, Forget borders. I don't give a damn about any of that. I'm fighting for the guys standing next to me."

Yes, I do realize that this adage is a bit frayed and worn from being the end of the third act in far too many war movies. Yet that does not at all take away from the underlying truism.

Over the course of my life I have been fortunate enough to have lived in many states. Having military parents will do that. Still, even as well traveled ( at least compared to most others according to statistics ) the idea of "America", at least in terms that one might associate with any concept of patriotism remains something of an abstraction to me. The word does not invoke my passions nor my loyalty. At least not in the given context. I am simply not moved to feel any nationalistic fervor.

However if I define America in my own head and on my own terms? Placing the label upon my local community... my friends... my family... my neighbors... the sweet old woman who smiles at me while she checks out my groceries... the fairly arrogant doctor I am forced to visit for healthcare every so often... the kid who knocks on my door every two days, without fail, during the summer - asking if I need my lawn mowed?

Defined by those things, I find myself swelling with patriotism and loyalty. I find that which is selfless and is usually hidden underneath layers of socially imposed selfishness. That feeling then becomes a contagion. After all, there are people in this very thread who are far removed from my community but they have friends and family just like I do. They have sweet old women who check out their groceries. And to the people in this thread, their communities are just as important to them as mine is to me.

Through empathy I find my connections magnified and expanded and I realize...

I don't really give a damn about a flag, or some marble edifice in some far off city. But I do care, deeply, about the people standing next to me.

And, frankly put, I prefer my interpretation.

a reply to: DisinfoCom

Patriotism is loving your country all of the time and supporting your Government when it deserves it...Twain. I hate the Government, but love my country and our sovereignty.

a reply to: DisinfoCom

The only truth I know of patriotism is that it's a limousine ride
to hell. It shows up to a young mans address chauffuered by
whatever politician is ripe at the time. It is absolute proof
and full on evidence of mind control. It's the definition of obscurity.

a reply to: blupblup

Patriotism is an emotional attachment to a nation...

Ahhhhh yes... Wikipedia. Fortunately, I learned to think and act long before Wikipedia came along to tell me how to think in all its... ahem... wisdom.

For the sake of this argument, I will accept Wikipedia's definition, although even the content of the entry indicates that distinctions have been made between "false" patriotism and "true" patriotism. But for you, I will pretend that it doesn't.

So what word would you prefer to use for those who want what is best for their nation -- and her people -- as opposed to those who simply promote "their" country no matter what?

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Usually the two aren't mutually exclusive. If you're a self confessed patriot, you're more than likely a nationalist as well.

I strongly disagree, especially here in the land of free speech and protest which is constantly being shut down and shouted down by the critters in government (and elsewhere). Some of us understand that the noble principles this nation was founded upon are being compromised and violated and ignored left and right (pun intended) by those people running government... many people can make that distinction.

I love my Country.

I am willing to die for my Nation.

I am also willing to kill for it.

a reply to: DisinfoCom

You been reading my thread history?

It's a tool of control.

a reply to: Boadicea

We're not the only country with free speech or the right to protest. I'd even argue that we are less free than a lot of other countries in the world. The motto "land of the free and home of the brave" is yet another tool of indoctrination that incites patriotism and nationalism. You can't be a nationalist until you are a patriot first. Patriotism is the gateway to nationalism.

There are 2 kinds of patriotism:

The blind, near-instinctive following of government actions and dictates and excusing of any excesses done in it's name.

The love of one's country for it's land, it's people and it's traditions and culture. As a young child I was the first kind, as an adolescent the acute savagery of the Vietnam war made it plainly apparent that the state can and does go too far. Sadly, nearly all Nationalism today is branded as right-wing, racist, xenophobic, imperialistic and wrong. One can still love their country and even the ideals of it's governance while accepting as wrong the many evils done in it's name.

Slavery, genocide and expansionism have been undertaken by nearly every Nation on the planet. This doesn't mean the concept of Nations themselves are wrong, just that the wrong people make the decisions for the wrong reasons. While many today decry National borders are arbitrary and against human freedom I would argue that is not true. Nations are composed of peoples who band together in mutual interest and create governments to protect the citizens, their rights and their property.

Imagine a world with no Nations, no borders and consequently no laws. Only the strong will flourish in such an environment and those with the greatest numbers who are the most brutal and cunning will succeed in ruling over the rest. As much as I may despise the acts of government both present and past I still prefer it to the unknowns and excesses of anarchy. The concept of government by the people, for the people still rings true as the ideal model to strive for.

a reply to: Asktheanimals

Right on John Lennon!

a reply to: Asktheanimals

The world seemed to do fine for millions of years before we came along and started claiming everything as ours, building walls, making laws, etc.

Yes, those things come with advanced civilization, but so does war. Maybe that should speak to the current course we as a species have taken. NWO? We're already living in it. Our current society is the new order humans have brought to the world, before us there was no war, only natural order.

I think the whole NWO myth is to make us feel as though the way we live right now is how it's meant to be, that it is somehow normal, and that an "NWO" is coming to take away this "normalcy". It's anything but natural or normal, it goes against the natural order of things.

a reply to: Asktheanimals

Anarchy is the only way to make the ruling elite vulnerable.
Perhaps another type of vehicle in a demolition derby. They are
THE WICKED criminals of mankind. Keeping the carrot of freedom
dangling on a string and sending us and our young to die for it must
be quite entertaining for them. We will never be free until them
and their wicked ways are eradicated and forgotten. This is the true
history of the world. The world they have made and God did
not intend. This isn't preaching, it's the most obvious truth.

The problem is people are more afraid of the truth then they are
the real mobnsters.

a reply to: Boadicea

Patriotism is wanting the best for your nation, and therefore her people, and acting accordingly.

You mean culture.

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: Boadicea

We're not the only country with free speech or the right to protest.

Of course not. I never said otherwise.

I'd even argue that we are less free than a lot of other countries in the world.

I wouldn't argue; but it's neither here nor there in this context (defining patriotism vs. nationalism).

The motto "land of the free and home of the brave" is yet another tool of indoctrination that incites patriotism and nationalism.

For some, definitely. For others, it's the ideal.... and at one time, what people considered the reality.

You can't be a nationalist until you are a patriot first.

Not true. To take an extreme example, some folks are just ego-driven narcissists who have never and will never consider the needs/wants of anyone but themselves... they will promote their country just because it's "their" country, without a thought for what is good or right or best. Nationalists. Other people understand and promote those principles and practices that serve our nation and her people well, and refuse to accept less. Patriots. And some are somewhere in the middle and cannot always distinguish the difference, in large part thanks to the propaganda and misinformation and even disinfo shoved down our collective throats.

Patriotism is the gateway to nationalism.

Maybe... sometimes... but not of necessity.

a reply to: woodwardjnr

Slavery has been around long before there was an america. Even natives had a slavery system. Now it is illegal, which was a HOPE realized because of the constitution, despite the traditions of men. I did not know I was a racist until I got away from the people who raised me that way. The immorality of slavery was an evolution. Life is moving forward, not backwards. Patriotism is about the love of the land you shed blood for. Sometimes through birth and sometimes through war. We have not had Patriots since WW2.