Patriotism is a Fraud and You Have Been Duped

a reply to: NateTheAnimator

You mean culture.

No, I don't mean culture. I mean everyone, no matter what their race, creed or color... no matter what they celebrate... no matter where they live or work or play or love.

originally posted by: MALBOSIA

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: DisinfoCom

Man. It's just a shame that a bunch of fellas calling themselves patriots wrote some crap down on a piece of "paper" that secured your right to carry a soviet flag and scream Soviet names out in a fit of teenage angst.

It's a shame a bunch of guys who thought the promise of America meant not wearing chains and working for free so somebody else could reap the benefits of your work.

It's a shame we live in a country where many view non-conformist ideas and speech as the very fabric of the term patriot.

I congratulate you, sir, on being such an incredible patriot that you so willingly use the rights given to you to rail against the country you reside in. May you carry on with your patriotic endeavor for all your lifetime.

Except people do work for less than what a good life costs so others can live a godly life with servants.

And expressing his non conformist personality is what got him kick out of the program and likely hindered him from many of the possibilities that are open to only those that are conformed. Maybe he didnt end up in chains but he will also likely never be allowed off the sidelines.

Where did I say "work for less than what a good life costs?" I'm fairly certain I said "wear chains, work for free." Unless I managed to fat-finger a reply which was something other than what was in my head.

Nothing else you said changes the fact that many people view voicing a dissenting opinion as the very definition of patriotism.

a reply to: DisinfoCom

Thats always been a shock to me when I visit the states.

Your country is so militarised and full of propaganda.

And yeah can someone tell ,e how a F-15 is going to stop a terrorist attack in the stadium. ......you know without blowing the # out of 1000 odd spectators in the process.

a reply to: randyvs

The problem is people are more afraid of the truth then they are
the real mobnsters.

The truth is so abhorrent to many people that they will embrace tyranny rather than take responsibility, or even recognize for what they brought down upon themselves.

Get ready for the circus of horrors....right here in Mayberry RFD....right barney?

a reply to: Shamrock6

Nothing else you said changes the fact that many people view voicing a dissenting opinion as the very definition of patriotism.

I hope you don't mind if I piggyback off of this important point, since it fits hand-in-hand with what I came back to say:

"True" patriots are the FIRST to call out their government critters for violating the letter and spirit of the nation and its laws. Patriotism does not mean one always approves of government actions or believes that because a critters say so that it's true or good or right.

Who in their right mind would want a weak nation that cannot defend its-self, or its people?

Take a good look at what is happening around the world.

Propaganda is used by both sides. Why would a citizen propagandist want to weaken their nation?

There are just to many layers to this onion.

originally posted by:Boadicea[/post]


"True" patriots are the FIRST to call out their government critters for violating the letter and spirit of the nation and its laws. Patriotism does not mean one always approves of government actions or believes that because a critters say so that it's true or good or right.

Yes!! You hit the nail on the head. True patriots will pit themselves against the government when need arises. They stand in the cause of right and justice much like the "tank man" in Tiananmen square. That is real patriotism, not shouting USA! USA! when police lock down an entire city looking for a 19 year old who may have been involved in a bombing.

Well said.

originally posted by: Stormdancer777
Who in their right mind would want a weak nation that cannot defend its-self, or its people?

Take a good look at what is happening around the world.

Propaganda is used by both sides. Why would a citizen propagandist want to weaken their nation?

There are just to many layers to this onion.

The UK has no were near the militarization in its civilian way of life and our propaganda is a lot lighter plus we dont make kids sing the national athem or do stupid things like pledges of allegiance.

But we are not weak and certainly not defenceless.
History shows how bad things happen to countrys that attack us.


There being proud of you country but recogniseing its faults and then rar rar bull#.

Why am I reminded of that scene from "Harold & Kumar Escape from Guantanamo Bay" ?

You guys remember it, the one with George W. Bush... the character of Bush says,

"You don't have to trust your government to love your country..."

Or something like that.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

I think you put too much stock in the "noble savage" ideal espoused by Rousseau and others. Before there were countries there were tribes which often fought against each other for varying reasons. Random crime and killing happened (Utzi for example was murdered 5,000 years ago). Native American tribes participated in some very vicious fighting and cruel torture of captured enemies - they were not all at one with nature and each other. Yes, they were much closer to nature than we are today but they still suffered from human frailties of anger, revenge and envy. Modern civilization only seems to magnify the effects of the negative.

originally posted by: woodwardjnr
Nationalism and religion are the 2 biggest dividing forces left on global society. 2 things most of us have had little to no choice in.most people had no choic where they were born or what religion they follow. We still see how on ATS we have members who take credit for what their nation did in history, while editing out the bad parts.

sounds like you have some mental block going on... two things most of us had no choice in. either theres something in your psyche buried suppressing off world visitors among us... or just delusional... we have no choice in pigmentation or nationality before beng born. but the programming the OP mentions plants the seed as if people did... to justify the divide and hate and inequality. everyone has a choice to believe whatever unless brainwashed... but only the ignorant truely believe without absolute proof but even without absolutes in quantum physics etc?

pushing ideological delusions to engrandize acts of atrocity against others sharing the same struggle is an uncivilized thing to be doing. good thing I bought that dolphin saddle before they said thanks after the meal.. cause you know it may not have been that good... i mean who says thanks for all that posioning if they cant live to see another day... when a bunch of monkeys shaved wearing clothes kill a baby dolphin wanting photos of it and their selves in pig form?

yeah humanity come get some by evolving ffs. a mentally ill planet of course isnt going to recognize itself as mentally ill

originally posted by: Stormdancer777 Take a good look at what is happening around the world.

it spells imminent global war. with nukes.

a reply to: MystikMushroom

careful these sort of beliefs leads to extremist dictators and totalitarian regimes... ever wonder why nearly all mystics in the past said F you guys im outta here? then go away for however many days then come back with some messianism complex? now that ive had time away to think away from this human herding drama... I can see objectively oops you mean scientifically?

of course lil hitlers that is not good for humanity either... as science taken as truth when not yet proven as a solid repeatable phenomina within the exact conditions to which the phenomina found over and over again without a different outcome is the same as unquestioning faith or the sheepdom mentioned.

we are here and we are now... it doesnt have to be this way that fear, hate, greed, and ignorance that allays truth from learning and growing into something better... know a lil something? yay i can become a greedy miser and capitalize on it and screw everyone else cause i gots mine.

thats the grand delusion and illusion on humanity, and like the fish? bit it hook line and sinker. wear it as a hat in rome fly it in china as a wind sock but not in hate and control but my remember how silly we were? then ask if someone likes fish sticks.

life is about humor and fun... kids can organize games and fun without help they can sit quietly absorbed in discovery and creation. why do we tink tats ouror another beings doing instead of the nature of the species itself? instead of social darwinism? that becomes determinism, then eugenics and all that other social programming based on false science... just as bad as religion when put to practice because it is extremes...

and isnt terrorism what we are supposed to be fighting against? thats extremism for big toes sake... if youre towing lines of hate ask oneself why and were you there and well just ask yourself why youre holding a geneade that could go off at anytime called a heart... where you actually feel something for someone aside from all the falsehood taught... teaching and learning and wisdom can all be false so consider hats not ones own and walk a mile in their shoes... not literally as that would cause injury.

if you notice yound children do this... put on adult shoes and drag them around, then as adults we put on airs while filling those same shoes.

originally posted by: RoScoLaz4

originally posted by: Stormdancer777 Take a good look at what is happening around the world.

it spells imminent global war. with nukes.

looks that way, it will happen

a reply to: Boadicea

No, I don't mean culture. I mean everyone, no matter what their race, creed or color... no matter what they celebrate... no matter where they live or work or play or love.

As long as they are considered a citizen of the nation-state you preside in, right? I'm just curious as to what your definition of patriotism encompasses...

Some may survive, and nothing will change, they have been foretelling it since the beginning of the cycle.

Sometimes there is a happy ending, but every culture knows the story.

You know how the story ends.

a reply to: DisinfoCom

Right after your post was an ad for the next GOP debate. I found that rather funny.

Great post, really something they get over looked in our society. Creates a with us or against us mentality I think as well.

a reply to: NateTheAnimator

As long as they are considered a citizen of the nation-state you preside in, right?

Nope. I want the best for everyone everywhere... and I don't "preside" here or elsewhere.

I'm just curious as to what your definition of patriotism encompasses...

Since I have specifically referred to our nation, and since I have never known patriotism to refer to the world, but only to one's own nation, I'm not sure why you would be curious about my definition of patriotism. It is not my place or my responsibility to presume to dictate to other nations; it is my place and responsibility to be informed and involved in my nation.

In terms of what my patriotism encompases, I'm not sure if this is what you're asking, but my patriotism demands that our nation respects the inalienable natural rights of all people according to Natural Law, and therefore demands that our nation acts in ways that promote and empower and respect all people everywhere -- when, where and how they reasonably and appropiately can do so.

a reply to: Boadicea

natural law is animism and runs wholly counter to the notion of a civilized society... society is an atempt to evolve as a unity not devolve into archaics... its like a game of children not allowed to play as children trying to make a childhood of make believe in the adult world. de evolution in a civilized society only occurs with much catastophy like a child wanting attention throws a dinosaur toy onto two others chess board.

the time line most forward unless some so ignorant try to destroy the natural order of equalibrium peace and balance. why become an agent of chaos? the more intelligent species adapts which all life does in the face of adversity... so how is it one can hate exactly what they are and then wish to destroy it? with outdated forms of ignorance upgrades to make society less ignorant called study.

why wish such a thing? as that destruction so infantile means one would not even live to see it fullfiled, or at least wasted much of ones life being a separatist and not part of moving humanity forward into peace happiness and reason born from avoiding logical and emotional extremes in being or behavior

a reply to: olaru12

The truth is so abhorrent to many people that they will embrace tyranny rather than take responsibility, or even recognize for what they brought down upon themselves.

Get ready for the circus of horrors....right here in Mayberry RFD....right barney?

Although the Barney thing is a bit obscure I think
I agree.