Baddogma's Meta Cafe- Polite Discussions About Scientific Mysticism and General Weirdness

a reply to: Baddogma

In some mythologies, a distinction is made between what is called a "soul," and what is called a "spirit." I think its a valid distinction, as when the two words become interchangeable the concepts become the same.

In this, the soul is seen as the mind. In my own mythology, I lump in pretty much every product of our body. I do not believe this "survives" death, at least not in the majority of cases.

The "spirit" would be seen as some non-temporal aspect, however that may be defined by individual myth.

I suspect that this part relates back to the EM context. Something that is hard to specify, as different parts of the spectrum seem to manifest with a great variety. Added to that, different ranges can combine to yield more results.

Hard to pin down.. but if accurate, it would essentially imply that some part of the EM system exists without interference from time, and other parts exists solely within it.

Perhaps even as the derivatives of the non-temporal region acting up the temporal. where the speed of light denotes something that is slowing down and creating friction, energy, etc. like a bullet fired into ballistic gel. I suupose it would actually be the template for the bullet/gel. The bullet and gel just exist deeper within time.

At the least, it provides quick and easy explanations for things like quantum entanglement. But, it would also provide a framework for parts of us existing in the same way.

Now, all of this is extrapolated from unrelated research. So nothing "spiritual" is really involved. But, its the one of the current running hypotheses round these parts, and it would have incredibly interesting implications.

a reply to: Serdgiam
Yessiree Bob... the Egyptians had us sub divided into ....er Ka, Ba and ... *pffle* (breaks down and Googles...) Ren!

Soul, mind and spirit, sorta and out of order, but all such distinctions usually fizzle out to a general shrug and vague series of useless gesticulations, anyway.

I (and oodles of smarter "souls") ponder if some part of us is removed from physics as we know them, completely, and thus corresponding with the "timeless" elements you ponder?

The non temporal aspects are evident in all the reported phenomena ...

in particular one instance reminds me, and I half-heartedly put it in a thread, about a shade, appearing in a light-to-dark reversed negative image, that showed for some years to many, many people before the person whose image was seen was actually murdered and dumped at the rock where she had been standing in negative for years before.

But I need more education and bio-hardware before I can even attempt to articulate what that would mean about our reality or lack thereof.

Sigh... sorry for the tangent and I lost my own thread of thought... and know if I pull the thread too hard my whole ugly sweater will unravel...

a reply to: Baddogma

And agreed.. .something is subtly (or obviously, far more infrequently) vying for attention from us ... and why that would possibly be is the big question as well... and why KPBs explanation makes as much sense as anything else as to why energy beings would give a flying nooglefort for us... well, more sense than say us having a universal currency termed "soul" that is.

I just don't know. In the stories I know the beings from the Otherworld are often cross with humans, for the simple reason reason that we get to walk in the sun. We get to live out in public, we have better stuff that they want; somehow they got banished, or sent away. They seem to have a disdain for us in some stories, in others they are more merciful and try to help, in others they deliberately try to trick us into giving them something or hurting ourselves.

(Somewhat) Seriously, it's like us, many centuries from now when we've downloaded into the quantum substrate itself going to some disgusting little hellhole planet and subtly nudging certain primitive alien meatbags through their natural systems with vague hints instead of just spelling it out, plain and simple, to get what we came for.

There is no spelling out, plain and simple, from any of these 'messengers'. Why not? That's got to be the most irritating thing of all. Maybe they just don't care enough, or maybe they don't really know either. Have we ever bothered to explain ourselves to them?

I was thinking about Serdgiam's post about breathing teaching us about time like a ribbon, rather than the frame by frame way we do. Maybe time isn't the same to them; they wonder why we vanish and change so much. I really don't know, but my overall sense from stories is that they're generally p'ed off because we've got what they want. I don't know if that is specifically a soul, more like we took their place, but they're envious of something.

a reply to: beansidhe

Aye, folklore definitely has more answers about the unseen than science will any time soon (as far as we know in the common knowledge pool, and I likely could keep qualifying).

There are likely quite a number of different unseen things with different qualities and agendas, just to keep it even more confusing.

But yeah, that envy woven through so much folklore... so much human agenda showing, but likely deeper, truer things as well.

Much of the wee folk getting banished comes from the Church when they supplanted the old ways ...

but man, I love those folk stories about the land of the Fay being here with us, but just a bit "off" like finding doors behind our cupboards and in thickets and such. I thoroughly enjoyed Rev Kirk's Secret Commonwealth.

I also read this fascinating book called "Of Water and Spirit" by an African shaman, Malidoma Some, some years ago and it had accounts of entering little households through doors in rocks when he was a child ...along with some descriptions of initiation rituals where he swears they jumped through a ritual drum skin into another realm where we were all spirit complexes made up of all our ancestors with tendrils one could ride through time-space.. .heh.. .well, I found it effecting and charming.

He also asserts he walked with his grandfathers dead corpse home for burial, and the corpse walked with him, to be clear. He spoke at my Anthro dept and I found him ...sane and engaging. Who knows, heh.

a reply to: Baddogma

This is why folklore is so incredibly valuable because if you can pick it apart, bit by bit, you can find the meaning. So kind of like your point there about about different types of things being here with different agendas. No, no I'm not so sure. I think we lump all our 'weird' together and try to make sense of that when really it just all got woven together into one large tartan. It shouldn't be like that.
I mean by that, that some stories are definitely stories of the stars, without doubt. Take the Kelpies, for example. they are fairy horses, with long stories about them pretending to be real horses, only stronger. If you see one and try to ride it, they'll take you straight to the shore and then dive down into the water. You can't get off them and so you drown.
The Kelpies are famous here, we even had the most beautiful sculptures made of them in Falkirk.



The Picts told that story, we know that because they carved Kelpies onto their stones:





You can see that this is just Scorpio, really:



We didn't ever have scorpions, Picts didn't know what they were (probably) so we wouldn't have likened the constellation to that. Anyway, the sun rises in Scorpio in November, as the constellation starts to disappear under the horizon and as it plummets, our floods start.

Anyway, that's the long winded way of explaining what I'm sure is bleeding obvious to you, but still - if we can figure out which stories are star stories, which are maybe meteors or comets (dragons), which ones are cautionary tales (watch out for rapey men), which ones are controlling stories from the church - we should be left with those which don't fit into any pots or boxes. And those quite often concern the dead. My grandfather certainly would agree with your visiting shaman, about seeing the dead walk before they get buried. My mother saw her MIBs when she got a message of death over the phone.

a reply to: beansidhe

I've always loved Kelpies... and always wondered what possible poignant info could be encoded in that 'plunge rider in it's home water and drown them' aspect, and now I know.. .gracious thanks, m'lady.

And be quite thankful you've no scorpions... nasty buggers.

As an aside that just popped up, I was stung by one in my nether regions when I picked up a wet swimsuit from my floor, and it felt like a hot knitting needle, and I stumbled to the room next to mine, flopped onto bed and went into mild convulsive twitching as the neuro-toxin went to work, and then I had a really strange experience (sigh, again... I know) where I dreamt I was a little critter scuttling abount surrealistic desert environs (like combination of Monument Valley AZ and the great Arabian waste) and when I awoke I went straight into my cluttered room, directly to a particular pile of paper (and the room was cluttered) and found the little bugger sitting there.. .I put it in a jar and then realized I should've had no idea where it was?

How did I know where in a very cluttered, large bedroom (20 x 15 ') the little guy was hiding?

Anyway... thanks for the kelpies/scorpios!

a reply to: Baddogma


Sorry for laughing, that was probably pretty sore.
If it makes you feel better, I was once arse-gouged by a parrot.

My only guess is that psi will one day be agreed to just be part of being human, and some of us are quite good at it and some of us aren't. Maybe it was a Neanderthal speciality and we're slowly breeding out the ability?
Or maybe it's way older than Neanderthal and more apey. There's no denying that dogs have it in abundance - my dog knows if I even think about going out and he's ready to go at the door.
I like the Rev Kirk too, his stories of time-shift and a parallel world is eerily close to modern hypotheses of a multiverse. Only people will listen when Professor X announces his space findings in terms of rays, waves and particles - nobody cares when it's a long dead Scottish minister using terms like sidhe, elves and astrals.
It's all in the name, really.

Speaking of Kirk, where's Mr Bear? I was growing very fond of him. I hope he's ok and not angered the Void Lords...

a reply to: beansidhe

I wouldn't have mentioned the scorpion groin sting if I didn't think it funny (in retrospect) too.

And no, I don't feel better picturing some punky Scottish lass getting her arse gored by a creepy parrot... though I'm positive you could set up a website for that and get some fervent followers.

And of course, the modern findings are mirroring the old tales... it was quite a surprise to realize that early on in my explorations... deeply weird world we inhabit, and it's mundane normality just makes it more so.

And yuppers.. .I'll be glad to hear from Kev again... I have no way to check on him besides electronic means, but if any OBEers wanna give it a shot, I'm all ears (or eyes).

eta: yay, KPB's fine...

a reply to: Baddogma

I'm sure Kevin's alright even if the Kundalini crazy train started up again, but hopefully he'll show up soon regardless.

Here for you my favourite ATS weirdos, the best, weirdest Valentines Day song from the weirdest Mike Patton:

Weird wishes, for a weird day from weird me!

a reply to: Baddogma
Better the butt than the boy parts. That's all I can say.

a reply to: Skid Mark

Actually, the sting was and inch and a half from the boy part, and if I had been "swinging" a different direction, it would've caught it... thinking about it, the little guy was likely just defending himself against the perceived snake lunging at him.

I wish it had been my butt, tho. It still hurt a whole lot.

Poison control was pragmatic/funny ... I was young and it was a bark scorpion, the sometimes deadly, smaller sort, and so called poison control, who told me if I could call in, I'd likely survive it... and they were correct.

Oh and Kev did contact me and told me to relax... heh, must've been the Kabbalah that turned me into a Jewish mom...

and funny Peeps.. .same back atcha... one of my family names is Valentine, but I hate this holiday... but nice sentiment.

a reply to: johnb

I don''t understand all the conditions under which "free electrons" are suitable for powering high strangeness.
I wish that I did.

Dust and static charge seem to be factors.

While massive power lines don't.. I suppose it's due to those being AC.. that must destroy the suitability.

There must be other factors in Florida, relevant to High Strangeness, just not around Lost Girl. Or maybe she's a "negga psychic" ;-)

Kev

a reply to: beansidhe

Human bodies have the potential to be connected to nearly every last thing in existence..no I know some folks are drunk on astrological correspondences---and that's cool--it's not my personal thing. But it's also true that the human body and the "tree of life" are one and the same thing.

A lot of folks aren't into the inner alchemy thing.. as it's considered "left hand path" and "evil" by the ignorant. But consider the Earth like the rind on an orange.. by entering the rind, you can transit to any point on the rind whatsoever.. and there are also hidden pathways in the rind, that connect to the very core of existence.

Fae folk and others like them do not have bodies which plug them into "everything".

There is no higher honor, than to be human.. in a manner of speaking.. I know that "we" don't see it most of the time.. but all the critters do.. they tend to be aspects of a few "elements", while we have access to them all... in theory at least.

So yes.. absolutely correct 100% --- it's jealousy.

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Racist.

(Lord, kidding kiddies... just giddy I didn't kill off another kind mystic I befriended.)

Anyway, hello Kev and glad to see you.

I've read some parapsychologists who think high power power lines do factor in, along with underground streams, but also admit I think they're frequently wrong and am not impressed with methodology.

a reply to: Baddogma

Ok, a little status report.

I'm still shaking like a leaf in a hurricane, but since I'm properly liminal this time around, it's not really a bother.. other than I'm rather weak.. all my bodies extra resources are being consumed to maintain the required conditions.

No glowing or massive visions or "siddhis" this time around.. and I didn't expect this to be happening again.. the ancient stories and more recent stories from somewhat educated "yogi" state that it can resurge.

It was after the first time around that I realized that we live in a "pot hole Universe", and that in a sense this entire Universe has aware/sentient/living aspects to it.. on some level at least, and is "pining" to be re-united with the "Main Reality".

Strangely enough, our "Pot Hole Universe" chooses to do this through strange means.. in part at least "through us".

So just like last time, at the end at least, I come face to face with a massive *something*, which views ever last iota of our "Universe" as "It's" body.. it barely recognizes boundaries of individual life forms as having any significance.. "It's" aware that I'm a body here.. and honors most of the restrictions this body places on it.. my "free will" so to speak... though "free will" is dicey of course.. as it includes ALL of my body, and all thing things which make it up, not just those small number of neutrons which form our "social conscious self". That's the thing people miss.

For example, there is ONE muscle in the body, without which Kundalini will not "arise". If that one muscle is tense, it won't happen.. as that muscle being "tense" counts as "free will" not "inviting the process" to occur.

So as some have said.. it's "prime directive" on the most ridiculous scale.

Yesterday during the peak of it (it's slightly subsided today), I had thought about playing a trick on BD, as he'd like that sort of thing.. I was looking that direction, and thinking about what to do, when I got this very slightly "disapproving" sense, that---that was not to be allowed. I had the definite knowledge, that though the awareness filling me indwelt every living thing and could "in theory" do whatever "It wanted".. that's rather the point.. "It" IS CURRENTLY doing exactly what it wanted.. and doesn't need any help in the Kitchen.

Well anyway.. in a sense I couldn't be more metaphysical if I wanted to be.. I'm in a state of continuous connection.. some might call it a "mana state" or "mana personality".

I would suppose that most people would want me to do stupid pet tricks, and as I stated, I had thought about it.

But to summarize.. in a certain sense, all that our Lady wants, is to not feel lonely.. She's happy to be feeling a bit more restored to Her previous state before this "Pot Hole Universe" was formed.. and she's doing it through my body, nervous system, brain, and all attendant "micro environments".

I suspect when the alignment slips, or if the nutrient feed of multiple levels gives out, that the effect shaking my body will cease again for maybe a number of years again.

Supposedly, there were Sages at one time, who walked around this for a lifetime once it began.. but I find that doubtful.. as if there had been these truly great ones (like the generation of 100 Rishis) then one would think that they would have left a strong and enduring mark upon the world--- and maybe they did for a while-- but it doesn't seem that way these days..

Well I need to go and rest. The strain is considerable.

Kev

a reply to: Baddogma

Oh no! I bet you were extra careful putting shorts on after that.

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Highly interesting. And glad it's a manageable seeming buzz.

Likely totally coincidental, (not that I'm buying it but have to appear to attempt rationality) but my computer screen did something it has never done and I still have trouble figuring out how it could've, especially with a relatively new graphics card, but the monitor had interference and then went to static and then froze... the static interference froze, I mean, so I had to reboot... anyway, first time and it happened yesterday.

Also other electronic weirdness that have never happened before, and things like the calculator attached to the 'puter getting numbers spelling messages when I was pretty sure I hadn't keyed it... and I looked for trojans, etc., and .. .well, I better shut up, as it's likely unrelated and thus a tad embarrassing to connect... but...

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

And that reply is absolutely fascinating as well... thank you for that... it's, again, a bit like other views I've heard but from a different reference frame, heck, you could say it was like the early Christians explaining the Fae were jealous of our "closeness to God, or the "quality of our souls" both different than yours, but similar in concept.

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Ah, you're ok, it's a Valentine's miracle.
Good job you appeased the saint, Peeple, with some Mike Patton.

It is like jealousy, isn't it? That's what it feels like. So, if we're plugged in, and they're not...what would they do differently if they were us? Why do they want to access all the elements?
Imagine another being had everything you yearned for - and they didn't even know it, they squandered their time and took it all for granted. They must despise us.

Anyway, your views are always gratefully received by me, I like your take on things. What on earth were you doing, some kind of yoga? Be careful with that, it sounds terrifying. Think I'll leave that kind of stuff to shamans who know what they're doing (ie you, not me )

Also, our body is the tree of life...that rings a dusty bell from somewhere, but I can't think where.