Baddogma's Meta Cafe- Polite Discussions About Scientific Mysticism and General Weirdness

a reply to: beansidhe

So do you know why all the Hindu Gods are blue skinned and most have nautical themes in their iconography?

Any blue skinned Celtic deities?

Kev

a reply to: Bybyots

Well in all fairness...some Sioux Indians have DNA from Ghenghis Khan, for what thats worth.

And Prenatal testosterone is epigenetically related to autism including aspergers syndrome...and it's highly suspected that testosterone and other hormones are part of the nectar cycle and "Kundalini".

But you seem more interested in "mystical information" being an epigenetic key to unlock DNA
Which I view as quasi brilliant. (and partly correct as how you think unlocks hormone and neuropeptide sequences).

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Ya, Beira:

Beira is the name given by 20th-century folklorist Donald Alexander Mackenzie to the Cailleach Bheur, the personification of winter and the mother of all the gods and goddesses in Scottish mythology.[1] She is associated with one of the Celtic creation myths (which usually pertain to local land features) and bears a similar role to Gaea in Greek mythology and Jord in Norse mythology.

According to Mackenzie, Beira was a one-eyed giantess with white hair, dark blue skin, and rust-colored teeth. She built the mountains of Scotland using a magic hammer, and Loch Ness was created when Beira transformed her negligent maid Nessa into a river, which broke loose and made the loch. Ben Nevis was her "mountain throne". The longest night of the year marked the end of her reign as Queen of Winter, at which time she visited the Well of Youth and, after drinking its magic water, grew younger day by day.

Link

Goddess of winter? Sounds like my kind of deity!

a reply to: Serdgiam

I don't find the words soul and spirit (as in human spirit) technically precise enough....but yes From my observations "souls" are quite temporary...you can even generate 2-3 in a single life. And yes...there are threads in "Overworld" which may as well be classified like Atman or "High selves" or "spirit"...but humans don't have a 1 for 1 mapping that I'm aware of...humans are colony creatures. Some seem to individuate out of that system sometimes...but it's just one part of how things work....not some grand plan or destiny.

Everything dies...even God.

Kev

a reply to: beansidhe

The water of Astrology you think?

*Hint*

Kev

originally posted by: Baddogma
a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

And that reply is absolutely fascinating as well... thank you for that... it's, again, a bit like other views I've heard but from a different reference frame, heck, you could say it was like the early Christians explaining the Fae were jealous of our "closeness to God, or the "quality of our souls" both different than yours, but similar in concept.

Well the Fae ArchTulpa (their gods) were in decline...fewer soul/god makers feeding them existence than the Roman Psyop which both pacified rebellious Jews but reincarnated an old ArchTulpa into Jehovah.

And did you know that not only can a space imp possess some Tulpas, but on rare occasions a Void Lord does too.

Kev

a reply to: beansidhe

I haven't done any form of yoga or spiritual practice for years. I know how this sounds...but for me at least....no reason to....I served my function.

The reason for the resurgence? I regained sufficient system resources...was happy...well adjusted...all micro environments talking to each other...and also by accident relaxed the "magic muscle" without realizing it....

And since all the pathways had previously been built....it just kicked in. Nothing could have been further from my mind.

But "this" (or a better variant of it) may be what most humans had automatically "before the fall"
(before agriculture and patriarchy started the beginning of the end of 'wholesome' mankind.

Kev

a reply to: MystikMushroom

Thanks for the reference....

So I ask you...why blue skin? And -100 points : for saying cold or ice or winter.

I'd love Kantz to reply too.

When I learned the probable answer it blew me away.

A super bible scholar might know too.

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Well, tradition holds that "blue" is a divine color that represents infinity or expansiveness. Non traditionally I've heard ancient alien people claim that alien visitors (and possible DNA source for a missing race of man) had another element instead of iron in their blood, causing them to have blue skin, instead of pink-ish/red like our iron-containing blood.

Perhaps both accounts are melded together. Beings with blue skin claimed to be "Gods" with infinite wisdom and knowledge, and the primitive peoples built myths and stories about their blue color to accommodate that.

Interesting though that the color blue has a fairly consistent meaning throughout cultures worldwide.

a reply to: MystikMushroom

The "firmament above" was an ocean. Many ancients apparently believed Earth was covered by a giant crystal dome which kept the water out. Of course other crystal spheres carried planets and stars (reference: "the music of the spheres").

That's why "non-ocean gods" like Shiva have iconography of tridents, shells, sea life" etc.

I had this explained to me by a very good scholar.

I believe it.

Now metaphorically...some of that other stuff, sure.

But originally way back...most of our mysticism and religion came from simple errors like this.

That's why I throw out 90% of it.

Kev

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
a reply to: MystikMushroom

Many ancients apparently believed Earth was covered by a giant crystal dome which kept the water out. Of course other crystal spheres carried planets and stars (reference: "the music of the spheres").

Which many ancients?

a reply to: zazzafrazz

Well apparently semitic ones. That's a big hunk. Maybe the subcontinent of India.

I'm putting this out there for discussion. I don't claim to be anything approaching a real mythologist.

Mythology is a secondary interest of mine.

Kev

hey folks again!
you have a lot new stuff going on here.... and very interesting stuff guys!

had to post again as my curiosity will not leave me alone, thank you all for that! : )

I would like to say that after reading many of your threads Kantz, I have wandered a lot about what your spiritual beliefs are or if you even have them.

Oh, was I surprised when you showed up here! Thanks for sharing!

I would not mind at all if you would write something about the stuff you mentioned BD about in your last post. Also just a short question. Who build the pyramids and the sphinx in your opinion? I sometimes wondered what you would say to this question? : )

I would like to ask something Kev and Kantz. What is your end-goal? Why are you doing what you are doing with meditation or spirituality or label it whatever you want. Do you have a final objective?

For me it is union. As I understand it currently at the moment, this takes two steps. Realization of our real Self and after that, realization of All or complete union with It. This is my grand and final objective, but I dunno where experiences will lead me so I am not sticking to any religious mindset and I am just rather working on myself.

What about you guys? Just curious...

Also Kev. is it maybe the tongue?
....The muscle you mentioned : )



and also something nice I watched recently and I think it is a nice vid to share considering the thread:
www.youtube.com...

It warmed my heart. I bet it does the same for you!?
Any opinions about how this is possible?

a reply to: UniFinity

I can answer quite simply for me.

I had "paranormal experience" in the womb...or at least appeared to. It certainly could have simply been early unusual brain development (the aspbergers). I had plenty of powerful anomalous experiences over the years.

I also suffered a great deal the first 30 or so years of my life. A lot of beatings and abuse.

So I had 2 Very strong motivations:

1) What's with all the anomalous stuff?
2) Are humans and God evil?

Both of these pushed me to put a 100% effort into finding answers to these and related questions.

So I pushed and pushed and pushed, until I got my answers, then I retired.

As it turned out, I didn't get even one answer that I was hoping for.

But I can't deny what I found...(Not that I can easily prove one word to anyone else. It's for me...that's how this stuff works...it generally can't be passed on).

Now some aspects of "Kundalini" could probably be proved in a lab...but the process is too erratic and nobody well funded cares to try.

I got my answers and I'm at peace. That was my goal.

I'd rather not be selfish and to give something back, but Maybe nothing more than helping a few animals and some homeless may be it.

In my view the "Universe" does what it wants with us and the best we can do is work together and try to make lemonaid from the many lemons.

If someday that mystical thirst drives you to take extreme actions...then maybe you will windup like me. I leave it to you to decide if that is good or not.

As for the tongue...if you want to better taste any "amritt" sure...I never found it important myself.

My advice?

Try to have a happy and productive life...and only if you have no other choice....then do what you are compelled to do.

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Flat Earth?

Hmmmm

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Flat Earth?

Hmmmm

I'm not precisely sure how long it was suspected the Earth was not flat. But the mistaken belief about the "cosmic ocean" may have straddled both pre and post flat earth error.

I'm getting a bit curious about how verifiable that one scholars claim actually is....He's been correct many times...but he's not always correct. (he was my first teacher).

Metaphorically of course, it seems the Universe is filled with superconducting webs of filaments...of dark matter...there are computer models for it.
That may be metaphorically "watery".

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

thanks, but no thanks with your advice, it is no good for me, I am not after productive or happy, just the truth about real Self : )

But it is great to hear you got the answers and thanks a lot for sharing bits of them in here!

Kev I wander, what do you think about Ramana Maharshi for instance. Did you hear about him?
For me he was one of the last real public saints, with full and complete understanding and experiences of our reality in my opinion - true yoga! But I have the feeling from your past writings you are not fond of such people due to connections with religion and religion being 95% crap : )

But what he was on about was not religion but something else entirely in my opinion. But people are overlooking this in general due to lack of understanding of what he teaches. But you should get him from what I know about you from all past posts. So...if you read about him...
What do you think?

...just wandering and interested in your opinion, just to make it clear. No teacher or advices.

I know my next step and a way to move forward with my pursuits. After learning a lot from this thread and other sources I have devised my plan and what to do for now. And so far it is going awesome.

(dang it, so the tonique was not it!? For me it is very hard to relax it completely in meditation ... it likes to wiggle)

: )

originally posted by: zazzafrazz

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
a reply to: MystikMushroom

Many ancients apparently believed Earth was covered by a giant crystal dome which kept the water out. Of course other crystal spheres carried planets and stars (reference: "the music of the spheres").

Which many ancients?

Ok.. I did 10 minutes of research on this topic, to include both the infamous wikipediaa and other online stuff, and at least 3 quotes from honest to god real books.

Upon a surface examination my teachers words about firmaments and cosmic waters are easily verified, and that yes, indeed, it seems that a large majority of ancient peoples believed something of this sort... I'm sure that a deeper look would be required to show that MOST ancient peoples believed this.. but it looks like a large chunk did from just this cursory look.

Now.. I suppose the remaining issue is whether "gods" were "blue" to show a watery metaphor.. as they come from the heavens and the heavens are watery. However the fact that various Hindu gods are surrounded by watery metaphors
such as Shiva and Laxmi are surrounded by watery metaphors, this seems quite likely:

www.insurat.com...
www.insurat.com...

Ok, here is the brief look at supporting documentation about firmaments above and waters above and waters in general,
broken down by culture.. and these are just a smattering of large cultures:

Firmament Above
en.wikipedia.org...
Like most ancient peoples, the Hebrews believed the sky was a solid dome with the Sun, Moon and stars embedded in it.[7] According to The Jewish Encyclopedia:

Cosmic Waters Above and/or Elsewhere
www.webpages.uidaho.edu...

Hebrews
The Hebrews regarded the earth as a plain or a hill figured like a hemisphere, swimming on water. Over this is arched the solid vault of heaven. To this vault are fastened the lights, the stars. So slight is this elevation that birds may rise to it and fly along its expanse.[8]

Hindu
In her new translation of the Rig-veda, Wendy O'Flaherty says that the ancient Hindus believed that "the earth was spread upon the cosmic waters" and that these primeval oceans "surrounded heaven and earth, separating the dwelling-place of men and gods...."(19)
(19) The Rig-veda (trans. O'Flaherty), pp. 32, 29.

Celtic
After the sky fell in on the Celts, the next event they feared was that the seas would come rushing in from all directions. (20)
20. Charles Squire, Celtic Myth and Legend, p. 174.

Babylonian
In the Babylonian creation epicEnuma Elish, the sky is made from the body of Tiamat, the goddess of watery chaos. The victorious god Marduk splits "her like a shellfish into two parts: half of her he set up and ceiled it as sky, pulled down the bar and posted guards. He bade them to allow not her waters to escape." (21)
21. Ancient Near Eastern Texts, p. 67, 2nd col.

Native American
www.legendsofamerica.com...

Seems awfully credible to me. Your mileage may vary.

Kev

a reply to: UniFinity

Here's the deal.. and i'm talking to you like you were my kid brother here.

If "God" or "god" or even "parts of the Universe are sentient" and you wish to "merge your consciousness" with these "divinities", then I have bad news for you. These "Divinities" would have to wish to participate in your plan, right?

If "they do", then you are set.

If "they don't", then nothing you can do will be worth anything.

You can't even prove to yourself that they exist.

People treat these (in my view) "sentient laws of nature" like crap.. just thinking they can bull-# their way into some sort of symbiotic relationship with them, without knowing how, and assume their approval.

Now let's say that you wish to avoid these inconvenient "facts".

If you want a get out of jail free card, you just turn into a new ager, you can just start believing junk about how you have an all-powerful "higher self" that is yearning to give you unlimited power and enlightenment.

Or in the Eastern systems call it a Jiva-Atman or whatever you like.

But even in that case, hopefully you know you are deluding yourself.. you are assuming a great deal.. that you have this magical "higher self" and that it's like a genies lamp, yearning to deify you.

If you feed this delusion, you will eventually wind up like I did.. you will create this super-powerful tulpa and/or hatch a "cosmic child", who will then leave you with nothing. Really I'm not sure there is a difference between the two, and which was ultimately true.

I have to admit here, that I'm not 100% certain which I did. A total skeptic (and that's good too) might even say that I deluded myself and then got over it.

In any case, no matter how you look at it, you are screwed.

Now yes, you'd no doubt experience all sort of wonderful and miraculous seeming things.. which may or may not be "miraculous".

And your brain and body would be modified for life.. you MIGHT get all these benefits from the experience..

The reason that I always go back to the Kundalini & Shamanistic model, is that it "works around" all the "issues" with any of the other methods.

For me at least, unless I'm having transient whole body epileptic seizures that last for years at a time.. I can't deny *something* powerful is happening in my physical body in terms of Kundalini.

And the reason for the Shamanistic model, is due to my deep studies about how the brain works, lots of sciences, and lots of experiences. Not to mention I'm Sioux Indian and also the UFO research I did led me to the same place.

Finally, without the shaman model I'd have died.. as only the Liminal state can protect me from going off the deep end, while kundalini and other things are doing what they wish with me. It all fits together.. one vast perfect tableau.

That's why I'm satisfied for myself. I can't find one single dot contrary to the Kundalini/Shamanistic model, unless I'm totally insane with no connection with reality, or I'm trapped as a brain in a jar.. or something like that.

But even if those are true.. I'm hoping to retire in 7 years.. I've got a great career.. an awesome wife and life, and all that hunger is sated. I expect to die, and that's pretty much it, and I feel so happy about that. I do have a terrible health problem.. might only live 10 years more.. but so what? I know who I am, and death is not something bad for me.

What most people do is to pick some "path" and then delude themselves for most of their lifetime.. they put so much into it that they then can't "back-out" without having thrown their life away.

I've done my 100% best and I have no expectations of any kind. The gnawing hunger to know reality seems very close to fully healed. I'm happy.

I hope you got something out of all that text.

Love,

Kevin

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

thanks a lot, brother from another mother!

: )

Also maybe I should be clearer about a few things, maybe they could even help you or others a bit. and also all this is just an opinion:
- in reality there is no "individual I" or what we call "enlightenment"
- no samsara or nirvana,
- I do not want to merge with any divinities like Brahma, etc...
- but with the truth
- the truth is realized in silence
- if we take a metaphor often used in religions: father, son and the holy spirit. I am after the holy spirit or Tao. Father in this case would be the first critter or Brahma and the son are all of us and every other living beings, SWMBO included.

heh well I don't know why, but I just wanted to say this.

Also I feel happy for you, even though you have a lot of problems, but you have also some answers. Some don't even have that.
You did a great job with your life, from what it looks like at least. You have given it all you got and please don't be sad about dying, you know the truth about it and it is not the end. Just another beginning. Instead of grim thoughts like dying and of suffering in the past, enjoy the present moment and make the best of it.

And I am sure you already know and do that...

Best of wishes to you and your wife and pups...for all the years to come! ... Lets hope 20 at least! : )