Baddogma's Meta Cafe- Polite Discussions About Scientific Mysticism and General Weirdness

a reply to: Kelly PrettyBear

The Cailleach (hag) is only the Goddess in her winter form; she is blue in MacKenzie's version because of the cold. Her clothes are white because she is the first mother - she has no clan tartan. In the summer she is replaced by Bride (or Bridget), a younger, more beautiful version who brings warmth and abundance. She reigns from Hallowe'en until Beltane (May Day), when Bride turns her back into stone.



I don't know if the Celts thought that the sky was water, there's no indication anywhere that they did, but then none that they didn't either. The firmamanet idea was more of a biblical Hebrew one, I think. In Scotland and Ireland at winter, the land is bare, the sky is an icy blue or grey as is the water. I always thought her skin was just to explain the cold as Mystik said, because it's not in every story.

eta: Your teacher is suggesting that there was a uniformity of belief across thousands of years and thousands of miles, and that there was a shared understanding of how the universe (or our world, certainly) operated. This is the antithesis of what I believe, in fact he's my nemesis.

Although the Celts came across Europe, for centuries many families were quite isolated in Scotland and Ireland. They barely travelled outside their own village. That's why I love to compare stories from other cultures and find that they are describing, in vastly different ways, the same things or experiences. So whilst our experiences are all surprisingly similiar - we live on a finite Earth - our stories for explaining them are vastly different.

a reply to: beansidhe

Thanks for all that information. As you saw from my own 10 minutes of research, it does seem that most of the rest of the world did believe some sort of watery heaven existed, and there was that one Celtic reference:

Celtic
After the sky fell in on the Celts, the next event they feared was that the seas would come rushing in from all directions. (20)
20. Charles Squire, Celtic Myth and Legend, p. 174.

I'm sure I could find more from the Celts.. it's like the Bible.. I can prove re-incarnation with it, and you can prove one life only with it say!

As for my teacher being your "enemy", well two things on that;

One: I wound up disagreeing with more than 50% of what he said after I learned to think for myself, so I have no problem with you disagreeing with him, and

Two: He had Kundalini on the brain.. he thought that Understanding Kundalini would fix all of man's ills.. and that it was present in every human and thus was one of the major impulses behind all myth.

Well on #2 I came to radically disagree with him too. Yes, Serpents are EVERYWHERE in myth around the world, but that doesn't necessarily map to Kundalini.

Yes, Kundalini CAN really modify a person.. but 19 times in 20 (because people don't understand it correctly) it doesn't help a person, it hurts a person.

But yes, I'd have to agree.. the potential for it is lurking in every person.. and it HAS influenced the entire world.. it's BIOLOGICAL in great part.. there is no denying it.

And finally from me to you.. I love Celtic/Fae lore.. and if it only matches up with the Trickster a bit (which is Universal) and nothing more.. I have nothing to prove to you.

For myself, I discard more than 90% of global myth as being misunderstood, and people in general don't want to "interpret it right"; they want to interpret it in a way which comforts them (not saying you are doing that).

So I can't get to excited about myth.. it's fascinating and educational, but only if you already know the answer ahead of time.

Kev

a reply to: UniFinity

I never know what gender a poster is. It often feels to me that a person is female if they are spiritual. And I've had bad experiences when I try to ascertain more personal information about a person without asking.. yet another reason why I find "Siddhis" ill-advised.

As for your reply..

Yes, "all of us" are indeed the "son", including SWMBO. I've said multiple times that "She" is the human "Group soul". With metaphysics the appearance of gender gets funky too. The fact is, that finding "pure" "metaphysical gender" is rather uncommon.. it's all a metaphor anyway..but with some "truth" to it.

I'm glad that you just wish to know the truth.

I'd say that it's possible to know much of the truth anyway, if you give it your all.

It worked for me, to my satisfaction anyway.

I could 100% help you get much closer, but the problem there, is that I'm not a guru, and I am not part of any support system, so it would be madness for me to help anyone follow the path that I did.

For example, the sure-fire way to "know the truth" is the same sure fire way to become hopelessly insane for years, without that support system.

The only reason that I'll tell it to you, is that you and others who are borderline crazy due to HAVING TO KNOW THE TRUTH will find one foolish way or another to find the truth.. you have a form of Cosmic Toxic Plasmosis after all..

Lean into the curve. Throw gas on the fire. Encourage the thirst. Encourage it to become stronger.. then you will discover what the source of it truly is.. but you will go gibbering insane if you do that.. I did.

Took me many years to determine my error and how to fix it.

But if you look at it.. this is an obvious thing to do, in a more sane way, and it's even part of the 8 Limbs of Yoga.

You see, service to others and the way of the heart is a way to throw out "bait" for the inner essence that wishes to express.. as when you serve others, you are also serving "IT".

When you serve others, you are aligning Micro-environments.

When you serve others, you stop looking at "yourself" which is very dangerous.

But all spiritual activity is designed to awaken Kundalini.. so that the Universe can use you to experience itself more fully.

Spiritual experience is for Kundalini and the Universe and not for "us".. though we do get a contact high.. and Kundalini does seem to be an "evolutionary energy in man". Eventually the human race does benefit.

Old Gopi Krishna was a true genius in his way..in part.

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Hi there, I think we'd need the passage to see what context that was in, what story Squire was referring to, blah de blah blah an' all the rest.

I see, he (your teacher) thought all serpent metaphor was related to Kundalini? Ah, got you. I'd say I agree with you then, he's talking mince.
I just don't know enough about it to have a sensible conversation with you, so I'll go away and read up on it. What I can do is present you with a pile of Celtic tricksters, for your deliberation, but it'll have to be in a while, I've got to go out.

For myself, I discard more than 90% of global myth as being misunderstood, and people in general don't want to "interpret it right"; they want to interpret it in a way which comforts them (not saying you are doing that). So I can't get to excited about myth.. it's fascinating and educational, but only if you already know the answer ahead of time.

I will never stop being excited my myth, because when you get that one story and finally, after months of thinking, you get it in the context in which it was written, and it is incredible -nothing like it. I love it.

No, no, you have nothing to prove to me, not ever. I don't expect answers from you, I just like hearing your point of view from across the water. Hope all is good with you today, Mr Bear.

B x

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Hmmm... how can you remain so interesting, sir? I'm perusing your posts and nodding along and am still stuck on the blue skin question ... so before it get's lost, what's your take?

I doubt it's O2 deprivation... it would be sadly pertinent if our greatest spiritual idols were basically oxygen starved to the point of animalistic existence...

a reply to: Baddogma

I upturned a lot of stones in my search.

It's as I said....the cosmic ocean metaphor seems the correct one.

Now is there really something like an ocean?

Well physics could be consulted in various ways for a metaphor like I already did...

It's amenable to Google of you wish to prove or disprove.

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Well it is a kind of joke that when many scots go on a 2 week holiday it takes the first week to just turn white (as in we were blue) but there is an element of truth in this as very pale skinned people do have a blue tinge to them as you can often see the veins under the skins.

Also the Picts painted themselves blue with Wode.

St Andrews cross is a blue background and St Patrick also favours blue (Irish) in fact the national colour of Ireland was blue until the fairly recent protestant/catholic nonsense where the green was adopted against the blue of the Union Jack (UK)

That's all that springs to mind

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Ah, okay.. .needed my nose rubbed in it, is all.

Oceans within oceans was a nice model anyway... just thinner "waters."

a reply to: beansidhe

I'm at a disadvantage with Kundalini, too.. . I only know enough to know most don't know poop... long ago seeing the Western "proponents" as New Age skanks deluding themselves that they were somehow spiritual and purer, while not knowing the first thing about any truth to be found way back... same seeker syndrome with people wanting to get back to the roots of Christianity, too, but not having the tools to do it... having a friend who is one of the top experts in Sanskrit hasn't hurt, either, though he's not into the actual operations... just notes that few make any sense when it's discussed.

Luckily, or not, I long ago decided to just be a little more aware of inner processes, note that "huh, I CAN call energy up from my spine and make my hands burning hot healing tools if I hit the right "state" and leave it at that, as the folks who got all "kundalini sick" weren't exactly successful as humans for the most part.

Again, though, I'm open to learning... but man, it just seems so ...hard.

eta: and also note when my ex was the recipient of my "hot hands" to sooth aches and nerves, she eventually got a jangley electric series of impulses up her spine that scared the dickens out of her (and me) ...and I stopped with my near instinctual "treatments".. .stressing that neither of us knew what we were doing and only knew some called an alleged energy living at the base of the spine "kundalini" but reading some of KPB's writing makes me go "hmmmm..."

a reply to: Baddogma

"Kundalini" enhances whatever it finds.

If you are full of New Age twaddle, then that is magnified.

If you are mentally unstable then that is magnified.

The way to a "good outcome" is to relish beauty without trying to harness it for personal gain.

Then the snake won't poison and kill you is the metaphor.

Kev

Hi everyone!

I had to drop offline for a while, due to a bunch of migraines in a row.

Just popping in to say "hello", and that I plan on getting caught up with the thread tonight/tomorrow. Hope everyone is well...looking forward to reading what I missed.

jacy

originally posted by: jacygirl
Hi everyone!

I had to drop offline for a while, due to a bunch of migraines in a row.

Just popping in to say "hello", and that I plan on getting caught up with the thread tonight/tomorrow. Hope everyone is well...looking forward to reading what I missed.

jacy

I'm glad you are feeling better. And back.

And if you have any super cute kitty pics please post one!

Kev

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear

originally posted by: jacygirl
Hi everyone!

I had to drop offline for a while, due to a bunch of migraines in a row.

Just popping in to say "hello", and that I plan on getting caught up with the thread tonight/tomorrow. Hope everyone is well...looking forward to reading what I missed.

jacy

And if you have any super cute kitty pics please post one!

Kev

Ask and ye shall receive.

a reply to: UniFinity

Thank you for posting that video, very moving!! It prompts me to share something, in case you are interested:

Years ago, I took a "Healing Prayer" class at church, and participated in monthly 'services' where people could come and have us pray with them for their health -
- I never saw any 'healings' happen per se, but everyone I prayed with came back and said they were 'helped' in one way or other (even if just emotionally).

Well, several months ago, my dog, Brandy, started limping and we discovered she had a 'lump' on her leg, which the vet biopsied (with intent to remove as well)...
...Fortunately, it was benign, unfortunately it can't be removed because it is entangled in the ligments and small bones of her ankle -
- the only choices were, take the whole leg off, or keep her on pain medication for as long as possible and then take the leg off when the medication no longer worked..

I was beside myself! I never realized how much I loved this dog (she was supposed to be my daughter's) until this happened!

...Anyway, at some point, while she was recovering from the biopsy, I got it in mind to do my 'healing prayer' thing over her leg -

- with the result that, although the lump itself is still there, Brandy is in absolutely no pain what-so-ever, hasn't needed any pain medication since the biopsy surgery healed!!!
She runs and jumps on that leg as if she had never had any problem in the first place!!
Now, did i 'heal' her with 'prayer'?

I don't know, I just know that we only discovered the lump (it's not highly visible), because she was limping, and she would flinch from pain when it was touched -
- plus, based on what the vet found in attempting to remove the 'mass', it 'should' be continuing to cause Brandy pain, and yet - six months later, she is totally fine without any medication at all!

Here's something i came across today in the Siberian Times which illustrates the benefits of achieving 4th level Panther status, were the colour of choice is red;



That's the costume of Scythian royalty form around the 8th century BC, the small gold pieces upon their cloaks rising into wings are thousands of fastened small gold panthers, which perhaps represented the individual warriors under command;



The virtues of the Panther cult lay in self management and establishing relationship with others, at it's best becoming their glorious leader, and leading them bravely into the underworld, but most important was getting to wear a great hat'



This motif indicates that as a member of the Panther class you can handle the old serpentine kundalini; related on the hybrid beast to the horns of the stag;



Shaman were expected to wear nothing only a pair of antlers on their head and sit in a cross legged position until they turned blue in the cutting wind that blew across the cold Eurasian steppe...

a reply to: Kantzveldt

Wow neato keen!

Sometimes the things you contribute are off the scale cool and interesting. The hat....nearly worth joining up for!

Yes...self management is critical.

Kev

a reply to: jacygirl

My wife went "Squeeeeee!"

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

The hat is great, the Scythians tended to stick with a limited but fundamental symbolic system wonderfully crafted, mastery of the shamanic tradition was of central importance in earning the right to rule as the stag is a central motif on the crown, in conjunction with the tree of life.



The goat also seen is a more obscure symbol but i looked at it here

Despite the strong affinity to Enki, astrology texts list the regent of the Goatfish as the little-known goddess Tašmetu. Her name is derived from the Akkadian word šamû, and can be roughly translated as ‘the granter of requests’

I think it relates to that aspect of Enki were he ate all the sacred plants of Ninhursag but in doing so damn near killed himself, the goat then representing the learning of the secrets of herblore, the eight plants representing this also wnet on to become the eight aspects of the highest level of the sacred tree, which could be seen as an eight legged spider, Canis Major.

originally posted by: Kantzveldt
a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

The hat is great, the Scythians tended to stick with a limited but fundamental symbolic system wonderfully crafted, mastery of the shamanic tradition was of central importance in earning the right to rule as the stag is a central motif on the crown, in conjunction with the tree of life.

I'm very interested in Stag/Doe with antlers mythology, but I've never investigated it.

One time years ago, I became unconscious while driving home from work (1 hour of drive time) and found myself in the void. Of all things, I was confronted by a female deer with antlers (not a reindeer... but looked like a buff female with male antlers). She was very powerful and beautiful and we had a discussion. Nothing "cosmic'.

I've loved Her and been in awe of her ever since.

I have never investigated any related mythology.

Oh, for anyone who cares, after I drove myself home on autopilot, I collapsed and was nearly dead. All the heat left my body from the bottom up.. I lost control of my muscles..I could barely breathe.. my tongue became thick and unmoving, and I lost the ability to put words together.

That was at the height of the golden phase.

I did recover over two days.. I relearned to think and talk and move.

You know, I've heard old stories, that made it clear that "shamans" and the like, had to be in top physical condition..to endure the stresses on their bodies. I guess if that's true, I believe it.

Kev

a reply to: Baddogma

Yeah, well I could go and learn it I suppose, but it would be like Begbie trying to learn aromatherapy (a nod to your Trainspotting reference there).
I'll live it vicariously through someone (Bear) who knows what he's doing.

In terms of your magical hands, isn't that something like what Reiki is meant to be? Or am I confusing them? I've never heard of this 'Kundalini sickness' until this thread. Is it an American thing?