I'm pro Trump and pro Wall...

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: crazyewok

Thats makes no economic sense....

If they can afford to buy a house and support themselves without help then they will only add to the economy not take away from it.

We want them to come work, not live here. That is what a work visa does. As example a orchard needs 50 workers for 6 months and so they hire 50 people to pick for them though their picking season. At the end the workers go back to their home country.

What you are suggesting is immigration and I agree with you on that, but this above would not be immigration.

Yes but if someone is going to put more into the country than take out you want them to immigrate and live there.

If Person A has no skills and no money then a temporary visa for them to do seasonal work is better.

If Person B have $250k in savings and comes over and buys a house and will set up a business that creates 5 American jobs you want that person to stay and invest.

a reply to: Snarl

Now I understand. At first I was like "whaaat?" then I was like "huh, he's crazy!" then I was like, " I don't even know that he's talking about!" now I'm all like, "ok man I get it".

Thanks for clearing that up

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: Honcho

I completely totally disagree with everything you just said.

The market says otherwise you can see it in how companies act in the tech industry. Look at Google headquarters and incentives packages. That's to attract better talent.

The entire market works that way on a much smaller scale.

I'm specifically talking about labor intensive jobs that require no specific qualifications.

Of course it wouldn't work that way for a reasonable job like that. It's a job that actually requires expertise, education, and experience. Illegals don't come here toting engineering degrees, or computer science degrees, or anything inbetween. They typically only have the skill set for labor oriented jobs. Anyone can mow a lawn or pick fruit from a tree. Not everyone can program a computer though. Those types of technical jobs wouldn't even be an option for them.

originally posted by: onequestion

originally posted by: reldra
a reply to: onequestion

Do you also think Mexico will be paying for said imaginary wall? To be for 'the wall' you also have to believe how Trump wants to fund the wall.

We don't need a literal wall all we have to do is fine the companies who hire illegals and eventually they will leave.

Wait what isnt that more government? I thought you were all against that?

originally posted by: whatsup86

originally posted by: onequestion

originally posted by: reldra
a reply to: onequestion

Do you also think Mexico will be paying for said imaginary wall? To be for 'the wall' you also have to believe how Trump wants to fund the wall.

We don't need a literal wall all we have to do is fine the companies who hire illegals and eventually they will leave.

Wait what isnt that more government? I thought you were all against that?

In my OP I said...

Let's get this out of the way quick.. Yes some of these views may seem contrary on the surface compared to my typical perspective on most topics.

Just quoting it for you.

originally posted by: Grimpachi
I never thought I would see the day where Americans wanted to model their border off of North Koreas.

What amazing positioning. There is apparently no limit to the left's B.S..

Selective laws honored. others ignored. Our own out of work, an economy moving ever downwards and virtually none of you take any of these people in your own homes or pay directly from your own pockets. Just label those who are concerned with our own first.

My complete contempt.

originally posted by: Puppylove
a reply to: onequestion

Yes but that career politician refuses and has consistently stood against the oligarchy and is refusing their bribes. It's not being a career politician that's the issue, it's being a bought and paid for politician who's naught but a puppet of the oligarchy. Voting directly for a member of the oligarchy is far far worse.

Too bad Trump-supporters dont listen to (his) reasoning.

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: Sremmos80

What he is proposing is total BS. They don't need to be killed but we need to firmly establish that it's fix America time.

Fix America time? Fix America by expelling Muslims and Mexicans and building a wall. Ow dont forget to increase the gap between the rich and poor. Funny how people fall for a billionaire screaming he will make America great again just because he says so! America without immigrants and with a big ass wall just because it sounds cool! Yee f-king ha cowboy. Now f-k all the handicapped people and the poor because theyre stupid and should go away. America will be great!

a reply to: Staroth

*He's giving a voice to the people. (what most of us are really thinking but can't say it or we're called racist or we're not being politically correct)

It is long past time we get over that BS. It's exactly what they want. You, too scared to voice your opinion, because they'll call you names and try to publicly shame you in to agreeing with them. Look through this thread and see the examples.
When Obama won, his followers said "Suck it up, he got the majority vote". Well, now it's time they take their own advice. Trump is winning and they can't stand it, so they call his followers racists and bigots.

originally posted by: onequestion

originally posted by: whatsup86

originally posted by: onequestion

originally posted by: reldra
a reply to: onequestion

Do you also think Mexico will be paying for said imaginary wall? To be for 'the wall' you also have to believe how Trump wants to fund the wall.

We don't need a literal wall all we have to do is fine the companies who hire illegals and eventually they will leave.

Wait what isnt that more government? I thought you were all against that?

In my OP I said...

Let's get this out of the way quick.. Yes some of these views may seem contrary on the surface compared to my typical perspective on most topics.

Just quoting it for you.

Ok so only when it doesnt directly benefit the people you allow more government. Makes a lot of sense.

a reply to: whatsup86

There's government we need and government we don't.

originally posted by: nwtrucker

originally posted by: Grimpachi
I never thought I would see the day where Americans wanted to model their border off of North Koreas.

What amazing positioning. There is apparently no limit to the left's B.S..

Selective laws honored. others ignored. Our own out of work, an economy moving ever downwards and virtually none of you take any of these people in your own homes or pay directly from your own pockets. Just label those who are concerned with our own first.

My complete contempt.

Oh I see.. Anyone who is aginst shooting people for crossing a border earns the label of the left by you.

I always thought of myself of being more in the middle since I have views contrary to both camps, but if the left is the only group not supporting killing immigrants then I guess you can consider me part of that camp.

I don't care about your contempt nor will I stand for our border becoming like the DMZ.

originally posted by: Honcho

Sure, I agree illegals are taking jobs such as contracting and landscaping for much cheaper. Jobs like that pay reasonably well depending. But I'm failing to see why people are so frustrated over the illegal workers. Turning your anger and frustration to the companies who do it would be more worthwhile. You can deport the Mexicans away, but the company will still stand. They can just find more people to do it all over again. And if they can't find people to take the jobs for cheaper what would happen? They'll probably cut down their combined workforce, and over work the people they do have. And probably cut any benefits they have. Or outright cut wages altogether. American workers will still suffer regardless. The grass won't be greener on the other side.

I'm not frustrated with illegals other than workers bringing their families here too that soaks unto our cost and limited resources such as schools. As I said before we just need to push big fines on companies that use them and that would be a big deterrent. I'm also in favor of the work visa program to bring in the numbers that we actually need as workers. I kind of disagree with your statement "American workers will still suffer regardless". There is a difference between a company that can not afford to pay more and a company that is making higher profits off of illegals, but could still pay more and make profit.

a reply to: Xtrozero

As I said before we just need to push big fines on companies that use them and that would be a big deterrent.

It happens. And like most cases when enforcement is difficult, the penalties are harsh when convictions are made. This article is from 2008.
www.fairus.org...

Here is a recent CRS report.
www.fas.org...

The numbers can be looked at in a number of ways, but employers are being arrested and are being given criminal and civil penalties.

originally posted by: Phage

The numbers can be looked at in a number of ways, but employers are being arrested and are being given criminal and civil penalties.

That there is the answer to all of this. If there are no jobs outside of legal means then they have a less of a reason to come. There is still the reason just to live in America instead of some Generic_ #hole but then that is where the wall comes into play.

a reply to: Grimpachi

Then my post isn't directed towards you.

Here's where it is directed...under the guise of compassion and the guise of love, those that label any who disagree with an 'open border' or increased risk to our citizens of even less chance for employment as 'bigots', Nazis, Hitler, North Korea and every label under the sun.

That isn't compassion nor love...is it? IS IT?

Those I would label as hypocrites, liars and especially those who do nothing to live to the standards they claim by sheltering/supporting those that they claim compassion for. Their home empty of refugees or illegals, themselves they smear those that would take care of our own first.

The coyotes that are making a fortune, the drug running, the criminals that come with those that look for better lives? Yes. A few shot?

It wouldn't have even been needed to correct this if we had just obeyed our own laws. if a few end up shot, other than the border patrol, that is, then thank the policies of this administration AND the corporate supporters of the so-called right.

Not those of us that care for the standards and rules that made this nation. Clear enough?...or further spin from those I address?

We need a wall and to get the military to go door to door rounding up the Mexicans and Islams that is destroying America!

I know some of you agree

a reply to: nwtrucker

Oh, OK I see.. You saw my post and came to a conclusion about who and what I was referring to instead of asking for clarification and decided to label me as being part of some camp then expressing your complete contempt.

a reply to: Grimpachi

Read the damn first line. I said then not you.

a reply to: onequestion

Actually, the handing over of America happened back in the later 1800s. FDR's gold grab was the climax. Nixon's "ptro dollar" the nudge needed. Since then, it's been one very long spiral downward. Here we are today. Big technology, bigger deficit, and about to run the America I know and love into the brick wall labeled: Collapse!

Implied consent. We the people have not been paying attention to our leadership, which is now an ologarchy.

Don Trump? Why the hell not?

...at this point, what difference does it make?