So you refuse to CONSENT to a drug test, they can refuse to treat you? And your fetus.

a reply to: LSU0408

That's the problem. Too many people just do it. I just talked to one mom at the school. She went to this same doctor. She didn't agree with that form either, but just went ahead and signed it. That's why the TSA is doing body cavity checks on innocent people....for our 'safety'. Everyone's scared of terrorists so they just go along with it. Our rights are being eroded daily and everyone just shrugs and goes "Just sign the form."

I could pass any drug test at any given time. I would personally prefer to find a doctor that doesn't have a policy that I feel infringes on my rights. And what if this is some new deal and they ALL have this policy? So my choice would either be to sign away my civil rights OR not receive prenatal care? That's a crock.

a reply to: dawnstar

And I wonder how many birth defects have been prevented by policies like this? Probably none. Has maternal/natal mortality rates dropped? Probably not. I would think policies like this would just cause actual drug addicts to skip out on medical treatment altogether...which is the worst possible outcome.

When I went to have my son (after 13 hours of unmedicated, unsuccessful home labor) I was forced to go to the hospital for a c-section. I was treated like a damn criminal. Because I didn't have an admitting doctor, they treated me like I just walked in off the street. They drug tested me without my consent then too. They didn't bother to find out that I had paid $3500 out of pocket for a midwife and had received very thorough prenatal care the entire time. An emergency c-section is stressful enough, but then I have to deal with accusations and case workers? (and if I had actually had any illicit substance in my system- law enforcement)

These policies don't help anyone, they're just looking for excuses to throw the book at women instead of compassionately helping them in the first place.

originally posted by: ladyvalkyrie

originally posted by: TonyS
a reply to: ladyvalkyrie

Sorry, you don't get to make the rules. In my State, I can refuse to take a breathalyser test upon a traffic stop under suspicion of DWI, but..........we're a No Refusal state, so they can arrest me and take a blood sample.

Same difference. Comply or else!

Yeah, but that goes back to probable cause. If they have reason (behavior, smell, paraphernalia, etc.) to lead the officer to believe you're intoxicated, then it's for the sake of public safety that they NOT let you back on the road before making sure you're good to go.

And if the doctor's consent form had been worded like "Our office will drug test you if we have reason to believe you are using illegal drugs." Then I would have signed it. I don't do drugs, so they would have no reason to suspect that. But random tests at any time? And immediate reporting to the authorities? No counseling. What if it's a false positive?

Now, would you be so willing if they were going door to door to check your blood? Probably not. Random checks for everyone without cause?

Yeah, but who's going to refuse to take a test if they haven't been drinking some form of alcohol?

originally posted by: ladyvalkyrie
If a police officer pulled me over and asked to search my vehicle I would tell them 'no'. The easiest way to get around a warrant requirement is to simply ask for consent. I know I'm innocent and I don't consent. That should be the end of it. They shouldn't be able to withhold treatment because I refuse to 'voluntarily' consent to a warrantless search of my person.

And as for my grandmother and the gun question: you can kill yourself with a knife, or OD, or drive your car off a cliff. Did they ask her about any of those? The more prudent way to deal with someone that you're prescribing mind altering substances to would be to closely monitor them for changes. I'm just wondering if the 'do you own a gun' question is being turned over to LE?

That's my whole entire point. They're not making this policy for my health and safety, or the health and safety of my fetus. There are perfectly constitutional ways to go about that. Doctors are acting as agents of law enforcement and circumventing warrant requirements....and THAT is BS.

Have you ever heard of a case where someone was arrested after answering a doctor's question about gun ownership? Please, just show me one single case. That's ridiculous.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
I guess the only thing scarier than a doctor refusing care because you won't consent to a drug test, is the people here that are supporting the doctor!

It's her body, her rights. It's not the doctors body! And if she (the OP) refused to sign consent to get drug tested and something happened as a result, then the doctor would not be held liable because she (the OP) signed the damned form!

It's the doctor's rights to refuse any patient that doesn't consent to their rules too. It's my body and my rights when I'm cruising down the highway unbuckled too, but if I get spotted by the police, I'm getting a $100 fine for refusing to wear one. And I don't even have a baby that I would hurt by refusing to wear my seat belt. But I have no choice, so I do it. At least the OP can find another doctor.

originally posted by: ladyvalkyrie

originally posted by: GetHyped

originally posted by: DBCowboy

It's her body, her rights.

Hence her right not to use that doctor. No one's rights are being infringed here.

Yeah, but what happens when I start going to different doctors and they ALL have some BS policy like this? Then I don't get prenatal care? Wow, that policy sure is successful!

And as I pointed out in a PP, I'm totally clean. I'm just someone with strong principles about personal freedoms. Policies like this drive actual addicts away from prenatal care for fear of prosecution. Totally counter productive.

If they all had that policy, you'd have to consent to a drug test or go unseen.

originally posted by: ladyvalkyrie
a reply to: DrakeINFERNO

So Jane Doe refuses to sign it. He continues to provide prenatal care. In reality Jane Doe is chock full of drugs. She's just really good at hiding it. The baby is born jacked up. It's on record that she refused random drug tests. All liability would be on her at that point, how could ANYONE come back on the doctor?


PS for all, I'm in Texas.

Shoot girl, you know how many money hungry lawyers there are around here that would LOVVVVE to take a case like that against a doctor? I'm almost bordering your state up here in NW Louisiana.

originally posted by: ladyvalkyrie
a reply to: MotherMayEye

Pap smears look for abnormal or precancerous cells. Prescribing birth control actually has nothing to do with that. Anything they need to know, they can find in blood work, and usually they don't even check that.

That's kind of my point. They tell you you HAVE to do something, when really you don't.

I do like your attitude that you'll stand when told to sit (reminds me of myself), but there will be times in life where we'll all have to sit. I can see your frustration, but if you want the care of this doctor, you may have to do as you're told this one time. What's the worst that could happen?

a reply to: theySeeme

On this day in history, 1/13/2016 @ 9:18am, I starred a post that TheySeeme wrote.

Can't believe we actually agree on something.

a reply to: ladyvalkyrie

I don't know, but can I ask you something? did their demand that you sign off a form allowing them to drug test you cause you additional stress? Did them refusing to treat you because you wouldn't sign?
because well, they are finding that your emotional state during pregnancy kind of effects the fetus thoughout their lives!

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

now consider someone like me, only younger, who knows that she will most likely fail because of the over the counter medication (ibprofen) that some doctor way back over a decade ago when the problem first started told her it would help and well, I found that it did give some temporary relief. Coping with the pain is stressful enough, having to have that question in the back of your mind wondering just what the heck is wrong, why can't I walk sometimes, adding stress also... seeing thousands of dollars in bills piling up after the insurance paid their share, without any answer.... well, how stressed out would the women be if she was pregnant, tested positive because she was taking the one thing that she know would at least provide a little relief, and well, then found herself imprisoned, or forced into drug rehab for a drug problem she never had?

meanwhile, how many women are there across the country, pregnant, feeling stuck in abusive relationships, increasing her stress, her fear, and damaging the baby? that women who's story I posted who ended up in jail after she fell down the stairs and admitting that a phone call with her ex upset her enough to think about adoption or abortion, did they worry that maybe the stress level might have raised her blood pressure enough to cause her to become dizzy and fall down the stairs? Did they investigate the ex, since well, there's just as much evidence that him upsetting her so could have harmed the baby as there is a little bit of mj or other drug. probably more evidence with the mj. no, they just called law enforcement, locked her up, caused more stress even.....and sent a message to every other pregnant lady out there that maybe it is better to leave some major information secret from your doctor since he might use it against you instead of looking for a medical reason as to why you maybe have lost your balance and fell down the stairs. They just want to punish pregnant women for anything that goes against what they feel is doing the proper thing while carrying a child.... now they are centering on drug us, but maybe next year it will be your occupation, your eating habits, or weather or not you decide to pick up your two year old who is playing in the street and carrying into your home for his own safety.
and they are already dragging some innocent women down along with the drug addicts.

originally posted by: Asktheanimals
If you do test positive for any illicit substances it is required by the DEA that they receive that information.
Orwell meets medicine.
That database just gets bigger and bigger and one day when they need it they pull the info they want to back you up in a corner.
It has nothing to do with your safety, health or the doctor's liability.
Just more governmental intrusion.

Normally it's the government funded offices that DO allow you to refuse.

originally posted by: ladyvalkyrie
a reply to: LSU0408

That's the problem. Too many people just do it. I just talked to one mom at the school. She went to this same doctor. She didn't agree with that form either, but just went ahead and signed it. That's why the TSA is doing body cavity checks on innocent people....for our 'safety'. Everyone's scared of terrorists so they just go along with it. Our rights are being eroded daily and everyone just shrugs and goes "Just sign the form."

I could pass any drug test at any given time. I would personally prefer to find a doctor that doesn't have a policy that I feel infringes on my rights. And what if this is some new deal and they ALL have this policy? So my choice would either be to sign away my civil rights OR not receive prenatal care? That's a crock.

Well hey, I understand your frustration, but if you sign that paper to let them test your system for drugs, you won't leave that clinic feeling any different. It's up to you though, I'd sign it and be done, and I'm definitely not one that will just lay over and give in to something. I wish you the best and I hope none of my posts come across assholish to you. My fiance is 7 wks 6 days today so it seems like you two may have conceived around the same time if I read your posts correctly.

a reply to: LSU0408

probably because they mainly serve the poor, people who have no money, people who they aren't gonna get much money from if they do place the kids in foster homes. they lose money by putting those kids in homes, they can make money by taking away the kids though if the parents make a nice income!

a reply to: dawnstar

That's why I said she may have to choose to suffer through a government funded clinic in the inner city. We have one in Shreveport called University Health (formerly LSU Hospital) and that's where you go if you're low income or don't have insurance because all the doctors and nurses are from the colleges around here and working for free. They used to have the best ICU in the state and people in critical condition would be flown there. Not sure if they still are or not, but when you go there for an emergency, you might be waiting in the ER waiting room for up to 12 hours. That's where my fiance and I had to go when her friend had a baby there last Summer. You seriously don't even want to leave your vehicle in the parking lot for very long because the area around that hospital has steadily gotten worse as far as crime. It's sad really.

a reply to: dawnstar

Exactly! I'm on disability for PTSD/Anxiety Disorder. This BS is causing me tremendous stress. I quit taking my medication as soon as I found out I was pregnant because it DEFINITELY causes birth defects.

(hypothetical) Let's say I had a severe panic attack. Knowing my prescription medication causes birth defects I smoke a doobie. Which has never been known to be harmful, yet is illegal. I signed this form, my OBGYN randomly tests me. Next thing I know I'm being investigated by LE! Which what? ...causes MORE stress.

Or, as your example I eat a poppy seed muffin or take an OTC that's safe but comes up as a false positive? Then I'm under investigation. MASSIVE amounts of undue stress.

originally posted by: theySeeme

Have you ever heard of a case where someone was arrested after answering a doctor's question about gun ownership? Please, just show me one single case. That's ridiculous.

Calm down, yo. I'm just wondering why a doctor is asking something like that. I don't know why. I don't know what will happen if you check 'yes'. Probably nothing....at first. But this question is medically irrelevant and has 'database' written all over it.

a reply to: ladyvalkyrie

I see your argument about probably cause, et al, but.......you forget that as far as the "State" is concerned, the population is divided into two groups. Them and the "suspects"; you are a "suspect" and there's no need for cause to subject you to testing. "Them" is engaged in "enforcement". That's all they see.

Yea, its not fair, its just what it is! They don't see the need for "cause" and as they exercise State Regulatory authority, they don't need "cause" and the fact you won't comply only solidifies you as a suspect in their eyes. You live in a system wherein you're presumed guilty until you prove your innocence by complying with the testing. That's just the "way" of it.

Update:

I just checked in with a different OBGYN, my first appointment is next Wednesday. I just downloaded all of their intake forms and it is completely devoid of unconstitutional f**kery.


I'm still curious to see what the Medical Board has to say. As PPs have suggested doctors (as any business) can have any policy they want and refuse service to anyone for any/no reason. But, I'm not ordering a hamburger here, I'm trying to get prenatal care. Refusing service could potentially have very negative consequences. Luckily I'm healthy and low risk so it's no big deal in my case.

a reply to: ladyvalkyrie

You're in a unique situation, Lady. I truly hope things get better for y'all.

originally posted by: LSU0408
Well hey, I understand your frustration, but if you sign that paper to let them test your system for drugs, you won't leave that clinic feeling any different. It's up to you though, I'd sign it and be done, and I'm definitely not one that will just lay over and give in to something. I wish you the best and I hope none of my posts come across assholish to you. My fiance is 7 wks 6 days today so it seems like you two may have conceived around the same time if I read your posts correctly.

Haha! The only ones annoying me are the ones accusing me of being a drug addict and the ones making it seem like I'm putting my baby's life in danger by not going to the doctor RIGHT THIS MINUTE! Prenatal care is mostly a bunch of monitoring, they don't really DO much. I'm already late getting this appointment anyway because I had bronchitis (possibly pneumonia) all through December.

My due date is July 10. Congrats on yours! Hope all goes smoothly! With my son I was sick as a dog the WHOLE friggin time. This one...I honestly keep forgetting I'm pregnant. That makes me think it's a girl!

One more reason I refuse to bow down to their crap: Most of the reason I'm disabled now is because of medical malpractice. So I will admit my respect for doctors is less than zero. I'm watching them like a hawk. And as for everyone who thinks lawsuits are such a big deal: I'm permanently disabled because of malpractice, yet MULTIPLE lawyers told me that you have to be physically disabled (as in paralyzed, unable to care for yourself) or dead to be able to sue anymore. Yay tort reform!