So you refuse to CONSENT to a drug test, they can refuse to treat you? And your fetus.

Take the doctor to court. If a gay couple can force a baker to make a wedding cake then you should be able to force a doctor to do their job.

a reply to: VictorVonDoom

If a gay couple can force a baker to make a wedding cake then you should be able to force a doctor to do their job.

Not if the doctor requires the same for all his patients.

for those of you who say it's no big deal...here's a story for ya.

When Alicia Beltran was 12 weeks pregnant, she took herself to a health clinic about a mile from her home in Jackson, Wis., for a prenatal checkup. But what started as a routine visit ended with Beltran eventually handcuffed and shackled in government custody – and at the center of a first-of-its-kind federal lawsuit challenging the constitutionality of a state’s fetal protection law.

On July 2, Beltran, 28, met with a physician’s assistant at West Bend Clinic at Saint Joseph’s Hospital in West Bend, Wis., for her prenatal visit. When asked to detail her medical history, Beltran admitted a past struggle with the painkiller Percocet. But that was all behind her, Beltran said: She had been taking Suboxone, a drug used to treat Percocet dependency. Lacking health insurance and unable to afford the medication, Beltran had used an acquaintance’s prescription and self-administered the drug in decreasing doses. She had taken her last dose a few days before her prenatal visit.

According to Beltran, the physician’s assistant recommended she renew her use of Suboxone under a doctor’s supervision. After Beltran declined, she said she was asked to take a drug test, which was negative for all substances except Suboxone.

Two weeks later, a social worker visited Beltran at home and told her that she needed to continue Suboxone treatment under the care of a physician, said Beltran, who again declined. Two days later, Beltran found police officers at her home, who arrested and handcuffed her.

www.nbcnews.com...

Heck this day and age, I'd be careful about what I told the danged doctors if I was pregnant.

another one:

after an upsetting phone conversation with her estranged husband, Ms.
Taylor became light-headed and fell down a flight of stairs in her
home. Paramedics rushed to the scene and ultimately declared her
healthy. However, since she was pregnant with her third child at the
time, Taylor thought it would be best to be seen at the local ER to
make sure her fetus was unharmed.

After Taylor was treated by a nurse at the private hospital and deemed fine, she confided to the nurse that she was upset and scared and wasn’t sure she wanted to continue the pregnancy. Her husband recently left her after she told him she was pregnant with their third child:

"I never said I didn’t want my baby, but I admitted that I had been
considering adoption or abortion," she said. "I admit that I said I
wasn’t sure I wanted to continue the pregnancy. My husband sends me
money, but money doesn’t make a parent. I don’t have anybody else to
turn to."

rhrealitycheck.org...

Thrown in jail, for falling down the stairs, isn't that nice. You'd think that if they were worried about the unborn child, they would want the pregnant women to feel that she can say anything in confidentiality to her doctor. I mean, it would be in the best interest of the doctor to know that she was uptight when she fell, and maybe she still is. there might be a connection between the stress and the incident, maybe something that needs to be treated. But, well, nope, didn't work out that way did it?

a reply to: dawnstar
Not sure what any of that has to do with the OP's case.

a reply to: dawnstar

Beltran had used an acquaintance’s prescription and self-administered the drug in decreasing doses.

^^^wonder why docs want drug tests

They have a similar policy in Michigan that my wife had to sign, however the doctor and nurse actually explained it. You consent to a random drug screen, but much like most post employment random tests, it is only done if they find probable cause to do so. Basically, that form gives them the power of an LEO (only test if necessary). The only time they take a mandatory screen, is if you are on Medicaid through the state, in which case they do one during the initial visit, and one at like, 30 weeks or so. Nothing to be too concerned about

a reply to: TinySickTears

Her point and my point is that doctors are acting as agents of law enforcement.

If the consent form I'm upset about had been worded "You will be randomly drug tested so that you and the doctor can confidentially discuss your situation." I would have signed THAT. But it doesn't say that, it says, "So you can be reported to CPS and the authorities."

Same thing with her examples. Instead of dealing with the individual and their health needs and referring them to rehab or what have you....it's the handcuffs. The criminal record. The taking away of other children.

They do next to nothing to help you in the first place, but sure are quick to throw you in the slammer.

* Back to your example of pain management drug testing: it's my understanding that if the pain killers prescribed are NOT in your system, the doctor then refuses to treat you further (fraud and all). Is there anything in your consent form that says you'll be turned over to the authorities? The answer has got to be No, because it's not against the law to have drugs in your system unless you're driving. It's illegal to possess them or to sell them, but not to ingest them. The worst 'punishment' a failed test would result in would be your doctor dropping you as their patient, not a criminal record.

originally posted by: dothedew
They have a similar policy in Michigan that my wife had to sign, however the doctor and nurse actually explained it. You consent to a random drug screen, but much like most post employment random tests, it is only done if they find probable cause to do so. Basically, that form gives them the power of an LEO (only test if necessary). The only time they take a mandatory screen, is if you are on Medicaid through the state, in which case they do one during the initial visit, and one at like, 30 weeks or so. Nothing to be too concerned about

I had a long discussion with the nurse about it. I even told her that I could understand if they had SOME kind of probable cause. She very clearly stated that they didn't need probable cause, they did it randomly. And the form clearly stated it was so they could report you to the authorities....not to make sure there's not adverse reactions with other medication, or so that the doctor has a comprehensive idea of your health....to turn you over to the law to be punished.

And if you decline this 'voluntary' consent, they refuse to treat you.

It just seems unconstitutional to me, which is why I refuse to bow down to it.

originally posted by: TinySickTears
a reply to: dawnstar

Beltran had used an acquaintance’s prescription and self-administered the drug in decreasing doses.

^^^wonder why docs want drug tests

Yeah, the state won't help her with her addiction in the first place, but sure quick to throw her behind bars if she tries to help herself.

a reply to: ladyvalkyrie

And the form clearly stated it was so they could report you to the authorities....not to make sure there's not adverse reactions with other medication, or so that the doctor has a comprehensive idea of your health....to turn you over to the law to be punished.

Really? The form stated that it was so you could be punished?
I don't know what state you're in but this is the first thing I found:

If a woman is alleged to be using drugs or alcohol during her pregnancy or tests positive during the pregnancy, the intake specialist assesses whether there are current safety issues to other children in the home. The intake specialist’s assessment should include the nature and extent of the mother’s use of drugs or alcohol.

If there are other children in the home, the intake specialist assesses whether there are allegations of abuse or neglect to these children. If there is an allegation, the intake specialist completes an intake, listing the children in the home as victims. The unborn child is not listed on the Person List, but the intake specialist addresses concerns about the unborn child in the intake Narrative.

The intake specialist completes a CRSR – Request for Local Public Service if:

• there are no current allegations regarding the children in the home or there are no other children in the home; and

• a professional reporter (typically law enforcement, medical, or casework staff) is requesting CPS assistance; and

• the mother will deliver in the near future.

The unborn child is not included on the Person List. A CRSR should not be completed if the woman is early in the pregnancy.

www.dfps.state.tx.us...

Where's the punishment part?

For reference, this is the search I used prenatal drug test requirements

So refusing to sign a consent form means they can refuse treatment?

Pretty much. Just as refusing to sign a consent form on a job application means you can go elsewhere.

I believe it has something to do with malpractice suits.
Doctors kinda have to know what is inside you, to treat things that are messed up inside you.
If they did not do this and someone had a bad reaction to treatment and say, lost the child in this case, the Doctor gets sued. It effects everyone at the end of the day.

Doctor gets sued then insurance rates go up.
Insurance rates go up, cost of medical treatment goes up.
Cost of medical rates go up; cries for universal health care go up.
Universal health care is Government sponsored health care.
Since it is Government Sponsored it becomes an Issue of the State.
We lose the right to privacy since the Government says it wants to know where the money goes and who is responsible for spending it.
Crime is discovered people go to Jail and or fined.

Just seems to me increasingly there's only one way to be happy in this world. You gotta submit to the collective. If you can't, tough luck.

Why is it this way? Because our innate value as individuals is falling. Maybe less than 1% of us are barely keeping up. Machines and computers and other technologies and development of knowledge and economy are steadily decreasing our value. We're like pixels on a screen and hte resolution keeps increasing. Soon only the picture is seen, not pixels. One person becomes infinitely small compared to the collective progression.

originally posted by: AlienSupernova
No offense , as a woman myself, but heres the issue.

If you are on something, or have even forgot you had taken some medication, and it reacted badly with some sort of treatment then they would be held liable

It sounds like its more safety for the both of you than anything else. Although I do know there are many issues in the medical community, in this case I feel like this is a misunderstanding on your part

Love Love,
AlienSupernova

Ummm, sorry but your opinion is quite flawed. For one reason: if a positive test for illegal or even legal drugs would possibly "interfere" with a prescribed treatment, then they would TEST EVERYBODY seeking ANY medical care.

They don't. I know this becaus I have been a nurse for nearly 20 years...

originally posted by: ladyvalkyrie
But it doesn't say that, it says, "So you can be reported to CPS and the authorities."

.

any chance you can post a pic of the form?
i have a hard time believing it says that.
i guess its possible but i just dont see it.

if it does say that i bet there are a whole lotta mofo's not signing it.
sign here and incriminate yourself.
hahahahahaha

i just googled prenatal care and drug test and got this from 06

www.acog.org...

first questions after confirming pregnancy.
a little of this and a little of that
then, drug use.
a couple pages down
prevention of this. prevention of that. wash your hands. tobacco use.
DRUG USE

no stretch that 10 years later they require consent to test

imo youre making a big deal out of it

oh well

not my baby not my problem i guess

originally posted by: lovebeck


They don't. I know this becaus I have been a nurse for nearly 20 years...

not yet but its getting there
seems like it is here for prenatal
i got it with pain management
i also got it with ER visits

things change in the medical field. daily. yearly.
what is acceptable and/or normal now might not be next year

a reply to: TinySickTears

she was addicted to pain medication, which I believe was prescribed to her by a doctor to begin with. she couldn't afford the doctor so she used a friends prescription for Suboxone, which she would have been given in most drug reahabilitation clinics. at decreasing dosages, just like they would have done. when she thought she was pregnant, she stopped even that. you can knock her for self medicating instead of going through the hassle of gping to a doctor but well, not everyone can get affordable care in this country and I've been in that crack for so long as far as I am concerned when it takes enlisting a state representative for help to get treatment for a danged broken ankle, well, at least in my opinion, society has lost the right to tell those who can't afford this best healthcare in the world if you can afford it system a danged thing as to how they decide to self medicate.
I am sure, along with most americans wouldn't like to have medications forced on them that they felt they didn't need. Matter of fact, the people who gripe about flouride in the water often times seem to sound like they think this is a basic human right!
unless of course, you are pregnant....then you lose your basic rights, heck, make sure you don't fall down any stairs now, and be very, very careful driving, and hope the heck you don't end up with a false positive drug test!!!
ya, know what, I spent close to ten years popping ibporfen like it was candy at work just to be able to walk around the shop and work....
luckily by boss didn't do drug tests, because ibprofen is one thing that will give off a false positive.
so, I guess if I have been pregnant during that time.... I would just have forget about walking let alone working, huh?

a reply to: Phage

Dealing with CPS would be punishment enough for me.

And as I said before, what if the illicit 'drug' in question was marijuana? Not one death from overdose in the history of the world, no proof whatsoever of birth defects caused by it. One of my prescription drugs (I'm NOT taking for the next few months) prevents ossification. But it's perfectly legal. And if I were to get drug tested and marijuana found in my system, that's an illegal drug. And I would have a record with law enforcement forever about that illegal drug found in my system, even though it very well may be perfectly safe for use during pregnancy.

But, my piss is clean, I'm not even worried about it. I just object to the principle of their form and their threats to not treat me (or my fetus) for refusing to sign a 'voluntary' form.

a reply to: ladyvalkyrie

Dealing with CPS would be punishment enough for me.

From what you've told us, and from what the Texas requirements are, it's seems doubtful you would.

But, my piss is clean, I'm not even worried about it. I just object to the principle of their form and their threats to not treat me (or my fetus) for refusing to sign a 'voluntary' form.

It's not really a threat though, is it. Don't sign, go elsewhere. Like a job app.

originally posted by: ladyvalkyrie
And if I were to get drug tested and marijuana found in my system, that's an illegal drug. And I would have a record with law enforcement forever about that illegal drug found in my system,

oh give me a break.
so the coppers keep a database of all people that have drugs in their system?

i think you are being overly dramatic