So you refuse to CONSENT to a drug test, they can refuse to treat you? And your fetus.

Here is an inquiry letter I just sent to the Medical Board for my state:

Today I reported to my OBGYN office for my first prenatal visit. Among the packet of paperwork was a consent form. The consent form was for random drug testing, a positive result being reported to CPS and other authorities. There were also consent forms for STD information being reported, to entities such as CDC, which I completely understand the importance of and agreed to.

I took exception to the drug testing request and refused to sign it. For the record, I do not use drugs or alcohol. As a matter of fact, I stopped taking all (legal) medications as soon as I found out I was pregnant. I used to be a police officer and as a police officer I couldn't search a house, a car or even someone's pockets without at least probable cause- if not a warrant. As a police officer I could ask someone's consent to search and it was their constitutional right to refuse. And such refusal DID NOT constitute probable cause to conduct a search anyway.

Like I said, I filled out all their other paperwork and consented to several other things that I didn't take as a violation of my rights. I was led back to an examining room and told that the doctor would refuse to see me if I did not sign this form. So refusing to sign a consent form means they can refuse treatment? And prenatal care at that? At that point IF I signed it it would be under coercion and not voluntary at all. Right?

I still refused to sign and left the office. I had already left a urine sample and if they (illegally and without consent) tested it for drugs they would have found it to be clean.

I am writing this letter to inquire about the legality of this practice. I'm not going to waste your time with a complaint if what they did was perfectly legal, but if this practice IS legal, it is seriously flawed from a constitutional standpoint.

Personally, I am livid. I am being refused prenatal care because I refuse to submit to an invasion of my privacy. And people will argue "What about the baby? It's for the baby's safety." And like I told the nurse- if there were some sort of probable cause it would be a whole other can of worms. If I showed up to the appointment intoxicated, if my teeth were falling out and I wasn't gaining weight, if I had visible track marks... THAT would be something. But not even that, they want my VOLUNTARY CONSENT to randomly test? And refusing to voluntarily consent means they refuse to see me? So now the fetus is being refused treatment by a doctor? Wow, THAT'S a great policy for the safety of the fetus.

No offense , as a woman myself, but heres the issue.

If you are on something, or have even forgot you had taken some medication, and it reacted badly with some sort of treatment then they would be held liable

It sounds like its more safety for the both of you than anything else. Although I do know there are many issues in the medical community, in this case I feel like this is a misunderstanding on your part

Love Love,
AlienSupernova

a reply to: ladyvalkyrie

I like your letter but most of all...CONGRATULATIONS!

This is a policy that is being adopted by more and more states. I stressed a bit as I use cannabis oil for a medical condition, and stopped as soon is I found out I was expecting. But I wasn't sure if it would show up in my first appointment(which was an "educational consultation", no meeting the dr, but they DID do a urine screening). I was never informed of any such thing, only saw it on my discharge papers. I assume it was negative, and any subsequent tests will be negative.

I'm aware that drug testing mothers at delivery is normal if there is cause to believe that there has been drug use, but testing all pregnant women seems extreme. Especially when it isn't disclosed, as mine wasn't at all.

if you get a response to your inquiry, please do let us know!

a reply to: ladyvalkyrie

Sorry, you don't get to make the rules. In my State, I can refuse to take a breathalyser test upon a traffic stop under suspicion of DWI, but..........we're a No Refusal state, so they can arrest me and take a blood sample.

Same difference. Comply or else!

That is the Dr,s policy...move on.

Sometimes it is really that simple.

OB/GYN is a high risk/insurance liabilities out the wazoo profession, and many Doctors here left their practices. I agree that this for a patient is BS. That said I can't even imagine what kind of lawsuit would result from a patient who was using and the Doctor treated her unknowingly and the baby had birth defects because of it.

I would also be suspicious because all kinds of information is being collected thru the health care systems and used willy-nilly. If you check the very fine print they mention your info can be shared with "third parties" the health system partners with.

a reply to: ladyvalkyrie

They do it for the babies as too many are born addicted. I remember reading about this last year: they had decided to include drug tests to the other routine tests such as HIV, hepatitis etc to protect the unborn baby and they have decided to do it with all expecting women to reduce the singling out of women by appearance or sometimes race.

Don't take it personally, they just want to reduce the number of drug dependent new borns.

Congratulations on your pregnancy!

a reply to: tinner07

This is very unlikely to be the doctor's policy. This is becoming very wide spread, in many states it is mandatory. Usually a first trimester test, if positive there will be more tests. Some hospitals do test at delivery as well. There is some discretion, where if you are positive for say, cannabis, the dr could say "I will test you again in X number of days, if positive I report it to CPS."

I wonder if the type of insurance has anything to do with this. Are you on Medicaid, for example? Anything the government gets involved in increases the chances for this sort of thing. I'd be interested to know what kind of coverage you have and whether that has any bearing on all these forms.

I'm on a managed care HMO Medicare Advantage plan myself and the restrictions on stuff like drugs and how much you can get "on the plan" are rather horrendous. They really don't care what you need. They just care about the rules.

originally posted by: ladyvalkyrie

If I showed up to the appointment intoxicated, if my teeth were falling out and I wasn't gaining weight, if I had visible track marks...

Unfortunately, there are many drug addicts that don't show those particular signs. Prescription drug addiction is rampant. However, I agree with you 100%. Withholding medical care from a fetus because of the actions of the mother is like withholding food from children because their parents might be: drug addicts, criminals etc.

This is another case of supposedly protecting the welfare of the population as a whole while undermining individual rights. A pseudo safety net while the whole time, they are digging away at the structure underneath. This only leads to a fall of individual rights but, awwwww, who cares? Right?

Good for you for sticking up for your individual rights. And please, do let us know what response you get from the doctor's office. Your letter is well written and because you actually wrote it, I have a feeling they will let their Orwellian rule slide. If nothing else, at least as far as you are informed.

a reply to: ladyvalkyrie

If this OBGYN is private practice, their policy is their policy. They have as much of a right to determine that policy as you have a right to tell them to stuff it about that drug test. Find a different OBGYN. You have the right to decline the test but they are not obligated to see you. They will probably call CPS on you anyway because you refused to take that test. Don't be surprised when there are social workers at your door.

I think a policy like this is unethical and counter productive. You simply prevent women that are drug users from seeking prenatal care. Denying care to a population of the unborn that is likely to need that care more than average is just stupid and mean. Also, as you said, they are essentially refusing to see to the health of the unborn because they are making a moral judgment about the mother.

Ethically, I think that they are out of line but you can't require them to see you unless... You can successfully make the argument (as in you would probably have to take it to court) that they are your ONLY option for prenatal care. Find someone else. I would let it go.

Congratulations by the way. I hope all goes well.

a reply to: schuyler

I am on Medicare (on disability), but this has nothing to do with that. It is the policy of the individual doctor's office and it is blanket for all patients.

Thank you for all the well wishes! Luckily I'm fine, and this is my third so it is old hat at this point.

I agree that the health of the fetus is important. But how about this? Counsel the patients. Emphasize the importance of not doing illegal drugs- or even many legal and over the counter drugs- as well as good diet and prenatal vitamins. Ask for consent to test, and if they refuse, it's on record, treat them anyway. And if the mother uses despite all that? How in the hell could the doctor be held liable?

Here's my beef: They ask for consent. I say 'no'. That should be the end of it. He can go on to treat me and is absolved of all liability. But to say: consent or we won't treat you.... and I do consent...then it isn't VOLUNTARY at all, it's by coercion.

And that's the stupidest thing of all. If they tested my urine (without my permission) they would have seen it was clean. If they had bothered to ask me I would have gladly told them that I've been taking my prenatal vitamins religiously and quit my (much needed) prescription medication cold turkey because of my 'condition'. And yet I now have no idea if my vital signs are ok, if the protein level in my urine is ok, if the baby's heartbeat is ok....because they essentially kicked me out of the office for refusing to sign a VOLUNTARY consent.

@chelsdh The whole marijuana point REALLY gets my blood boiling. It's not illegal for any kind of actual public safety interest. No one in the history of the world has died from it. Yet, if I were to use it (probably safe to use in pregnancy- birth defects are NOT higher in Jamaica) and it were to show up on one of these not-voluntary tests, I would be on the CPS hit list and my kid(s) could all be taken from me and placed in the ever-so-well-run foster care system.

a reply to: ladyvalkyrie

Welcome to Amerika.

Obey.


(scary, isn't it.)

originally posted by: TonyS
a reply to: ladyvalkyrie

Sorry, you don't get to make the rules. In my State, I can refuse to take a breathalyser test upon a traffic stop under suspicion of DWI, but..........we're a No Refusal state, so they can arrest me and take a blood sample.

Same difference. Comply or else!

Yeah, but that goes back to probable cause. If they have reason (behavior, smell, paraphernalia, etc.) to lead the officer to believe you're intoxicated, then it's for the sake of public safety that they NOT let you back on the road before making sure you're good to go.

And if the doctor's consent form had been worded like "Our office will drug test you if we have reason to believe you are using illegal drugs." Then I would have signed it. I don't do drugs, so they would have no reason to suspect that. But random tests at any time? And immediate reporting to the authorities? No counseling. What if it's a false positive?

Now, would you be so willing if they were going door to door to check your blood? Probably not. Random checks for everyone without cause?

I think you're taking offence to the fact it's called a drug test, like you're somehow being accused of something. It's not much different then a blood test, the Dr very likely is required either by his insurance or yours to be as safe as possible and that means knowing 100% what's in your system before administering care. I'm pro choice but I think that seems fair enough if there's a baby involved because it's a lot more sensitive if you have a bad reaction to something.

drs are just supposed to trust what people say? lets say you were on something that reacts badly with what the dr gives you and kills the fetus. all of a sudden everything is the drs fault and you can sue him for millions and he can lose his license. why would anyone risk that?

a reply to: ladyvalkyrie
I agree- I absolutly do not think (and I've done about as much research from none bs sources as I can) that this would do no harm to my baby. And I hve been suffering very much from having to discontinue my use of cannabis oil.... But, I don't want to deal with CPS, home visits or anything with them. I'll deal with my pain, but as soon as I can, I'll be back on it.

I guess the only thing scarier than a doctor refusing care because you won't consent to a drug test, is the people here that are supporting the doctor!

It's her body, her rights. It's not the doctors body! And if she (the OP) refused to sign consent to get drug tested and something happened as a result, then the doctor would not be held liable because she (the OP) signed the damned form!