Breast Feeding Mom

originally posted by: ketsuko

This isn't like an issue where someone came up to her at her table and said, "Cover up." This is a moment where she more or less eavesdropped on something happening at another table and decided she didn't like it and made it her business.

It very much is about control, but not in the way you are making it out to be.

She actually hunted the room daring anyone to engage her. Even in the picture she is turned all the way around facing the rest of the restaurant.

a reply to: Xtrozero

As a mother of several, and one who did breastfeed, I can tell you a few things.

One, some kids flat out will not eat covered. Some will at times, and not at other times.

Two, special clothing is not cheap. The average top might or might not lend itself to breastfeeding modestly. Button-ups are better, as you can unbutton from the bottom, but a little skin will still show. Some nursing bras cover more, and some cover next to nothing.

Three, some people are weird about breastfeeding even if there is coverage. I saw some of that. Even with a light cover, some people would frown. If no cover, and the shirt unbuttoned, and very little showing, the looks were worse. That's with the shirt, mind you, covering most of the top. Once, we were at the zoo, in summer heat, walking around, and I got a nasty look for not tossing a hot blanket on the baby's head. I ignored them.

There are even people around who think no one should be allowed to breastfeed out places, unless in the restrooms. I figure, when they are willing to eat there, they can tell moms to feed their infants there!

Breastfeeding moms get way too much flak. Breastfeeding is a great option, the best one, if it's at all possible. Not only is it better for the babies, but it's better for the moms. Pregnancy weight loss, for one, and the risk of breast cancer is greatly reduced as well. People need to encourage it, instead of looking down at it.

a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

I won't argue with that, but one disapproving look does not equal significant flak. I've drawn as much with a misbehaving child.

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: Kentuckymama
Some babies will not eat with a towel over their head. Mine wouldn't. Would you?

That's what pumps and bottles are for.

My oldest son wouldn't take a bottle of breast milk. At all. Ever. So, no, that doesn't always work, either. I couldn't go anywhere for months without him.

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes

Breastfeeding moms get way too much flak. Breastfeeding is a great option, the best one, if it's at all possible. Not only is it better for the babies, but it's better for the moms. Pregnancy weight loss, for one, and the risk of breast cancer is greatly reduced as well. People need to encourage it, instead of looking down at it.

I have never seen any disrespect for a woman that breastfeeds, I have also never seen a woman not try to do it with at least some privately as in even simply facing away from the crowed etc. In fact most of the time you can't even tell they are doing it. In this case she pull it all out for everyone to see and physically faced the whole restaurant in a challenge. I think at some point the breastfeeding becomes least of the issue.

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: Kentuckymama
Some babies will not eat with a towel over their head. Mine wouldn't. Would you?

That's what pumps and bottles are for.

My oldest son wouldn't take a bottle of breast milk. At all. Ever. So, no, that doesn't always work, either. I couldn't go anywhere for months without him.

I wound up having to give up on it with mine because they supplemented him with bottles in the nursery so he fought it every step of the way. I finally gave up on it as soon as I could safely do so and let him cruise onto food and formula/milk.

a reply to: masqua

That^

People don't give a second look, well guys do, at a woman walking along the beach with a skimpy bikini and I mean the ones that are nothing but string and 3 tiny bits of cloth. So, why do we make a big deal of breast feeding? My wife did and she carried a small towel, which was as much for drool and spit up as it was for covering up. She used a pump, especially at work, because it was painful for her not to express milk for so long [ RN on 12 hour shifts ] and that's what I fed my kids when she was gone, but any other time, home or in public,, she breast fed.
She even had those trick bras that had a fold down flap built in to the cup.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: Kentuckymama
a reply to: Xtrozero

Tell the story!!!! Tell us how you know what breast milk tastes like!

Every man with kids knows what breast milk taste like, but only once...YUCK!

If my husband were posting, he'd disagree with you. Claimed it tasted sweet, and not unpleasant. It's just milk, like any other mammal produces.

More on topic, I can see your questioning her actions. Maybe she wants to be confrontational, and maybe not. Maybe she got sick of the nasty looks, and decided to be a bit more open as a result. I could see that happening.

If anyone had actually spoken to me about it, when mine were that age, they wouldn't have liked the response.

For those in other countries, it's currently legal for a woman to breastfeed wherever she's allowed to be herself. The problems are cultural, not legal.

a reply to: Xtrozero

My two cents....

Having "the right" and doing "the right thing" aren't always the same thing.

Let me start out by saying that my wife breast fed our son for the first 13 months of his life. I guess we just must be lucky, because in all that time there was never an instance where they (mother and child) found themselves in a situation where the feeding just had to be done way out in the open like, I don't know, in the center of a restaurant. Well, maybe it wasn't that we were lucky and maybe it was more because like most kids, ours had developed something of a feeding schedule (although it changes over time and isn't exactly like clockwork). So if we were going to go out to dinner, we would consider his needs first and schedule our meal around his. Crazy, right? Putting the kid's needs first? Are there times that feeding in public can't be avoided (like being stuck in an airport or stuck on a train or something like that)? Absolutely.

Why would we do that? Although my wife had the "right" to whip out the girls wherever and whenever she wanted to in order to feed the baby, being of this world she (and I) realized that not everyone is comfortable with that. It's this old fashioned thing called common courtesy.

A few other thoughts about the woman in question....

Based her statements and posting(s), she strikes me as one of those people that have within them the need to search high and low for someone to fight with. While not specific to breastfeeding, there have been times in life when people have given me/us "dirty looks" for one thing or another. I've found the best thing to do is to ignore them (as a general rule but in particular when my son is around). Back to this woman... So, some lady was giving her a dirty look. So what?!?!? You have a baby in your arms and you're looking to escalate? Forget about things escalating to violence or anything like that. Why would you want your young child around some arguments with random strangers? You think that makes for a peaceful upbringing? (No, you can't raise kids to be wimps but they also don't need to be tough by being damn near traumatized by seeing their parents getting into screaming matches with people on the street). Yes, in this case the child is a little baby, but even though a kid of that age doesn't understand language fully, they absolutely pick up on vibes.

One other prediction that I'll never know if I'm right about.... but I suspect this woman will be looking for fights long after the child is done breastfeeding. Sadly, she may very well continue to use the child as a prop on her endeavors.

Side Note: I may have missed a few posts on this thread but I did notice a few comments (that I also have heard on this topic in other places).... comments to the affect of, "For thousands of years it was fine to breastfeed and it was no big deal, but NOW it's suddenly an issue." I think before making statements like that people should remind themselves that for thousands of years it was "ok" to have slaves. For thousands of years it was "ok" for men to beat their wives and children. For thousands of years it was "ok" to _________________. While breastfeeding in public is not horrific like those examples, the fact of the matter is that societies change over time and I don't find it wise or enlightened to cherry-pick from history (especially ancient history) in order to prove a point about modern day social norms.

To the guy who said breasts are only for babies and are not sexual objects.

Breasts are sexual erogenous zones. Some of us love having our breasts played with, gently suckled and more. Others dislike it and would rather their breasts be ignored for the most part. It varies from woman to woman.

Same with men, some are really attracted to breasts, and even in cultures where breasts are on display, they're still erogenous zones and play a part in sexual encounters for many couples.

Breasts are "for" babies as you say, as such they are inherently representative of reproduction, their very existence, especially while pronounced creates for many the association of children and reproduction, for some this association is stronger than others. Since sexual desire has it's origins in sexual reproductions, regardless of how it's morphed in time due to societal cues, and regardless of whether consciously a person wants kids, it's perfectly natural and reasonable to find breasts attractive sexually, they're quite capable of setting off all the cues.

As a bisexual I find breasts very attractive, and it has nothing to do with society telling me they are. It has to do with the odd maternal feeling a nice pair brings out in me. It get's me sexually aroused as that feeling is sexual in nature as it sets off all my sexual reproductive instincts even though it's the same sex. I'm bisexual so both sexual cues can set me off, guys acting and looking certain ways do so as well.

Human sexuality is a very varied thing, and what people are attracted to is not purely because society tells them to be. If it where you wouldn't have people attracted sexually to weird things like cars or walls. Human minds are wired differently, and people acquire sexual associations throughout their lives as well.

It's all about association. While some associations are societal in nature, like nice cars, others are natural inclinations like breasts, or long legs, or butts, or full red lips, or... well a lot of things on the body. All it takes is for that body part to create a sexual association in your head, and regardless of our culture such an association is an obvious one for many body parts. Such associations won't manifest strongly in everyone, and different people will have a stronger association by different parts, BUT...

To say breasts are not sexual objects, that no one should be attracted to them, and to blame such attractions purely on society is ridiculous. To chastise people for having that attraction because you don't is silly. I don't chastise people for being into long legs when it's not my thing. Who are you to decide what people should or should not find sexually arousing on the human body?

Personally I'd hate if all men or women stopped thinking of breasts sexually. I love breast play, receiving and giving. Something by your statements must be a turn off for you.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

I won't argue with that, but one disapproving look does not equal significant flak. I've drawn as much with a misbehaving child.

I quite agree. In this particular case maybe the woman at the other table as scowling because the mom was looking round for someone she could claim was disapproving. And, to be fair, she could have worn a looser top, and pulled it up from the bottom. Mine didn't like being covered, but I could do that easily enough. Heck, I didn't wear tight tops anyway, because they would have, at times, been wet.

From what others have shared, seems that there are some who want to push the issue too much. I didn't see a lot of that. With the first, all I heard was horror stories, discouraging breastfeeding, and with the rest, I did hear some discussion of how breast milk was better, but nothing really pushy. That wouldn't have gone over well! Then again, maybe my attitude kept it from being pushed so much. I don't push well, and had no issues telling even the nurses that, no, I didn't need help, and was managing just fine. No, didn't need someone to tell me how to handle a baby, etc. I had no problems breastfeeding. My sister did, as hers didn't do well on it. Me, I could have fed two kids, no problem!

I'd love to see all moms at least try, and society to not be judgmental about it, but I do agree that the FB mentality/personal reality crap gets out of hand. More time is wasted on that stuff than I can fathom.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes

Breastfeeding moms get way too much flak. Breastfeeding is a great option, the best one, if it's at all possible. Not only is it better for the babies, but it's better for the moms. Pregnancy weight loss, for one, and the risk of breast cancer is greatly reduced as well. People need to encourage it, instead of looking down at it.

I have never seen any disrespect for a woman that breastfeeds, I have also never seen a woman not try to do it with at least some privately as in even simply facing away from the crowed etc. In fact most of the time you can't even tell they are doing it. In this case she pull it all out for everyone to see and physically faced the whole restaurant in a challenge. I think at some point the breastfeeding becomes least of the issue.

I did, from a mall employee once, and I was actually covered. I basically told her to get over it, that it as legal and I didn't care what she thought. Most I saw doing it were a bit more discreet, as well. I was, for the most part. Shirt up, not down, and very little showing, especially once the baby was latched on. For the most part, other than shuffled clothing, you wouldn't have noticed.

in her case, it could well be to get attention on FB or something. Some people act like that's the entire reason they exist. Sad, really. Especially since that sort of behavior makes some look down on the activity itself. To be completely fair, there are some women that see breast size as some sort of status thing, too, and attach far too much to one feature, relating it to self worth in their minds. I have known a few like this. Not many, but a few.

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: Kentuckymama
Some babies will not eat with a towel over their head. Mine wouldn't. Would you?

That's what pumps and bottles are for.

My oldest son wouldn't take a bottle of breast milk. At all. Ever. So, no, that doesn't always work, either. I couldn't go anywhere for months without him.

I wound up having to give up on it with mine because they supplemented him with bottles in the nursery so he fought it every step of the way. I finally gave up on it as soon as I could safely do so and let him cruise onto food and formula/milk.

That's a shame! Bottles take less work, so a lot of babies will do that. With my oldest, I didn't try it, due to horror stories from moms I knew but the other four, it worked out great. In the hospital, they were in the room with me, too, nearly all the time, so no nursery workers to screw up the process. With the older son, he wouldn't even take a bottle for us to have a night out. We tried it once. The poor sitter got maybe two ounces into him, by sticking the bottle under her arm, and going topless. Picky kid, that one! The breastfed kids didn't want a bottle or cup till they started on solid food.

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: Kentuckymama
Some babies will not eat with a towel over their head. Mine wouldn't. Would you?

That's what pumps and bottles are for.

So you will admit that you are scared of bared breasts in public?

Second line.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: knoxie

Obviously, she's free to do it. Whatever, that's her choice. But at the same time, she also needs to understand the reality of the world around her. People are going to look and they're going to disapprove. She either needs to live with that or cover up or other wise adapt. Making herself the victim may be trendy, but I'm getting really tired of this response from people.

You are never going to get everyone approve of everything you do.

Or maybe the one she offended was being victimized, you know things go both ways. I worked as a host in a restaurant back in the day, and had a woman bare herself to the waist to feed her child.

originally posted by: kosmicjack
a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Ah, okay. Makes more sense now.

I breast feed both of my kids until 18 months. (And no, they weren't exclusively breast fed until that age, by then it was only before bed). I never once had a problem with anyone or anyplace. I tried to be discrete, sometimes more successfully than others, depending on the temperament of the kid at the time. But I had friends who had issues. I honestly think it's a crap shoot that depends on where you live, where you are (the sensibilities of the area you are in) and the people you encounter.

Women have been nursing babies for all of history but only now it's this HUGE thing. It's kind of hilarious. I mean, we consider ourselves so much more civilized and evolved than our ancestors.

I'll tell you this though, I think that if people understood how hard it can be to nurse successfully, they would give these women the space they need to do their thing. Astoundingly, I think some of the most vocal critics are other women who either never nursed or weren't successful at it.

And, as conspiracy theorists, I think we need to ask ourselves why is there such orchestrated, societal push-back against something so natural and beneficial to both the Mom and the baby? Who benefits from that? WHY are we even discussing this?

Because people are idiots.

Second line.

This should be a non-issue. She is feeding her kid, get over it. If you see it as a problem, the issue lies with you.

originally posted by: Scouse100
No problems here, it needs to be normalised again.

From personal experience, let me tell you how isolating it can be as a new mum feeling like you can't go out anywhere in case your baby gets hungry, panicking about finding somewhere private when she suddenly decides she wants to eat at random and short intervals, worrying what other people might think, if you are 'covered' enough, if baby will pull off the cover etc......

Fortunately with my 2nd I had a complete turn around and relaxed about the whole thing, not worrying what anyone else thought, and life was so much easier and more enjoyable for all of us.

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: Kentuckymama
Some babies will not eat with a towel over their head. Mine wouldn't. Would you?

That's what pumps and bottles are for.

It's really easy to say that but for many pumping is extremely difficult, or even impossible. Some women can't express any milk, for me it took 4 sessions of 30 min to get enough for 1 bottle (I'm sure you cansee how that is not sustainable if you want to go out once a day for any lengthof time). Not all breasfed babies will take a bottle. And most importantly, they shouldn't have to.

It's unfair to put pressure on, or try to shame breastfeeding women who are just trying to get on with their lives and feed their baby the best way they know how.

Good for you, my wife was very uncomfortable with the first, but pretty much didn't give a snip with the 2nd.

originally posted by: VoidHawk

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: kosmicjack

And, as conspiracy theorists, I think we need to ask ourselves why is there such orchestrated, societal push-back against something so natural and beneficial to both the Mom and the baby? Who benefits from that? WHY are we even discussing this?

I guess my point is do people feel this was a setup to get a reacting for that big Facebook posting? The way she did it, and was aggressive for any one to look her way to finally say some old woman looked at her and shook her head to have a friend record it all seems fishy to me than just a mother trying to feed her baby.

Thats the point I was trying to make. Feeding a child is one thing, but to deliberately thrust it into peoples faces is another and then scowl at them?!

As I've said several times in this thread, I would not have a problem with a mother feeding her child, but that woman is trying to be offensive. I'm a grandparent now, both my wife(x) and my grown up children fed their children while they were out in public, and they always took a little care to not offend those who might not like it.
Is it really so hard for that woman to be a little discreet?

I am an adult male, why would a bare female breast offend me. My wife is an adult female, and pretty sure she doesn't find her own breasts offending, why would anyone be offended? Oh wait, my husband is looking at your tits, that is what this is all about.

a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

He was under the bilirubin lights, so he spent a lot of time away. They brought him in so I could at least try to get him going, but they also supplemented him. It was plain by the time we brought him home which he liked better.

He's still headstrong, so it's not surprising now that he fought it so hard then.