Atheists object to Christmas toy drive on Air Force base – and win

originally posted by: dawnstar
lol, there was also a protion of the email that seems to be the email that came to her along with the flyer...
why don't you post that portion? I am tired of backtracking to find it. she could have left this portion out, and only attached the flyer to the email, she chose not to. so, we get that short little clip that you posted, and them about three times more talking about the precious gift of salvation through christ, and inviting the receiver to come and join them in prayer.

Oh? I haven't seen that portion.

originally posted by: awareness10

originally posted by: redoubt
a reply to: Annee

"They wanna collect toys? Don't call it Christmas."

Let me get this straight, if I may...

Toy collecting for underprivileged children is okay if the word "Christmas' is not attached but if it is... these kids can go without?

Izzat what you're saying?

This!

This is for the kids, it's the Adults who are making a stink about it simply because of what it's always been called. I'm truly ashamed sometimes to be part of the human race when i see articles like this.

If a gunman robs a bank, shoots people, but leaves the Toys for Tots bin untouched for the children --- that makes it OK?

Extreme analogy? Yes. But, what she did is against the laws of Separation of Church and State.

You are condoning her right to break the law ---- as long as the kids get their toys.

(BTW - the toy collection is not on base. This is about soliciting for religious purpose on government property).

originally posted by: awareness10

originally posted by: redoubt
a reply to: Annee

"They wanna collect toys? Don't call it Christmas."

Let me get this straight, if I may...

Toy collecting for underprivileged children is okay if the word "Christmas' is not attached but if it is... these kids can go without?

Izzat what you're saying?

This!

This is for the kids, it's the Adults who are making a stink about it simply because of what it's always been called. I'm truly ashamed sometimes to be part of the human race when i see articles like this.

Yes. And, again, I could see making a stink if Toys for Tots was refusing to donate toys to kids who weren't Christian. Or if this woman had refused to send out a similar volunteer request associated with a different religion or none at all. Or if she had required people to work the toy drive.

Those things would cause someone's rights to be violated. Seems a weak point to place the fact that she forwarded it on a government computer above the benefit of a toy drive for needy kids.

originally posted by: MotherMayEye

originally posted by: awareness10

originally posted by: redoubt
a reply to: Annee

"They wanna collect toys? Don't call it Christmas."

Let me get this straight, if I may...

Toy collecting for underprivileged children is okay if the word "Christmas' is not attached but if it is... these kids can go without?

Izzat what you're saying?

This!

This is for the kids, it's the Adults who are making a stink about it simply because of what it's always been called. I'm truly ashamed sometimes to be part of the human race when i see articles like this.

Yes. And, again, I could see making a stink if Toys for Tots was refusing to donate toys to kids who weren't Christian a

The toy drive in question was not Toys for Tots! It was Operation Christmas Child by Samaritan's Purse which is designed to proselytize children. Toys for Tots is not.

www.samaritanspurse.org...

originally posted by: MotherMayEye...toy drive for needy kids.

Once again, it was not merely that. To put it as politely as possible, it's starting to seem as if there is intentional dishonesty involved in the continuing invoking of this. Either that or people have simply not read the thread or any of the articles about this.

a reply to: Annee

F*cK the Law it's not like anyone's being shot here, bring out the Toys. What does someone robbing a bank have to do with any of this? Your making it more difficult than it needs to be. They're bloody toys kids want toys for Xmas what's the deal?

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
Yes. And, again, I could see making a stink if....

And once again, Air Force leadership on the base have stated that the email was a violation of the Joint Ethics Regulation so what you think isn't relevant.

originally posted by: MotherMayEye

originally posted by: dawnstar
lol, there was also a protion of the email that seems to be the email that came to her along with the flyer...
why don't you post that portion? I am tired of backtracking to find it. she could have left this portion out, and only attached the flyer to the email, she chose not to. so, we get that short little clip that you posted, and them about three times more talking about the precious gift of salvation through christ, and inviting the receiver to come and join them in prayer.

Oh? I haven't seen that portion.

Here it is.


"Our goal is to fill 5,000+ shoe boxes to be sent around the world as a way to show children in desperate situations that God loves and values them. Many of these children have never received a gift before. Many have never heard of God's incredible free Gift of Salvation through His Son. But a simple gift, a shoebox packed and prayed for by you could give a child hope and eternal security. Come, partner with us and CCA, be a 'missionary' filling shoebox gifts and praying over them with us"

originally posted by: DelMarvel
The toy drive in question was not Toys for Tots! It was Operation Christmas Child by Samaritan's Purse which is designed to proselytize children. Toys for Tots is not.

www.samaritanspurse.org...

I did not realize that.

"After receiving a shoebox gift, children have the opportunity to enroll in The Greatest Journey, our dynamic, 12-lesson Bible study course guiding them through what it means to faithfully follow Jesus Christ."

I don't know what they mean by 'opportunity,' but I agree it leaves a bad taste in my mouth. A kid should get a donation with no pressure or 'opportunity' for a religious teaching.

Thanks for clearing that up.

originally posted by: Jc333

originally posted by: MotherMayEye

originally posted by: dawnstar
lol, there was also a protion of the email that seems to be the email that came to her along with the flyer...
why don't you post that portion? I am tired of backtracking to find it. she could have left this portion out, and only attached the flyer to the email, she chose not to. so, we get that short little clip that you posted, and them about three times more talking about the precious gift of salvation through christ, and inviting the receiver to come and join them in prayer.

Oh? I haven't seen that portion.

Here it is.


"Our goal is to fill 5,000+ shoe boxes to be sent around the world as a way to show children in desperate situations that God loves and values them. Many of these children have never received a gift before. Many have never heard of God's incredible free Gift of Salvation through His Son. But a simple gift, a shoebox packed and prayed for by you could give a child hope and eternal security. Come, partner with us and CCA, be a 'missionary' filling shoebox gifts and praying over them with us"

Yes, I see now that this isn't Toys for Tots and it does cast things in a different light.

originally posted by: awareness10 They're bloody toys kids want toys for Xmas what's the deal?

And here's how the government financed military should do it:

The new toy which millions of needy children receive each Christmas from Marines, through the Toys for Tots program, delivers a message of hope. By being excellent role models and setting an example for others to emulate, Marines, through Toys for Tots, perform passive mentoring. Economically disadvantaged children who receive toys through the Toys for Tots program have an opportunity to observe first hand how young men and women, just like themselves, have achieved success. Youngsters readily recognize that Marines achieve their success through adherence to the highest standards of discipline, grooming, patriotism, physical fitness and moral character

Not "Here's a nice toy. Now listen while we explain to you how your only way to avoid burning in hell is Jesus Christ, or Muhammad or the Flying Spaghetti Monster."

a reply to: MotherMayEye

I want to make certain I understand your last few posts ... are you saying that you didn't understand in your numerous posts that the matter under discussion was "Operation Christmas Child" a Franklin Graham associated evangelical effort ... not "Toys for Tots"?

originally posted by: awareness10
a reply to: Annee

F*cK the Law it's not like anyone's being shot here, bring out the Toys. What does someone robbing a bank have to do with any of this? Your making it more difficult than it needs to be. They're bloody toys kids want toys for Xmas what's the deal?

You haven't read the initial post or any of the facts of the matter here either, have you?

The law you're speaking of er, trampling, is the US Constitution.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: MotherMayEye

I want to make certain I understand your last few posts ... are you saying that you didn't understand in your numerous posts that the matter under discussion was "Operation Christmas Child" a Franklin Graham associated evangelical effort ... not "Toys for Tots"?

Yes. Yes, I did.

I assumed somehow that the OCC was a church group that was running a Toys for Tots drive. I didn't realize there were any other Christmas toy donation programs. I guess I'm out of the loop.

originally posted by: awareness10
a reply to: Annee

F*cK the Law it's not like anyone's being shot here, bring out the Toys. What does someone robbing a bank have to do with any of this? Your making it more difficult than it needs to be. They're bloody toys kids want toys for Xmas what's the deal?

So much fail.

Eff the constitution, toys are more important.

Never you mind that the toys will still be collected anyway! Never you mind the kids won't go without toys anyway! Eff the law! Because toys!

Just slid pretty dang high on the list of most ignorant things I've read on ATS.

Immaculate conception... hmmm. Sounds like 'honest politician' / 'just war' / 'capitalist equality'...

a reply to: Azryael

hmm the thing about denying the existence of something is that you have to give way to the possibility that it exists in the first place to claim disbelief in it

No the problem is the way the idea of institutionalized religion impacts on them. What exists is the social construct for the religious and how it interacts with them (atheist).

isn't atheism a religion in itself?

How did you come to that brilliant conclusion?

a reply to: Murgatroid

What part of Franklin Graham's version of Christianity is toxic?

from their website-

www.samaritanspurse.org...

Operation Heal Our Patriots is a project of Samaritan’s Purse designed to strengthen the marriages of wounded and injured members of the U.S. Military....During the week, couples participate in Biblically based marriage enrichment classes,

So they're recruiting from vulnerable vets with a biblical based marriage enrichment class.

originally posted by: Bigburgh
What about us atheists that celebrate the holidays to be with family. You don't have to be a Christian to have family values.
I wish atheists like WBC would keep their hands and thoughts off of other peoples happiness.....

They don't have to do it the same day we celebrate Christ then. Why don't they just make up their own little holiday instead of trying to ruin ours.

originally posted by: ThirdEyeofHorus

originally posted by: Bigburgh
What about us atheists that celebrate the holidays to be with family. You don't have to be a Christian to have family values.
I wish atheists like WBC would keep their hands and thoughts off of other peoples happiness.....

They don't have to do it the same day we celebrate Christ then. Why don't they just make up their own little holiday instead of trying to ruin ours.

You have that backwards.

Christians usurped Pagan festivals.

a reply to: DelMarvel

It's patently ridiculous to deny children a toy just because you and your atheist friends hate Christianity. Maybe we should also eliminate some of the hideous toys on the market which promote black magic and witchcraft. An eye for an eye.