Atheists object to Christmas toy drive on Air Force base – and win

a reply to: Gryphon66

Uhm US elections are not until next year.

The insanity with poltical correct attitudes could lead to a Civil War.Utter madness and crazy and insane what is going on.

a reply to: Jobeycool

So you would be perfectly okay if the military sent something out officially that said "Allah is great, let's give toys to kids and let them know what happens to little infidels"?

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: Gryphon66

Uhm US elections are not until next year.

Really? Wow.

Perhaps you've noticed a few political debates, diatribes and such THIS year ramping up to NEXT year?

Perhaps you might take down a calandar and note that the 2016 national elections are almost exactly a year away?



Or were you just quibbling to desperately try to distract from the facts of the matter ... again?

originally posted by: Jobeycool
The insanity with poltical correct attitudes could lead to a Civil War.Utter madness and crazy and insane what is going on.

I know that the right-wing's go to phrase when they have no facts is to whine about "political correctness" ... but just how do you see this question as a matter of that?

Follow-up ... how much do the fantasies about another Civil War excite you?

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Shamrock6

I don't have any explanation for the blindness on display here except: rampant religious belief.

‘There are none so blind as those who will not see. The most deluded people are those who choose to ignore what they already know’.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Shamrock6

I don't have any explanation for the blindness on display here except: rampant religious belief.

I was raised Christian.

They do tend to be arrogant in that they're rights trump everyone else's.

Because, of course, they are "right" and everyone else is wrong.

Like Kim Davis. Screw the Constitution, I follow God's Law.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Shamrock6

I don't have any explanation for the blindness on display here except: rampant religious belief.

I was raised Christian.

They do tend to be arrogant in that they're rights trump everyone else's.

Because, of course, they are "right" and everyone else is wrong.

Like Kim Davis. Screw the Constitution, I follow God's Law.

I think we need to be careful about making generalized statements about "Christians."

According to the MRFF most of the fourteen airmen complaining about this email were also Christian.

There are many millions of Christians in the U.S. who don't agree with the aggressive evangelism and dogma of the likes of Franklin Graham.

a reply to: DelMarvel

I used to be concerned about that ... not so much any longer. I applaud your attempts to retain respect for folks.

At this point in my experience, however, the Christians who actually follow the teachings of Christ are so rare as to be comparable to unicorns in frequency.

I.e. they're virtually mythological.

It is not disrespectful but rather truthful to note that Christians of all sorts base their fundamental reality on belief rather than objective evidence. It is certainly not disrespectful in this thread to note that the Christians posting here favor a Christian theocracy over our democratic republic.

They only want others to 'get along' ... they themselves insist on getting their way much like the average petulant child.

TL;DR: Until an individual Christian proves differently, I have no problem with using the term accurately and generically.

originally posted by: DelMarvel

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Shamrock6

I don't have any explanation for the blindness on display here except: rampant religious belief.

I was raised Christian.

They do tend to be arrogant in that they're rights trump everyone else's.

Because, of course, they are "right" and everyone else is wrong.

Like Kim Davis. Screw the Constitution, I follow God's Law.

I think we need to be careful about making generalized statements about "Christians."

According to the MRFF most of the fourteen airmen complaining about this email were also Christian.

There are many millions of Christians in the U.S. who don't agree with the aggressive evangelism and dogma of the likes of Franklin Graham.

I agree. I just woke up when I posted that.

I should have said "some" and/or from personal experience.

But, it was my personal experience. Even the nicest adults I attended church with had an underlying arrogance of superiority by being attached to the "right" God.

And they were not the fundamental type.

My concern when opening this thread was not a religious one but one of great sadness for the children that will be left out.

I came from a poor family and let me tell you when you are five or six years old you are not thinking about religion or God..... you are wondering what is in the box wrapped in shiny paper... all excited and happy.... a few minutes of surprise and joy instead of searching for food and clothes at the dump.

a reply to: DeathSlayer

And yet nobody seems able to answer the question as to which children are being left out.

Curious.

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: DeathSlayer

And yet nobody seems able to answer the question as to which children are being left out.

Curious.

That is simple to answer so I guess you have never participated in a charitable event?

And I don't think I should give you the answer because if you don't know then you are here to argue and fight.

Where is your spirit of charity?

originally posted by: DeathSlayer

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: DeathSlayer

And yet nobody seems able to answer the question as to which children are being left out.

Curious.

That is simple to answer so I guess you have never participated in a charitable event?

And I don't think I should give you the answer because if you don't know then you are here to argue and fight.

Where is your spirit of charity?

I have indeed. Participated in many. Which is why I know that a church organized holiday toy drive isn't going to collapse because nobody from one command in one Air Force base showed up.

I think I'll just take your "I'm not going to answer you Scrooge" as more of a "I can't answer that so I'll make it personal."

ETA - allow me to correct myself: more than likely 14 people didn't show up from one command on one Air Force base. We really don't know how many others did or didn't show up, but I'll concede that those who complained about the email more than likely didn't participate.

It's about "the charity."

It's about "the kids."

What rot!

Take "the charity" off-base, work on it on personal time ... not the People's time.

Taa-daa.

Kids get presents and loads of Christian indoctrination in spades.

What's so wrong with Christianity that kids have to be bribed with toys to listen to the spiel?

originally posted by: Shamrock6

originally posted by: DeathSlayer

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: DeathSlayer

And yet nobody seems able to answer the question as to which children are being left out.

Curious.

That is simple to answer so I guess you have never participated in a charitable event?

And I don't think I should give you the answer because if you don't know then you are here to argue and fight.

Where is your spirit of charity?

I have indeed. Participated in many. Which is why I know that a church organized holiday toy drive isn't going to collapse because nobody from one command in one Air Force base showed up.

I think I'll just take your "I'm not going to answer you Scrooge" as more of a "I can't answer that so I'll make it personal."

ETA - allow me to correct myself: more than likely 14 people didn't show up from one command on one Air Force base. We really don't know how many others did or didn't show up, but I'll concede that those who complained about the email more than likely didn't participate.

No .......you are lying .... you have NOT been involved in many charitable events.....because one who has a charitable heart is more concerned for those less fortunate than the organization hosting it.

Like I said.... you are here to fight and argue; not to support those who are in need of help and support.

Shame on you.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
It's about "the charity."

It's about "the kids."

What rot!

Take "the charity" off-base, work on it on personal time ... not the People's time.

Taa-daa.

Kids get presents and loads of Christian indoctrination in spades.

What's so wrong with Christianity that kids have to be bribed with toys to listen to the spiel?

Excuse me? You too have no idea about charity........

Not ONE single time are children reminded who gave them these gifts whether it be games, toys, food or clothing. It is anonymous.

Your propaganda spreads hate not love.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
It's about "the charity."

It's about "the kids."

What rot!

Take "the charity" off-base, work on it on personal time ... not the People's time.

Taa-daa.

Kids get presents and loads of Christian indoctrination in spades.

What's so wrong with Christianity that kids have to be bribed with toys to listen to the spiel?

says someone who has never participated in one of the military Christmas drives...some of my fondest memories was handing those kids their toys.... not a single bit of religious propaganda in any one I was a part of.

Secondly... no military person I ran with today heard or seen a briefing about not being able to say mention or imply anything religious in an email.

What I am forbidden from doing... going to a protest in uniform... attending a public religious ceremony in uniform, attend a political rally in uniform.. being in public in uniform for a non sanctioned military event is a big nono... Email is still essentially private those rules do not apply there.

You obviously have a huge axe to grind against religion...and seem unable to separate your personal bias from the issue.

The only cardinal rule I saw broken was the 14 airmen going to a civilian organization with a complaint about their leadership.

originally posted by: DeathSlayer

originally posted by: Shamrock6

originally posted by: DeathSlayer

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: DeathSlayer

And yet nobody seems able to answer the question as to which children are being left out.

Curious.

That is simple to answer so I guess you have never participated in a charitable event?

And I don't think I should give you the answer because if you don't know then you are here to argue and fight.

Where is your spirit of charity?

I have indeed. Participated in many. Which is why I know that a church organized holiday toy drive isn't going to collapse because nobody from one command in one Air Force base showed up.

I think I'll just take your "I'm not going to answer you Scrooge" as more of a "I can't answer that so I'll make it personal."

ETA - allow me to correct myself: more than likely 14 people didn't show up from one command on one Air Force base. We really don't know how many others did or didn't show up, but I'll concede that those who complained about the email more than likely didn't participate.

No .......you are lying .... you have NOT been involved in many charitable events.....because one who has a charitable heart is more concerned for those less fortunate than the organization hosting it.

Like I said.... you are here to fight and argue; not to support those who are in need of help and support.

Shame on you.

Lmfao now I'm lying? And you know this...how? Are we acquaintances offline? How long have you known me? When did we hang out? Whatever homie.

The fact that you've now completely devolved into nothing more than "liar liar pants on fire" personal attacks shows you have no ground to stand upon. And since you have no logical position, you're left with nothing but flailing about in impotent rage with emotional responses.

The toy drive goes on with or without the Air Force. The airmen in that command can 100% participate in the toy drive if they wish to. Children will still receive toys at Christmas, along with the message of "god's love." None of your emotionally charged ranting changes that, because those are actual facts.

Should you stumble upon any actual facts or data, feel free to reach out to me. I'm not interested in made up scenarios and personal attacks in lieu of actual content.

originally posted by: Irishhaf

originally posted by: Gryphon66
It's about "the charity."

It's about "the kids."

What rot!

Take "the charity" off-base, work on it on personal time ... not the People's time.

Taa-daa.

Kids get presents and loads of Christian indoctrination in spades.

What's so wrong with Christianity that kids have to be bribed with toys to listen to the spiel?

says someone who has never participated in one of the military Christmas drives...some of my fondest memories was handing those kids their toys.... not a single bit of religious propaganda in any one I was a part of.

Secondly... no military person I ran with today heard or seen a briefing about not being able to say mention or imply anything religious in an email.

What I am forbidden from doing... going to a protest in uniform... attending a public religious ceremony in uniform, attend a political rally in uniform.. being in public in uniform for a non sanctioned military event is a big nono... Email is still essentially private those rules do not apply there.

You obviously have a huge axe to grind against religion...and seem unable to separate your personal bias from the issue.

The only cardinal rule I saw broken was the 14 airmen going to a civilian organization with a complaint about their leadership.

Exactly......!!

I have been involved with the US military for 35 years and NEVER is religion brought up! It is about the children!