Atheists object to Christmas toy drive on Air Force base – and win

a reply to: EternalSolace



My BFF is an atheist and a social worker for the state government. You better believe he hits up the local churches and Toys for Tots at Christmas for the kids he works with. No one advocates for children and families like him. He has helped make Christmas so much better for so many kids.

At Easter, he has been known to go to the projects and hide eggs in the run down yards in front of the apartment buildings.

He would never deny a toy or present to a non-Christian child.

Personally, I think any government agency helping to bring toys to kids is great...as long as no child is excluded based on religion.

originally posted by: Metallicus
a reply to: Gryphon66

Why does this toy drive offend you so much? I am not Christian or even religious. Frankly it could be Muslims collecting toys for kids and it still wouldn't bother me. It is so petty and stupid to be upset by this.

I am not at all offended or angered by the toy drive; I believe in the Constitution and the Separation of Church and State.

Period.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Metallicus
a reply to: Gryphon66

So, no religious freedom for atheists or anyone you personally disagree with, only Christians?

Finally an Atheist admits that they are indeed a religion. Thank you.

There'd have to be dogma and a book of belief.

Don't have either.

You guys definitely have a dogma and an agenda.

Besides I didn't say it, talk to Gryphon66.

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: Metallicus

Even if those gifts came with the preaching of Muhammad? Courtesy of your government?

Why would it matter or bother me if they did?

It doesn't.

originally posted by: EternalSolace
a reply to: Shamrock6

Because the rest of the message were not her words. It was an attachment. Her words were specifically:

Team FSS GREAT VOLUNTEER OPPORTUNITY!!!!!!
See info below -- Local Point of Contact: Our very own Mr Renee
Valladeres in Civilian Personnel at 6774654

No where, in her words, did she endorse religion.


It's no different than people providing information on a topic in a thread here on ATS. Providing information on a topic does not necessarily mean an endorsement of said topic.

You do realize that military members and government employees live under different rules than the average American?

a reply to: Metallicus

It's the government preaching to the children. It really doesn't bother you?

originally posted by: Metallicus

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Metallicus
a reply to: Gryphon66

So, no religious freedom for atheists or anyone you personally disagree with, only Christians?

Finally an Atheist admits that they are indeed a religion. Thank you.

There'd have to be dogma and a book of belief.

Don't have either.

You guys definitely have a dogma and an agenda.

Besides I didn't say it, talk to Gryphon66.

I doubt Gryphon stated atheism is a religion.

Link please to atheist dogma and "bible".

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Gryphon66

Government is not establishing a religion. That would mean a concerted effort made by the government to put on religion up above all others.

Simply allowing government employees to participate in charitable activities and pass information about them from their place of work is not government endorsement of religion. At the level you are talking about, simply asking your fellow employees to help with a private school fundraiser for your children if that private school happens to be religious in nature would be "government endorsement of religion."

OMG! I bought some candles from Sgt. Smith's kids, but they go to St. Mary's ... how dare he endorse religion by selling candles for his kids school? Isn't that endorsing religion?

Sgt Smith soliciting you on government property would violate military regs, especially if those he solicited were those who held lower rank than he. The military and the federal government live by a different set of rules, which are explained very carefully when you enlist or accept employment.

Funny, I haven't even purchased any Halloween candy yet, perhaps that is the issue?

Happy Harmonica

originally posted by: Metallicus

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: Metallicus

Even if those gifts came with the preaching of Muhammad? Courtesy of your government?

Why would it matter or bother me if they did?

It doesn't.

Well, gee - you're "different". Most on here are scared to death of sharia law taking over, or God forbid, a Muslim ever becoming POTUS. I think if most found out that the government was endorsing free gifts to kids as part of an attempt to convert them to Islam, they would be having seizures.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Metallicus

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Metallicus
a reply to: Gryphon66

So, no religious freedom for atheists or anyone you personally disagree with, only Christians?

Finally an Atheist admits that they are indeed a religion. Thank you.

There'd have to be dogma and a book of belief.

Don't have either.

You guys definitely have a dogma and an agenda.

Besides I didn't say it, talk to Gryphon66.

I doubt Gryphon stated atheism is a religion.

Link please to atheist dogma and "bible".

www.humanistbible.com...

Man does not live in a world ruled by gods, devils and angels. He lives in a world ruled by his own animal nature, human nature and human will. The greatest tragedy for western man occurred when he turned from Greek rationalism and took for truth Hebrew mysticism, a religious/ethnic cult of superiority and tribal exclusivity. While the ancient Hebrews were expressing the primitive mind of man with the creation of their Bible, nearby the Greeks were expressing the modern mind of man by using reason to create logic, mathematics and science.

The five elements of humanism are nature, humanity, human reason, human nature and human will. Nature is all and all is nature. It is all that cares for and provides for humanity. Its temple is the celestial dome. It asks for no prayers or supplications. Many of the secrets of nature have been discovered by brave men who resisted the restrictions of the religious cults. However, progress has been slowed by the power of the cults. Progress is still hampered today because of the dominion cults have over the minds of a good portion of humanity.

Human reason allows Man to examine, compare, discriminate and create ideas, theories, laws and conclusions without the influence of any religious, spiritual or supernatural writings, theories or traditions. Human nature is the glory of evolution. It is the genetic gift that sets humans apart from the animals. Humanity also has an animal nature but in addition has a human nature that provides it with consciousness, will, conscience, empathy, pity and charity. Human will is the element in human nature that allows mankind to choose between its animal nature and its human nature. Will is the critical element in human nature that creates the modern human.

originally posted by: infolurker

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Metallicus

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Metallicus
a reply to: Gryphon66

So, no religious freedom for atheists or anyone you personally disagree with, only Christians?

Finally an Atheist admits that they are indeed a religion. Thank you.

There'd have to be dogma and a book of belief.

Don't have either.

You guys definitely have a dogma and an agenda.

Besides I didn't say it, talk to Gryphon66.

I doubt Gryphon stated atheism is a religion.

Link please to atheist dogma and "bible".

www.humanistbible.com...

Man does not live in a world ruled by gods, devils and angels. He lives in a world ruled by his own animal nature, human nature and human will. The greatest tragedy for western man occurred when he turned from Greek rationalism and took for truth Hebrew mysticism, a religious/ethnic cult of superiority and tribal exclusivity. While the ancient Hebrews were expressing the primitive mind of man with the creation of their Bible, nearby the Greeks were expressing the modern mind of man by using reason to create logic, mathematics and science.

The five elements of humanism are nature, humanity, human reason, human nature and human will. Nature is all and all is nature. It is all that cares for and provides for humanity. Its temple is the celestial dome. It asks for no prayers or supplications. Many of the secrets of nature have been discovered by brave men who resisted the restrictions of the religious cults. However, progress has been slowed by the power of the cults. Progress is still hampered today because of the dominion cults have over the minds of a good portion of humanity.

Human reason allows Man to examine, compare, discriminate and create ideas, theories, laws and conclusions without the influence of any religious, spiritual or supernatural writings, theories or traditions. Human nature is the glory of evolution. It is the genetic gift that sets humans apart from the animals. Humanity also has an animal nature but in addition has a human nature that provides it with consciousness, will, conscience, empathy, pity and charity. Human will is the element in human nature that allows mankind to choose between its animal nature and its human nature. Will is the critical element in human nature that creates the modern human.

Interesting thing is, just because someone writes it, doesn't mean anyone pays any attention to it, for example, I have never read a romance novel.

originally posted by: EternalSolace
a reply to: Shamrock6

Because the rest of the message were not her words. It was an attachment. Her words were specifically:

Team FSS GREAT VOLUNTEER OPPORTUNITY!!!!!!
See info below -- Local Point of Contact: Our very own Mr Renee
Valladeres in Civilian Personnel at 6774654

No where, in her words, did she endorse religion.


It's no different than people providing information on a topic in a thread here on ATS. Providing information on a topic does not necessarily mean an endorsement of said topic.

Except it DOES matter in a military command, utilizing DoD email to do so.

Whether you like it or not, the command can't even give the hint of an appearance that they endorse a religious activity like this. Had she cut off the forward, like your selective edit did, this would be a completely different story. The fact remains that she did NOT selectively edit the forward like you did, and ergo she gave the impression it was something the command was involved in.

The DoD policy on email pretty explicitly lays out what you can and can't do, what is and isn't permissible, and you have to acknowledge that policy before being granted access. She violated the policy with her email. That's the end of it. The rest of this is all politicized ranting and wailing.

"But think of the children!"

originally posted by: JimNasium
Funny, I haven't even purchased any Halloween candy yet, perhaps that is the issue?

Happy Harmonica

Happy Harmonica to you as well, have bought no candy either, but think I will pass out tastings from the black bull I sacrificed to Jupiter on my smoker.

a reply to: infolurker

A guy writes a book and entitles it Humanist Bible --- really doesn't mean anything. There's no information on this guy.

Link you provided seems to be more of a blog excerpting from a book entitled: "The Good Book" that has a subtitle "Humanist Bible". From author A C Grayling, a British Philosopher.

a reply to: Kryties

No they can't. Because thier tolerance doesn't extend passed thier own "tolerance". They can't "tolerate" people that "believe", they are ignorant. Which they are. These are the same people that ask..when it all hits the fan. .."Where were the Christians" and "believers"? To give?...now days normal is a man on a leash being held by another man, parading down the streets of some, California city. .. America deserves whatever she gets.

originally posted by: BubbaJoe

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: BubbaJoe

originally posted by: Metallicus

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Metallicus

So, you're against the Constitution?

It's fine for the government to ignore religious freedom (and freedom from religion) if it feels good to you?

Nope.

Religious freedom means freedom from religion as well.

I disagree that freedom OF religion equates to freedom FROM religion.

So if I choose to worship Satan at an alter in my back yard, and Christians burn down my house and kill my family, that would be ok with you?

And that has what to with "of" v "from?"

Because those that agree with "OF", don't seem to think that some of us don't want to listen to their BS, however anytime this topic is brought up, those of us that believe in "FROM" are hammered by the douche weasels on the "OF" side.

Gotcha, you don't want to listen to us? Well, we don't want to listen to you, either.

But the magical thing about email is that it has this button ... it's called "delete."

originally posted by: Metallicus
a reply to: Gryphon66

Why does this toy drive offend you so much? I am not Christian or even religious. Frankly it could be Muslims collecting toys for kids and it still wouldn't bother me. It is so petty and stupid to be upset by this.

Maybe I should go post the story about that creepy cult in New York that ended up beating a teenage boy to death and then they could go channel their anti-Christian rage into a more appropriate thread?

As it is, it kind of blows that whole "all the atheists I know are more compassionate and giving than Christians" thing out of the water reading this thread.

There is no "seperation of church and state". Only a "no establishment" provision. If you want to seperate Church an State. You'd have to kill all that believe in a creator. No such law was ever writen, sold or emplied.... So doing good is "taboo" if one believes it's thier Christian duty? But if they believed in a "Gaia" that's all cool...right? Idiots.

a reply to: DeathSlayer

Well, that group has shown it's real position now, hasn't it? They don't care about the kids; all they care about is prohibiting anyone from acting in a way they don't like. They are fascists.