Black/Urban English? Is the inability to speak correctly contributeing to unemployment?

originally posted by: Thecakeisalie
a reply to: crazyewok

Binning? Binned? and yet you accuse prospective employees of having poor communication skills!

No worries mate, i'll call a spade a spade and i'll work in weather that'll freeze the balls of a brass monkey, but mums the word and this job seems like a sticky wicket...

So? you could still clearing understand the meaning of what I said.

There is a vast diffrence between a dyslexic typo done on a I phone touch pad on a forum to completely makeing up words and talking slang in a professional setting,

originally posted by: Thecakeisalie
a reply to: crazyewok

Binning? Binned? and yet you accuse prospective employees of having poor communication skills!

No worries mate, i'll call a spade a spade and i'll work in weather that'll freeze the balls off a brass monkey, but mums the word and this job seems like a sticky wicket...

a reply to: crazyewok

You know, I got to thinking since you live in the UK...

This whole thing reminds me of Sasha Choen's "Ali-G" character. I couldn't help but chuckle when I pictured you trying to do interviews and candidate after candidate was another version of Ali-G.

Was talking to someone about this subject at the airport a couple of weeks ago. They are very high in management and the company is tired of getting sued for not hiring unqualified people. They are going to start counter suing to recoup the cost.

We have so many people that apply for customer service that can't put a sentence together

originally posted by: crazyewok
I run a small buisness in the south London area. And I have noticed the extreme lack of communication skills among the black community.

I am binning around 8 out of 10 black applicants applications after speaking to them, not due to them being black, but there inability to string a coherent sentence together. In fact I have noticed this "urban" talk in some white candidates too, though not to the same extent, and resulting in equal binned applications.

Coming from the USA...What does "Binning" mean?

Yes. It contributes to unemployment. No, it is not exclusive to Blacks..

Any community that is cloistered by economics or culture has issue...

While I can easily understand the Queens English...I have traveled to London and Edinburgh and often thought ...WTF did they say?

A heavy Cockney accent or Scottish brogue makes English incomprehensible to the average "Yank".

Also spent time in the south and New Orleans where I practically needed a translator.

My point being that "black" has nothing to do with it. Yes it effects employment. Communities that are isolated and develop their own peculiarities develop these things.

And what the hell is Brad Pitt speaking here?

a reply to: crazyewok


Also..I personally interview maybe 50-100 people a year in my role.

If it is a technical role...engineering...I care less about communication skills. I screen them for technical chops.

If it is Customer Service or Sales...then communication skills are critical.

I have hired engineers who rock, but have very poor communication skills.

What are you hiring for?

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: crazyewok
I run a small buisness in the south London area. And I have noticed the extreme lack of communication skills among the black community.

I am binning around 8 out of 10 black applicants applications after speaking to them, not due to them being black, but there inability to string a coherent sentence together. In fact I have noticed this "urban" talk in some white candidates too, though not to the same extent, and resulting in equal binned applications.

Coming from the USA...What does "Binning" mean?

I can perhaps assist, it means to place into a waste bin. I guess in the USA you may have said 'I am trashing'

Ignorance runs rampant. Learning to speak is essential !!

a reply to: crazyewok

I run a small buisness in the south London area. And I have noticed the extreme lack of communication skills among the black community.

Forgive me if this has been mentioned before and I missed it; but which Black community are you speaking of?

There are any Black communities here in the US, and I am sure even in the UK, where the King's English is not only the order of the day, but anything less will get you a tongue lashing in that oft considered, stiffing and bourgeois, language, complete with the tone and presence.


Language is about communication, and when people speak to each other, words in their standard form and usage, does not always get the point across in the way the person doing the talking wishes it to be conveyed. Often times words alone are inadequate, so facial expressions, hand, and body gestures will come into play. In local areas some single word or groups of words mean something completely different from the actually words spoken. For instance, when a sweet Southern lady says to you, "Well, bless your little heart." She may not think you sweet at all, and is not truly blessing you.


Some words develop from an event that holds a special meaning for many that were involved, and passed down. I had a co-worker, Julia. Every other word out of her mouth was a cuss word. I had another co-worker, from the Philippines, that had no idea half of what Julia said, would be considered offensive. So when she became angry with her husband, which was a rare occasion in itself, imagine the shock he experienced when she told him, "Just forget it1" "Just pocket!" Of course we laughed for days and Pocket became the main word of our vocabulary. Surprisingly enough, even for Julia.


I used to live near and worked in place called Little Havana. I communicated with the residents there without difficulty, and never realized anything was unusual about our communications until one day when speaking with a friend at the counter of a local diner, we overheard a patron asking the waitress what language we were speaking. I was taken aback, so I turned to look at the gentleman with this puzzled look on my face, just in time to see the puzzled look on the face of the waitress face as she told him, "English!" He said really? It doesn't sound like any English I have ever heard before. After listening with a focused ear, I realized for the first time, that we were all speaking a broken English, heavily peppered with Spanish. We had with time, without meaning to, morphed the local language into what some people commonly refer to as "Spanglish". I had to laugh. I apologized to the gentleman, and tried to explain to him what he was hearing.


Patois is usually the main language decorated with the provincial flavorings of the residents in a local area. It may indeed sound strange to the untrained ear, but once you catch the rhythm of it, it is pretty easy to pick up on, if you know the main language, and it can become addicting.

Some people have lived in their local Providences for so long, they don't even realize their speech is different, until they are not understood. Notice that the patois speaker knows exactly what you are saying. They are very familiar with their main language and they hear it all day. It is when they speak in their local patois and "you" don't understand them that the communication starts to breakdown. Some will even call you stupid, because they understand you perfectly and you don't understand them, so you must be the stupid one.

Yelling at them, "Why don't you speak proper ..whatever.., is not going to get you anywhere because, they have already dismissed you as dense. So again it is an issue of lack of communication. Even when the people speak exactly the same language, dialect or patois, it doesn't mean there will be communication.

Communication requires listening and hearing before speaking. It is a rare art form that has fallen out of favor.

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: crazyewok
I run a small buisness in the south London area. And I have noticed the extreme lack of communication skills among the black community.

I am binning around 8 out of 10 black applicants applications after speaking to them, not due to them being black, but there inability to string a coherent sentence together. In fact I have noticed this "urban" talk in some white candidates too, though not to the same extent, and resulting in equal binned applications.

Coming from the USA...What does "Binning" mean?

I can perhaps assist, it means to place into a waste bin. I guess in the USA you may have said 'I am trashing'

Makes sense. Here in the USA we also say "canned" -- as in trash can.

"My brother got canned from his job last week" or "We canned that idea..."

So garbage bin/trash can -- we both are really just referring to the receptacle the waste goes into. That one's pretty straight forward....I know there's some slang from the UK I don't understand...HM, I can't remember right now ...

a reply to: Indigo5

We call them pikeys in the UK.

99% of us here cant understand them.

Hell brad pitts plays it down, infact they normally dont waste time talking when they can be thieving

originally posted by: Indigo5
a reply to: crazyewok


Also..I personally interview maybe 50-100 people a year in my role.

If it is a technical role...engineering...I care less about communication skills. I screen them for technical chops.

If it is Customer Service or Sales...then communication skills are critical.

I have hired engineers who rock, but have very poor communication skills.

What are you hiring for?

Dealing with phone calls from international chemical suppliers.

So precise and clear communication skills are vital.

a reply to: Indigo5

O yeah I guess in the USA instead of bin you would say trash.

Though trashed here normaly stands for getting drunk.....in fact we here we use almost any word to describe getting drunk......





But what do you expect from a nation of piss heads!

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: crazyewok
I run a small buisness in the south London area. And I have noticed the extreme lack of communication skills among the black community.

I am binning around 8 out of 10 black applicants applications after speaking to them, not due to them being black, but there inability to string a coherent sentence together. In fact I have noticed this "urban" talk in some white candidates too, though not to the same extent, and resulting in equal binned applications.

Coming from the USA...What does "Binning" mean?

I can perhaps assist, it means to place into a waste bin. I guess in the USA you may have said 'I am trashing'

To place them in the "Circular File" is what I hear most often.

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: crazyewok
I run a small buisness in the south London area. And I have noticed the extreme lack of communication skills among the black community.

I am binning around 8 out of 10 black applicants applications after speaking to them, not due to them being black, but there inability to string a coherent sentence together. In fact I have noticed this "urban" talk in some white candidates too, though not to the same extent, and resulting in equal binned applications.

Coming from the USA...What does "Binning" mean?

I can perhaps assist, it means to place into a waste bin. I guess in the USA you may have said 'I am trashing'

Actually, its "circular file".

originally posted by: vettex2
Ignorance runs rampant. Learning to speak is essential !!

Yes!

And it involves so much more then just speaking/conversation.

Letter writing, résumés, forms, any kind of communication.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: crazyewok

Where I am, on the North shore of the Thames Estuary, colour means nothing. The communications problem being experienced by the kids is across the board, no matter their background or heritage. Its only the rare few who respect our language and enjoy it enough to speak it correctly.

Actually comeing back to your point......

Bortis Johnson. ......Do Ineed to say anymore?


God forbid him becoming PM!

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: Indigo5
a reply to: crazyewok


Also..I personally interview maybe 50-100 people a year in my role.

If it is a technical role...engineering...I care less about communication skills. I screen them for technical chops.

If it is Customer Service or Sales...then communication skills are critical.

I have hired engineers who rock, but have very poor communication skills.

What are you hiring for?

Dealing with phone calls from international chemical suppliers.

So precise and clear communication skills are vital.

Ya...then communication skills are critical, multi-lingual skills around where most of your clients are centered is a bonus.

I have been hiring for almost 30 years. One thing I have learned is that it is dangerous to assume anything from a name on a resume. I can call a Joe Smith and find out he can barely speak English and I can call an Akbad Al-Jassad and find out he is second generation American, likes to surf and can't speak a lick of Arabic. It's a diverse world...communication skills matter...Black, white, fat, skinny...green with polka dots...I just look for what the job requires.

Yes communication skills matter...Yes, anyone looking for a job needs to adapt their communication style and skills to apply to the job they are seeking. Nothing racist with that. I have told job candidates point blank that I have a hard time understanding them and I am not confident my clients will either...work on it and try again later if you want this kind of job.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: vettex2
Ignorance runs rampant. Learning to speak is essential !!

Yes!

And it involves so much more then just speaking/conversation.

Letter writing, résumés, forms, any kind of communication.

Lord...the mistakes I have seen on resumes!

And my wife has had to hire grade-school teachers before ...and yes...you would not believe the number of TEACHERS that put together a resume rife with spelling errors!!

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: vettex2
Ignorance runs rampant. Learning to speak is essential !!

Yes!

And it involves so much more then just speaking/conversation.

Letter writing, résumés, forms, any kind of communication.

Lord...the mistakes I have seen on resumes!

And my wife has had to hire grade-school teachers before ...and yes...you would not believe the number of TEACHERS that put together a resume rife with spelling errors!!

Ugh!

With spell check and everything done for you electronically today - - - there is no excuse.