Black/Urban English? Is the inability to speak correctly contributeing to unemployment?

I run a small buisness in the south London area. And I have noticed the extreme lack of communication skills among the black community.

I am binning around 8 out of 10 black applicants applications after speaking to them, not due to them being black, but there inability to string a coherent sentence together. In fact I have noticed this "urban" talk in some white candidates too, though not to the same extent, and resulting in equal binned applications.

Why is this?

Surely one must realise that urban "English " is not correct for the work place, interviews and especially not CV's?

Surely one can not expect to be employable with such poor communication skills?

Is this one of the reasons behind current black poverty and unemployment? Has a innercity culture incompatible with the job market established itself?

Is the poor communication skills driving the problems in community integration?


PS
I know it may be rich comings from dyslexic me! But I am not talking missing a letter here or there, useing a comma instead of a full stop or getting the odd i and e round the wrong way on a message board. Im talking barely legible spoken or written English here on CV's and interviews .

originally posted by: crazyewok
I run a small buisness in the south London area. And I have noticed the extreme lack of communication skills among the black community.

I am binning around 8 out of 10 black applicants applications after speaking to them, not due to them being black, but there inability to string a coherent sentence together. In fact I have noticed this "urban" talk in some white candidates too, though not to the same extent, and resulting in equal binned applications.

Why is this?

Surely one must realise that urban "English " is not correct for the work place, interviews and especially not CV's?

Surely one can not expect to be employable with such poor communication skills?

Is this one of the reasons behind current black poverty and unemployment? Has a innercity culture incompatible with the job market established itself?

Is the poor communication skills driving the problems in community integration?


PS
I know it may be rich comings from dyslexic me! But I am not talking missing a letter here or there, useing a comma instead of a full stop or getting the odd i and e round the wrong way on a message board. Im talking barely legible spoken or written English here on CV's and interviews .

Yes, urban english and culture is incompatible with the work place. Far too many blacks do not know how to speak properly. I am black and often considered myself bi-lingual. You would never know I'm black if you talked to me on the phone. However, when I'm around friends or find myself back in the hood, I drop the pretense and revert back to slang as necessary.

Unfortunately, many poorer blacks view speaking proper english as "talking white".

Combine this with the twitter generation where no one can write more than 140 characters without using emoticons and you have a disaster in the making.

Other things I see that keep people from finding jobs. Made up ghetto names. Neck tattoos. Crazy hair styles. Dressing inappropriately. Unfortunately, many of these people have never been exposed so they simply don't know any better.

a reply to: Edumakated

O god dont get me started on emoticons......I had someone with apparently a Bsc put a few in her CV........

A BA degree maybe....but a Bsc?


You may have a point about not wanting to "talking white"which is sad as it means them being trapped into poverty by there own racism.

a reply to: crazyewok

Crappy parents, crappy schools, bare innit bruv

Totally agree. I stepped hard on slang/dropped T's/etc with my son when he was speaking to me or his mother. I read to him every day when he was little and instilled an absolute culture of speaking appropriately in any given situation.

Now a young adult he can sound like a chav lad with his mates, but can bull# his way through any educated circles simply because he knows how to speak correctly when it benefits him.

I despair when I see how poorly some young people communicate these days, well, despair is too strong, they aren't my kids so tough luck I guess.

Im sure it doesn't help, out here in the states it is the south in general I think, everyone speaks a little different out there.

Having been in the position of hiring and firing for many years, one of the first things I looked for was communication skills. The ability to formulate coherent sentences, and understand them in return. But then, I was hiring those folks for customer service. If I was hiring them for warehouse work, and they were at least understandable, and could follow directions, I might have gone easier. In the U.S. this is not strictly a black problem. It comes in all flavors. Though it does seem more common with certain groups.

a reply to: crazyewok

edit, nvm, re read the OP.

a reply to: crazyewok

Two friends in Liverpool told me they occasionally met up with an old school friend when they were doing business. They were both perplexed by the changes he went through. As youngsters they were scallies together, race wasn't noticed, they grew up together as mates.

When this young man reached about fifteen he went over to mixing only with other darker skinned Liverpudlians. His way of talking changed until they could hardly understand him. They were really perplexed. None of them had ever fallen out, but he became a stranger to them.

The question that hung in the air was why did he choose to alter his way of talking until he couldn't be understood, except by his group. Unlearning the ability to communicate after his parents had gone to the effort of teaching him.

It's not just black youth. It's that urban street language that I hear in my own town in Oxfordshire (not really an urban town.When I was working in a youth club I was constantly telling the kids they weren't gangsters and that no one would employ them talking like that. It's no wonder why Eastern Europeans with English as a second language get more than just the factory jobs in the uk. They work harder and speak the native language better English than the natives

I received a resume last year and, under experience, the person listed, this is verbatim, 'Helping day customers wit day bags.'

This person, sadly, will never have meaningful employment.

originally posted by: Sremmos80
Im sure it doesn't help, out here in the states it is the south in general I think, everyone speaks a little different out there.

I have to disagree about pinning it on the south.

Ebonics is a problem in the north east as well. It's hard to hire someone regardless of their skin color, when they choose to speak in a language that is common to the street. It doesn't work in a business atmosphere where one must interact with the public.

Slang speech when interviewing with me was an instant NO HIRE!

originally posted by: Sremmos80
Im sure it doesn't help, out here in the states it is the south in general I think, everyone speaks a little different out there.

I dont know....love the North/South Carolina , Geogia and even Texas accent.....

The Alabama and Lousinana ascent though.....well best I say nothing incase I offend any ATS from there.....thats if they have the internet there

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

I received a resume last year and, under experience, the person listed, this is verbatim, 'Helping day customers wit day bags.'

This person, sadly, will never have meaningful employment.

O god. That has minimum wage for life written all over it!

a reply to: Edumakated

Well said. Its almost a separate reality insomuch as the top 1% is to the average man.

In its own way, it's very much a caste system and is generally very difficult to change ones stars when one has to "fit in" with their collective. It's survival, what's more, is watching others outside the ghetto trying to "fit in". The problem is a lack of education, and the education system offering said knowledge is neither attainable or generally useful.

It's easy to lose sight of the bigger picture when one looks at individual social strains. For instance, blacks are predominantly less educated than whites because they are predominately from urban settings. Drugs and crime is high and some places like North Philly (at least back in the day) was not a place to wonder alone, at night period, pray you're not white either. Where do those drugs originate? How do they get shipped here? I wonder if the CIA still makes profit?..

You know, I wonder how many "kingpins" are currently government informants. It's a ruse as the difference between Jews and Muslims, Christians and Communists, blacks or whites. In order for one to be pitted against the other we need to see the other as different, if they're not different, by God we make them different.

Anyone for a sex change?

I actually saw a job opening at the FBI a couple of years ago for a "translator". I almost applied for it. The job was essentially the FBI was looking for people who could translate urban slang for wire taps, etc. I guess when they were tapping the phones of drug dealers and other urban criminals and the FBI was having a hard time understanding the conversations! LOL.

All urban slang isn't the same though.

East coast slang is a little different from west coast. Southern urban slang is a completely different animal. When I was in college, we often joked about the different urban slang of classmates from different US geographies. Regardless, knowing how to turn it off and speak proper english is a must.

however, if you don't have parents who read to you often or force it on you, I can see how even innately intelligent people in the hood never learn how to speak properly.

originally posted by: woodwardjnr
It's not just black youth. It's that urban street language that I hear in my own town in Oxfordshire (not really an urban town.When I was working in a youth club I was constantly telling the kids they weren't gangsters and that no one would employ them talking like that. It's no wonder why Eastern Europeans with English as a second language get more than just the factory jobs in the uk. They work harder and speak the native language better English than the natives

No I agree. In fact my inability to find English citizens that can speak correctly in the area will likely mean me takeing people from Europe. In fact one job has already gone to a Pole as there English is better than mine!

a reply to: crazyewok

There was two pages of writing like that and at first I thought it was one of my counterparts having fun with me.

I then realized it was authentic and I felt kind of sad for this person, who depsite trying to get a job, would most likely never get one due to their inability to communicate properly.

a reply to: crazyewok

Just a sidenote in re to here in the US...

There was a recent study that made headlines about how current education levels required for high school graduation compared to those in decades past. According to this study, HS grads *currently carry the education of an 8th or 9th grader from the '50s and '60s.

*Ref: It's been about a half-dozen years. I'm gonna do some digging and see if I can find a web reference to this.

originally posted by: crazyewok
a reply to: Edumakated

O god dont get me started on emoticons......I had someone with apparently a Bsc put a few in her CV........

A BA degree maybe....but a Bsc?


You may have a point about not wanting to "talking white"which is sad as it means them being trapped into poverty by there own racism.

Received pronunciation is always a tricky one, but if a role is in some level of customer service, or anywhere where you need to communicate with someone then you fairly much need to have a fairly comprehensible vocal style. To say this is something that is only an issue with people of a certain colour is pushing it a bit (some white people close to me go into some weird dialect because they think it gives them 'cred') - do it in your social life, why not, but if you want the job you're applying for, then go for the norm.

Of course, our 'norm' wouldn't have been normal a century or two ago so we should be a little cautious about what is the right way to talk.

If you're black and don't speak ebonics you are laughed at or looked at as an Uncle Tom. It is #ing ridiculous but it really is hard to fault them when no one is there in the first place to teach them. At some point the responsibility falls on the individual.