Black/Urban English? Is the inability to speak correctly contributeing to unemployment?

a reply to: MrCrow

Perhaps the "Urban English" is more sophisticated and more intelligent than "proper" English. Perhaps the reason is the ability to say more with less, or the ability to make a statement without being harassed not at what was said, but how it was said. Am I right OP? OP was trying make a statement and most replies focused on how the statement was made, and not the statement itself. Perhaps "proper" English is slowing us down.

a reply to: mikemars261

So what you are saying is they are too stupid to understand real English so it has to be dumbed down for them?

a reply to: uncommitted

I think the difference is that where as Shakespeare helped to create the language as it is spoken, and his work represented an evolution of the language, street culture's effect on the language today, is regressive, not progressive. The evidence for that is as follows:

When Shakespeare made his changes and his additions to the English language, he did so from a position of knowledge of the pre-existing, and much looser, less codified variant spoken at the time. He expanded the lexicon from which words were chosen, showed people that words could be used differently and to BETTER effect than had been the case previously. However, street culture and the gutter talk associated with it, is a creation of those whose understanding of the pre-existing format of the English language is virtually non-existent, and does not expand upon it, but reduces it to a series of artless grunts and half syllables.

Essentially participation in street culture to the point of taking on its nomenclature and vernacular, is to entirely ignore, or be unwittingly ignorant of the pre-existing format of the language we speak, its beauty and versatility. If persons involved in street culture could also converse with a member of society who was well versed in the use of the actual English language, then it would be easier to believe that street speak was an evolution of what came before, rather than an abandonment and desecration of it. However, I have been confronted by persons so linguistically challenged, that they could not read this post, or for that matter, converse with me for more than a single sentences length, without becoming totally confused by the vocabulary alone, let alone the overarching gist of what I was actually trying to say in the first place.

This is clear evidence that there is no advancement being made, no lesson being learned by the use of this new linguistic format, rather the opposite, that street speak is ruining the ability of those who partake of it, to understand, leave alone enjoy the English language as it already exists. This is setting those individuals back, removing from them opportunities they have every reason to expect to engage with later in life, and all because they would rather involve themselves in an anti-culture, than be seen to spend time doing something as prosaic and mundane as learning.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

No, what I'm saying is people don't realize that language is constantly evolving and what worked for people 300 years ago might not be necessary anymore. Maybe we shouldn't be wasting time arguing over "to too and two" because seriously... who cares? Perhaps learning the English language is a pretty stupid thing to do, given that there are far more concise and less confusing languages, like sanskrit. Is everyone here just intolerant? Just because they don't speak like you doesn't mean you need to figure out how to "fix that". I've never met a person I couldn't talk to, can't see how this could possibly contribute to unemployment.

a reply to: TrueBrit

Eloquently put my good man! Have a star.

originally posted by: mikemars261
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

No, what I'm saying is people don't realize that language is constantly evolving and what worked for people 300 years ago might not be necessary anymore. Maybe we shouldn't be wasting time arguing over "to too and two" because seriously... who cares? Perhaps learning the English language is a pretty stupid thing to do, given that there are far more concise and less confusing languages, like sanskrit. Is everyone here just intolerant? Just because they don't speak like you doesn't mean you need to figure out how to "fix that". I've never met a person I couldn't talk to, can't see how this could possibly contribute to unemployment.

We are not talking about to and too's but the complete illegible writing and speech of some inner city youth.

a reply to: mikemars261

Sanskrit? What the heck are you trying to say. It seems like you have no point other than to be a contrarian.

To, too, and two have different meanings. Just because words are phonetically similar does not mean we should not know the difference. You are saying let's dumb down the language .. just because.

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: mikemars261
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

No, what I'm saying is people don't realize that language is constantly evolving and what worked for people 300 years ago might not be necessary anymore. Maybe we shouldn't be wasting time arguing over "to too and two" because seriously... who cares? Perhaps learning the English language is a pretty stupid thing to do, given that there are far more concise and less confusing languages, like sanskrit. Is everyone here just intolerant? Just because they don't speak like you doesn't mean you need to figure out how to "fix that". I've never met a person I couldn't talk to, can't see how this could possibly contribute to unemployment.

We are not talking about to and too's but the complete illegible writing and speech of some inner city youth.

Oh yes it is so much worse .. but to openly argue that people should NOT know the difference between to and two is insanity.

a reply to: mikemars261

Who cares? I do. In my opinion, if you can't learn speak/spell/write etc. properly, then, if I was an employer that says to me that the person in question is unable to learn and therefore not fit to be employed in my company.

originally posted by: mikemars261
a reply to: MrCrow

Perhaps the "Urban English" is more sophisticated and more intelligent than "proper" English. Perhaps the reason is the ability to say more with less, or the ability to make a statement without being harassed not at what was said, but how it was said. Am I right OP? OP was trying make a statement and most replies focused on how the statement was made, and not the statement itself. Perhaps "proper" English is slowing us down.

The fact you are writing to me in clear English I can understand kind of invalidates the point your trying to make.

In your logic however are you saying it should be acceptable to just make words up as you go along?

To put it another way. Should I employ someone who handles legal documents and procures hazardous chemicals who would say the the above like this?


Yo bruv yo spek wite dude to #ing well homie mak yo cred bad homie.
Yo say it ok bruv to talk as yo want bro?

Say again bro do I get nerd jobs like it is bro?

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

You ironically missed the point I was making in that very post. Incredible, considering how short it was. Let me slow it down for you. People will speak as it suits their needs. You may think it's dumbing down but they, on the other hand, wasted far fewer hours of their life learning all the rules of English just so that in the end, they can have the exact same conversation as you.

originally posted by: mikemars261
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

You ironically missed the point I was making in that very post. Incredible, considering how short it was. Let me slow it down for you. People will speak as it suits their needs. You may think it's dumbing down but they, on the other hand, wasted far fewer hours of their life learning all the rules of English just so that in the end, they can have the exact same conversation as you.

Except no, they don't. They have far more limited conversations and are less able to express themselves. I have to dumb down my English at work because people are so clueless they can't understand simple concepts because they don't know the words that describe them. So rather than use 1 word, I have to use a paragraph to try to explain the concept.

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

I received a resume last year and, under experience, the person listed, this is verbatim, 'Helping day customers wit day bags.'

This person, sadly, will never have meaningful employment.

O god. That has minimum wage for life written all over it!

It all depends.

Firstly, language changes constantly. So, what you hear and are offended by today may be the accepted languaget of tomorrow. Listen to old recordings and you'll hear an English that hardly ever is spoken anymore. And the changes in English are sped up because it is becoming (some might say: is) an international language, and all types of cultures use it and add their persional flavour / sound / words to it.

Secondly, you sound like an older person (well above 40). Such older people tend to frown upon youth and their behaviour, that's natural and has always been so. So, if you see a guy with a muslim-like beard and tattoos all over - you tend to start with a negative bias, as he looks different from what you have been trained to accept as "a decent look". One day HE will be the manager and he will frown upon that kid that does not even have a decent beard, let alone a proper tattoo or two.

Thirdly: linguistical skills are totally unimportant for certain (sometime highly payed) jobs, for example the garbage guys in New York, piano players, rock stars, truck drivers, factory workers, some types of security guard, cowboys etc. etc. - actually MOST jobs don't require proper linguistical skills, though most jobs DO require a person to be able to read, build simple sentences and write in a semantically understandable way. Syntax is - I'm sorry - a thing for snobs.

(I am such a snob, I'm afraid, but that's MY problem).

Speaking slang and looking part of the hood is actually a Good Thing for some types of shopkeepers, folks that work as social workers, cab drivers, street cleaners, people that work in those neighbourhoods and need to "chime in" with the folks there. Because they speak the lingo - oh, God, I'm now doing it myself - they are better understood and have a positive influence. Even police officers might benefit from it (though I guess they still have to speak old fashioned "Inglish" to satisfy us old folks).

You better take a greycation, as the art is to be a gangsta - not a wanksta - in your nation - chill and holla!

I agree with the op, communication in general between the youth and others has dropped to such a low level its barely English in any format, that and the swag pants mentality simply make most people unemployable out of the box. Sadly I also find the 'youth' said as 'yoof' generally are not wanting of employment, they would rather 'doss' and do nothing while collecting the dole with of course a bit of weed selling making up the extra cash.

To be honest I suspect many turn up with swag pants while saying 'bruv' etc are simply intending to make sure they don't get offered the job but are being seen to be co-operating with the dole office.

But then again I'm no fan of the youth of today, I find them rude, disrespectful and uneducated in general and I'm talking about all colours and creeds but the prime leaders in this field tend to be the black youth, everything is attitude, in your face and talkers of the most non English.

Shame, go back to my era which is 70-80's and most kids wanted education, there was much less of the attitude and parents were MUCH stricter, now its the lose kids of the 90s onwards who are parenting these kids and they were just as bad so the trend simply gets worse.

Devolution....A real shame..

Btw an epic award for most rude, uneducated ad utterly disrespectful must go to Black girls, most are loud and proud and will go into attack mode with zero though about it, I was on a bus last week, a group of black school children got on the bus and started to be very loud and have a go at some passengers so the bus driver told them to get off, after 5 mins of verbal abuse from them they got off, keyed the bus and two of them started letting down the tyres. The bus driver jumped out and was instantly threatened with a knife.

Sadly its not by a long way the first time I've seen this type of behaviour from a group or even a single black girl but normally its a group, I myself was threatened with a knife by one for simply telling her to be more careful because she stopped dead in her tracks to answer her phone, I almost bumped in to her and a knife gets shoved at me.

Real class.

originally posted by: ForteanOrg
Secondly, you sound like an older person (well above 40). Such older people tend to frown upon youth and their behaviour, that's natural and has always been so. So, if you see a guy with a muslim-like beard and tattoos all over - you tend to start with a negative bias, as he looks different from what you have been trained to accept as "a decent look". One day HE will be the manager and he will frown upon that kid that does not even have a decent beard, let alone a proper tattoo or two.

I have been saying this since I was 16. Plenty of younger people frown upon this broken English.

originally posted by: mikemars261
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

You ironically missed the point I was making in that very post. Incredible, considering how short it was. Let me slow it down for you. People will speak as it suits their needs. You may think it's dumbing down but they, on the other hand, wasted far fewer hours of their life learning all the rules of English just so that in the end, they can have the exact same conversation as you.

Yes, but that conversation only makes sense within their own limited social group. The OP talked about social integration - the adoption (or should that be affectation) of "urban" talk is doing nothing to help those who practise it, other than to enhance their status within that limited setting. Those who use "urban" talk as an anti-culture device to mark themselves as being outside mainstream society can't really complain when mainstream society, in turn, decides not to play ball with them.

originally posted by: ForteanOrg
Speaking slang and looking part of the hood is actually a Good Thing for some types of shopkeepers, folks that work as social workers, cab drivers, street cleaners, people that work in those neighbourhoods and need to "chime in" with the folks there. Because they speak the lingo

It may be required, it's not a good thing. Dumbing yourself down rather than lifting others up is never the goal.

Before I was disabled I was a police officer. I had just promoted and was starting to train rookies. I had one rookie (who happened to have a darker complexion) typing up a report and spelled 'dog'......DAWG. Wow.

Also, one day my partner and I were driving through the housing projects and saw a kid (black) in a wife beater and pants almost to his knees. He actually had a belt on, yet the pants were still mid-thigh. So I stopped him to ask him about this fashion statement- not in a mean, shake down way... just to talk to the kid. Turns out he was heading out to apply for work. Yikes! My partner and I had to be the ones to tell him, "Go back home, pull your pants up to the waist where they belong. Throw a nice polo shirt or button down shirt over the wife beater." We even asked this kid if he knew where sagging started (ie in prison it's a signal to mean you are a bitch and you are available)...AND HE KNEW! He knew that and was doing it anyways. He assured us "Yeah, but it's different out here in the frees." Frees meaning free world. So, this poor kid- not even 18- is so ingrained with ghetto/prison culture that it took 2 random cops to coach him on how to dress/behave in the 'frees'.

Clearly this phenomenon is Nurture as opposed to Nature, which means it's completely avoidable. These kids either don't know better, or sadder still, go out of their way to embrace this sub-culture.

To those calling me a racist saying I should employ people with such communication skills.

I work buying and selling chemicals. (I miss microbiology but self employment pays better).

Take methlyamine. A common chemical used in many processes. It was featured in breaking bad as one of walter whites building blocks, though it had a myriad of legal uses of which which I plan to market too.

I can imagine someone speaking VEB or ebonics to the supplier.

Supplier: hello world chemicals what can we do.

My employee : you bruv me need some of that breaking bad stuff homie you know what I am saying bruv?

Supplier: *hangs up*

2 days latter police kick down warehouse door for fear of drug lab......


Worse is most tge suppliers are from india or china so they have trouble with english at the best of times. Clear precise english is vital as it could mean the diffrence of getting a ton of the wrong stuff in. IE 1 ton of potassium nitrate that is pretty easy to handle or 1 ton of ammonium nitrate that without the right forms will land me in deep pooh with the police.

This is the top college debate team ....

It's 1 hour and 6 minutes in.