Black/Urban English? Is the inability to speak correctly contributeing to unemployment?

originally posted by: Kester
a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

". . . lack of education opportunities . . ."
Tell that to a teacher if you want to see someone rip their hair out and run off screaming.

I was a professional educator working for years with low income communities... And I did psychology and education research. And, i have three degrees related to poverty. What I am saying is extremely well researched.. You can either believe it or continue on with whatever pet hypotheses you have that are based on your own lack of knowledge of the subject.

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14

originally posted by: Kester
a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

". . . lack of education opportunities . . ."
Tell that to a teacher if you want to see someone rip their hair out and run off screaming.

I was a professional educator working for years with low income communities... And I did psychology and education research. And, i have three degrees related to poverty. What I am saying is extremely well researched.. You can either believe it or continue on with whatever pet hypotheses you have that are based on your own lack of knowledge of the subject.

This is the UK, Kester was correct, there are no lack of education opportunities in Britain due to poverty.

Schools are free and provide free meals to kids who have parents on benefits, further education colleges are free and provide free or subsidised bus travel, universities tuition/living expenses cost of course, but the government pays it up front and you only have to pay it back as deductions from wages similar to income tax.

If someone earns less than £17,000 a year then there is no deduction for the student loan, it is frozen.
Someone earning £21,000 a year pays back £27 per month, and it works on a sliding scale up to £30,000 salary each year who pay £94 per month deducted at source by the employer.

Maybe in your native New York there is a lack of educational opportunities, but there is not in the UK, just crappy parents breeding and raising crappy future parents.

I know I have already posted it elsewhere but I think this video shows that its not just a black issue either.



I barely can call that lads sounds communication.

This isn't just a problem in English speaking countries either. It seems to be cool to. Speak street or gansta in many different languages.

That doesn't account for the legion of research ACROSS the world about how one of the impacts of poverty and all of its variables is reduced education achievement, due to everything from lower nutrition to broken homes to less educated parents to less books in the home, crime, etc ad infinitum. There are organizations in the UK that work specifically on this problem, as they do here in the States.

Even on the language issue that the op is speaking to, children from low income backgrounds inherit less social capital, including the so-called "language of the managers," i.e. professional language. This too, is well studied.

Again, this is well proven across the world, including in the UK.

I worked in education across four countries. Moreover, working in international development I had to study these things across countries, not just the US.

I don't have the time to post a ton of links. But maybe google something like "poverty and lowered education access and achievement."

Or "poverty and reduced social capital" in regards to the language question.

a reply to: crazyewok

I wonder how much of this is down to his parents, grandparents, great grandparents working with toxins in industry.

a reply to: staple

I was hoping he'd give a clear answer.

He says if we just listen we'll understand. I'm not so sure.

To suggest if you know both implies they are different languages. To suggest just listening is enough implies they aren't different.

I think his answer is a little confused.

originally posted by: Nexttimemaybe
This isn't just a problem in English speaking countries either. It seems to be cool to. Speak street or gansta in many different languages.

Orya ouya oda ikelay Iya idday enwhay Iya asway aya ildchay. Ouya eakedspay Igpay Atinlay.

originally posted by: Kester
a reply to: staple

I was hoping he'd give a clear answer.

He says if we just listen we'll understand. I'm not so sure.

To suggest if you know both implies they are different languages. To suggest just listening is enough implies they aren't different.

I think his answer is a little confused.

Because you are correct. They are not different languages. They are they same language peppered with local vernacular, blended words, borrowed words from a merged culture and sometimes archaic words or words with a different spelling variation.

Like I said before, most of the time you can understand it fairly easily, once you accept it and get used to the sound of it. It can be really fun trying to speak like a native. It makes the person feel at ease, and you will be surprised how they will correct you, like you are the one speaking strangely, but it makes for a bit of camaraderie, while communicating with someone you may not have actually really talked with before.

Growing up in a military family meant we packed up and relocated about every two years. The easiest way to get negative attention or bullied, was to look or sound different. My family called me a little chameleon, because I could pick up a new accent and speak like the locals in two shakes of a cat's tale. I still have a bad habit of slipping into the same accent and cadence of the person I am speaking with. Sometimes they think I am mocking them, but to be honest, most don't even notice, and they seem to become more relaxed and open. My friends jokingly remind me by saying, "you are doing it again, sounding like someone just took over your mouth".

People don't usually speak differently to make you feel uncomfortable or because they don't want you to understand them. It is usually just the opposite. They speak the way they do to fit in, they don't want to be the odd man out or a target in jest or in something more unpleasant, such as looking like an outsider.

Language is for communication. We have forgotten that it takes to people to communicate, and it isn't all about what you have to say. " Listening to what others think and what they have to contribute can be very advantageous for all concerned.

a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

I'm sorry but inability to communicate is the biggest cause of all the worlds problems, anyone who creates a new way of speaking to further our communicative divide is a part of the problem in my opinion. We should be moving towards not further from a universal language.

originally posted by: Puppylove
a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

I'm sorry but inability to communicate is the biggest cause of all the worlds problems, anyone who creates a new way of speaking to further our communicative divide is a part of the problem in my opinion. We should be moving towards not further from a universal language.

What a boring world where everyone sounds the same.

originally posted by: Puppylove
a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

I'm sorry but inability to communicate is the biggest cause of all the worlds problems, anyone who creates a new way of speaking to further our communicative divide is a part of the problem in my opinion. We should be moving towards not further from a universal language.

It appears you misunderstood what I said.

Communication does not require words. People in their effort to share their experiences, often use words like a condiment, in an attempt express and share as much of that experience as possible, and in an attempt to further understanding.

People don't make up words to confuse or divide. If they dress their conversation in words with colors or spices, it is so they can be better understood and to be more inclusive.

If you are uncomfortable with words you don't understand, most people will be more than happy to explain them to you, because they want you to understand them. This is not going to work, however, if you consider the person uneducated and beneath you, and in most cases the only person that loses is you.

I have had long conversations with people that didn't speak one word of English, and I didn't speak one word of their language. Until I could get an interpreter, I played the word game with them. It made them more comfortable, it was fun and it made the conversation go by much easier with the interpreter present, and we both learned something.

Communication does not always take place with just words. We have to be open to what others have to say, even if the words are foreign to us. It is not the words that divide, it takes a person to do that. It all comes down to our ability and our willingness to communicate.

IMHO

a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

These people are purposely creating a way to talk that's different than the country they live in and way everyone there already speak.

originally posted by: Puppylove
a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

These people are purposely creating a way to talk that's different than the country they live in and way everyone there already speak.

I see.

If that is what you believe, I understand your frustration and anger.

I just have not personally experienced the people you are referencing, so I can say no more on this matter.