Black/Urban English? Is the inability to speak correctly contributeing to unemployment?

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: vettex2
Ignorance runs rampant. Learning to speak is essential !!

Yes!

And it involves so much more then just speaking/conversation.

Letter writing, résumés, forms, any kind of communication.

Lord...the mistakes I have seen on resumes!

And my wife has had to hire grade-school teachers before ...and yes...you would not believe the number of TEACHERS that put together a resume rife with spelling errors!!

Ugh!

With spell check and everything done for you electronically today - - - there is no excuse.

It's hard for a computer to check resumes because of the unusual format and unusual language...names of SW packages and industry specific things, certifications etc. Many people putting together resumes turn-off spelling and grammar checks because the computer calls foul on so much. It's one of the few documents where people have to actually read and check it themselves.

Plus...spell check doesn't catch certain things...one of my favorites was a cover letter that ended with "Hope to speak with you shorty!"...thank goodness I am a tall man or I would have taken offense.

I was talking to a family member who is a teacher about this. She referred to it as the death of the adverb. That was a profoundly accurate description. She teaches in high school, where social trends seem to hit hardest.

The sentence, "We are going now" no longer exists. It has been cropped to, "We go." Though not proper, at least those are real words.

Living near Chicago I hear things like am-BOO-lance and PO-lice every day. But my favorite has always been a woman who appeared on the Oprah show. She was asked a question and her response, as accurately as I can reproduce it was, "Whyou gottsa aksfodat? Dats nonoyo biznits."

At that moment I resigned myself to the fact that there are people that I will forever struggle with understanding.

a reply to: crazyewok

Boris Johnson understands a great deal more than he let's on. He is also a filthy Tory swine who I would gladly push through a wood chipping machine, just to amuse myself. However, he has got fantastic diction.

Bortis though? That's a new one on me !

The thing is, that the more we forget, the less we can learn from. Remembering to speak correctly, is a sign of respect to our ancestors, a nod to their sacrifices on our behalf, in times gone by. It remembers those who were stuck in the poor house, the debtors prisons. It honours those who fought for union rights, for the rights of working people to live in decent accommodation, and have access to medical care, and education. It shows that we do not merely take from a system because of some notion of entitlement, but that we appreciate the work done by those who came before us, to provide for our right to know how to read, write, and speak.

Without those efforts, we might be forced to work weaving looms without proper health and safety or training facilities, to do dangerous levels of forced labour, without any regard for the physical limitations of our bodies, or simply locked up and abused to punish us for being poor. I speak correctly because I enjoy it, but also because my ideology, politically speaking, demands it of me, demands that I make the level best of what has been provided by my ancestors.

I do not feel ashamed that I expect the same from my fellow countrymen.

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: crazyewok
I run a small buisness in the south London area. And I have noticed the extreme lack of communication skills among the black community.

I am binning around 8 out of 10 black applicants applications after speaking to them, not due to them being black, but there inability to string a coherent sentence together. In fact I have noticed this "urban" talk in some white candidates too, though not to the same extent, and resulting in equal binned applications.

Coming from the USA...What does "Binning" mean?

I can perhaps assist, it means to place into a waste bin. I guess in the USA you may have said 'I am trashing'

To place them in the "Circular File" is what I hear most often.

So, if you said 'I circular filed it' I wouldn't know what you are talking about either, but fairly sure the word 'bin' did make it across the Atlantic.

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: vettex2
Ignorance runs rampant. Learning to speak is essential !!

Yes!

And it involves so much more then just speaking/conversation.

Letter writing, résumés, forms, any kind of communication.

Lord...the mistakes I have seen on resumes!

And my wife has had to hire grade-school teachers before ...and yes...you would not believe the number of TEACHERS that put together a resume rife with spelling errors!!

Ugh!

With spell check and everything done for you electronically today - - - there is no excuse.

It's hard for a computer to check resumes because of the unusual format and unusual language...names of SW packages and industry specific things, certifications etc. Many people putting together resumes turn-off spelling and grammar checks because the computer calls foul on so much. It's one of the few documents where people have to actually read and check it themselves.

Plus...spell check doesn't catch certain things...one of my favorites was a cover letter that ended with "Hope to speak with you shorty!"...thank goodness I am a tall man or I would have taken offense.

Oh, well I type my stuff out on Word first, go over it, make corrections etc - - - before I even attempt to put it in a form.

It's not because people talk in slang, it's because you talk all faggy, and stuff.

originally posted by: GenerationGap
It's not because people talk in slang, it's because you talk all faggy, and stuff.

I laughed when I saw this. Idiocracy is hilarious until I start thinking we are most likely heading down this path!

And another gem: (From Scary Movie 4) "Get me Homerland Squiddy!" says the president. "You mean Homeland Security, sir?"

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: crazyewok
I run a small buisness in the south London area. And I have noticed the extreme lack of communication skills among the black community.

I am binning around 8 out of 10 black applicants applications after speaking to them, not due to them being black, but there inability to string a coherent sentence together. In fact I have noticed this "urban" talk in some white candidates too, though not to the same extent, and resulting in equal binned applications.

Coming from the USA...What does "Binning" mean?

I can perhaps assist, it means to place into a waste bin. I guess in the USA you may have said 'I am trashing'

To place them in the "Circular File" is what I hear most often.

So, if you said 'I circular filed it' I wouldn't know what you are talking about either, but fairly sure the word 'bin' did make it across the Atlantic.

Of course I know "Bin" as in "trash bin"...I know it as a noun: Person, place or thing...but have never heard it used as verb..."Binning"?

To me it sounds as strange as "desking" ...

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: crazyewok
I run a small buisness in the south London area. And I have noticed the extreme lack of communication skills among the black community.

I am binning around 8 out of 10 black applicants applications after speaking to them, not due to them being black, but there inability to string a coherent sentence together. In fact I have noticed this "urban" talk in some white candidates too, though not to the same extent, and resulting in equal binned applications.

Coming from the USA...What does "Binning" mean?

I can perhaps assist, it means to place into a waste bin. I guess in the USA you may have said 'I am trashing'

To place them in the "Circular File" is what I hear most often.

So, if you said 'I circular filed it' I wouldn't know what you are talking about either, but fairly sure the word 'bin' did make it across the Atlantic.

Of course I know "Bin" as in "trash bin"...I know it as a noun: Person, place or thing...but have never heard it used as verb..."Binning"?

To me it sounds as strange as "desking" ...

How strange.

Its something I hear and use all the time in south east England.

But then I find the American use of the word bum odd as here it means your arse not a homeless person or as we call them tramps.

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: crazyewok
I run a small buisness in the south London area. And I have noticed the extreme lack of communication skills among the black community.

I am binning around 8 out of 10 black applicants applications after speaking to them, not due to them being black, but there inability to string a coherent sentence together. In fact I have noticed this "urban" talk in some white candidates too, though not to the same extent, and resulting in equal binned applications.

Coming from the USA...What does "Binning" mean?

I can perhaps assist, it means to place into a waste bin. I guess in the USA you may have said 'I am trashing'

To place them in the "Circular File" is what I hear most often.

So, if you said 'I circular filed it' I wouldn't know what you are talking about either, but fairly sure the word 'bin' did make it across the Atlantic.

My first time in Ireland I had an American buddy at a bar telling a story about how his toddler daughter did something she wasn't supposed to and he gave her a "slap on the fanny"...It took an explanation to figure out why everyone looked so shocked.

Just sayin...the English language is different across the pond.

originally posted by: crazyewok
not a homeless person or as we call them tramps.

No we don't, we call them homeless too.
Maybe those who are a little meaner and not quite up on the proper words to use for said group say tramps but those with tact and concern for their fellow human beings say homeless.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

I received a resume last year and, under experience, the person listed, this is verbatim, 'Helping day customers wit day bags.'

This person, sadly, will never have meaningful employment.

Good grief, I had to read that several times to try and make sense of it, as I was constantly wondering what a 'day customer' was, like as in day shift or night shift, until I realised 'day' = 'the' lol. You would think that schools would be helping kids that struggle with English to learn how to fill out forms and do CVs, a bit like they are doing with maths now where they are doing 'maths for life' rather than scientific maths for kids that are not needing scientific maths, so e.g. teaching how to work out VAT and pay packets and overtime etc.

I too have seen a serious decline in proper English with teens. Partly I think it is all this Americanism and cool to be 'gang like' and 'sound like the hood' and all that, also modern devices which use texting and gamer shortcuts and finally it could also be that kids just don't read so many books with proper English so they are not being exposed to a lot of it. Quite sad really. Reminds me a lot of the book (and film) A Clockwork Orange and in a way 1984 where language had distorted or reduced making it almost like a totally new language. Double Plus Good anyone??

a reply to: grainofsand
Actually you will find the 'dinnae ken' is more a central belt expression from the Stirling / Falkirk area, maybe even going as east as Fife (but not totally sure of that). In Glasgow it might be said 'didnae know'. A lot of Scots do say the word 'how' instead of 'why'. So someone might be doing something that they are struggling with and say 'I just cannae get this' and the other person may ask 'how no?' rather than 'why not?'

A lot of slang in Scotland is in fact Auld Scots mixed in with normal English and is used by all levels of the community. One of my most used ones is 'stooshie' others are baffies, wallies, scunnered, haver, tatties, wee ...... more here if you are interested Scots Tongue

I say, let's all enrich our languge and share the words between us making a more extensive language with which to express ourselves rather than reduce the content of our dictionaries. We are blessed with so many words to describe the same thing, but with very sublte differences in meaning which could term the 'shade' of the meaning, if that makes sense.

Although for formal communication we woud always use proper 'Queens English' as it seems to be called.

originally posted by: ladyvalkyrie
a reply to: ForteanOrgI had the ability to switch the slang off. If you want slang as a second language, great. But when it's the only thing you know, that is a problem.

The assumption that slang is the "wrong" language and that the slang that is taught at schools is the "right" language holds only true when you have to take an English exam. Panta rhei; the slang of today is the language of tomorrow.
The same holds true for behaviour - what is polite today may be ridiculous tomorrow.

I do agree that being multi-cultural and multi-lingual is a Good Thing. But if you are not really good at that - because you might not have had the luck to be born with the right brain, parents or within the right culture, country, timeframe etc. - stick with the culture and language you know. And that's what most in the 'hoods do.

a reply to: CthulhuMythos

Agreed with most of your post, just my thoughts were inspired solely about folk living in England. Scots Tongue and 'Wenglish' as we call the duality with the two languages is not English as in England.

Both the Welsh and English language, with local dialect/accent come out of my mouth when I'm in Wales, but when I'm back in England I drop the Welsh (and dialect) if it could cause a barrier to communication and understanding.

Oh, and I don't call it the Queens English, I call it business/formal English as accepted in the UK.

a reply to: CthulhuMythos

I say, let's all enrich our languge and share the words between us making a more extensive language with which to express ourselves rather than reduce the content of our dictionaries. We are blessed with so many words to describe the same thing, but with very sublte differences in meaning which could term the 'shade' of the meaning, if that makes sense.

It already exists. I spoke of it in my post. It is caledl patois. It can be fun, very expressive, and it can be addicting.

Patois is usually the main language decorated with the provincial flavorings of the residents in a local area. It may indeed sound strange to the untrained ear, but once you catch the rhythm of it, it is pretty easy to pick up on, if you know the main language, and it can become addicting.

a reply to: grainofsand

I seem to remember it referred to as 'Queens English'.. though that was some time ago I must admit. Love the title Wenglish, lol. I agree that we should strive to be able to communicate with others and changing how we say things can help, but also think we should educate so that the other person can understand when we do say something that is not the norm in their area. That way they have learned a new way to say something too

I remember having some American friends online and saying the word 'chuffed' and then having to explain it. They were chuffed in the end to have learned it and said they would use it all the time now lol

originally posted by: blupblup

originally posted by: crazyewok
not a homeless person or as we call them tramps.

No we don't, we call them homeless too.
Maybe those who are a little meaner and not quite up on the proper words to use for said group say tramps but those with tact and concern for their fellow human beings say homeless.

There are homeless and there are bums. The two do not have to be the same thing IME. Just sayin'. In other words, you can often have a homeless bum, a homeless person, or just a bum and be speaking about three different persons.

Also, we refer to my son's bum all the time, but then it's a part of his anatomy, not who or what he is.

originally posted by: CthulhuMythos
a reply to: grainofsand
I agree that we should strive to be able to communicate with others and changing how we say things can help, but also think we should educate so that the other person can understand when we do say something that is not the norm in their area. That way they have learned a new way to say something too

I agree, my average linguistic day in England varies from formal English to rough swearing like a chav, to Welsh language phrases, and even some Polish and Czech lines.

It all depends on the appropriateness for the situation.

My English mates and workmates have learned many Welsh language words which come out of my mouth over the years, but in a formal situation, nope, I speak business English.
It is the language of England after all, but if one can only speak in the manner that folk on their rented state housing estate speak then they are disadvantaged from the start.
Its sad.

a reply to: grainofsand

I hope it stays that way for you. Here in America there are places were you will not be able to find employment if you can't speak a second language.

Some employees are even required to wear badges that identify the second or third language they speak, so the clients/customers/patients, know who they can speak with that will understand them in their native tongue.

I am presently in South Florida, and while it used to be mainly Spanish, in some places, that was the primary language spoken, other cultures are gaining headway in getting their demands met for employees to speak their native tongue as well.


Multi-lingualism is the requirement of tomorrow. If you want your children to have a chance at a decent job in the future, start them as early as possible in learning a second, or third language. Mandarin is a good start.