Bernie Sanders. Worse than Isis?

originally posted by: nwtrucker
a reply to: Skadi_the_Evil_Elf

Actually, I don't disagree with that very much, at all. Except I consider the demise of the Constitution the end of the U.S. of A..

When I see a candidate actually disparaging that Constitution in a political speech while running for the Office of the President of the United States of America whose job is to preserve and protect that document and swears to do so in his oath of office and there is no WTF?? from media or Americans??

Good intentions Vs. sociopaths ? What's the difference if both end up in the same place? NONE.

None seem to see that. I am stunned.

This country is already finished and doesn't even know it.

If you really want to get down to it, the constitution has been toast long before anyone even heard of Bernie Sanders. Bernie Sanders can't destroy what has already been publicly defiled by the last 5 administrations and the Congresses that collaborated with them. So again, Bernie Sanders cannot be compared to ISIS even on the grounds of the belief that he will destroy America like ISIS. America, the Land of the Free, Home of the Brave, a nation not built on ethnic or religious ties, but on reason, humanity, and justice; That country ceased to exist about 50-60 years ago. The worst thing Bernie Sanders would be capable of doing is dumping another bucket of water on an already half-sunk Titanic.

I half agree/disagree their roads lead the same place. Both roads lead to different destinations I consider wholly undesirable, although one far less brutal and inhuman than the other. Sanders believes strongly in the Nordic socialist model. On a different side of the coin, I actually agree with him. Democratic Socialism is actually a very solid, functional, and very efficient form of government that brings the most benefit to all while still remaining innovative and productive. IN SCANDINAVIA. That is what Mr. Sanders and so many other deluded forget. The Scandinavian countries have a completely different cultural, historic, ethnic, and social makeup than the U.S. An entirely different framework. One that for centuries, was surprisingly free, egalitarian and socially cooperative when compared to it's neighbors at the time. One that, despite the fierce and brutal reputations of the Vikings, actually had a very civil legal and social system at home that treated nobles and commoners in a relatively even fashion, considering the times and such. And of course, let us not forget, societies that are also ethnically homogeneous. They already had the most important foundations, like social cooperation and trust, coupled with small, culturally homogeneous populations, that Democratic Socialism needs to realistically function.

America = NOT SCANDINAVIA. We have a very different history, countless ethnic, social, and religious identities, 12 times the population spread out over a much larger landmass, and a completely different culture. It is the lesson we learned from the collapse of the Soviet Union: Marxism does not work well beyond a certain threshold of size, and thus, becomes dysfunctional and even brutal in larger, more religious/ethnic/cultural superstates. We do not live in a one size fits all world. Something that Mr. Sanders and ISIS can't seem to accept. That is about all they really have in common.

Unlike the right-wingers, I do not believe socialism or communism are fundamentally evil. I believe that they are the right systems for some countries and societies, systems where the people are happy and treated fairly. Anymore than I believe capitalism or democracy are fundamentally evil, and work well for some countries and societies. What is paramount is that the people of those countries must be willing and able to make a system work that is just and humane. For America, however, that system is not socialism. At least not at the federal level, and for many states, not at the state level. (Mr. Sanders state of Vermont, however, might do well with a socialist state level government, given that Vermont is tiny, depending on how the locals feel.) Our current system, however, isn't working at all, and seriously needs to change at all levels. We simply can't continue on like this.

The real comparison for me is more the right wing and ISIS/The Taliban. Their dogma and attitudes have become so similar it's sometimes difficult to tell the two apart. Except one is screaming "Allah" over the sounds of bullets and bombs, the other is screaming "Jesus" over the sounds bullets and nukes.


Now if anyone currently running for prez on the right wants to come join the rest of us back in the real world and start talking about the REAL problems this country faces and providing potential solutions, instead of blaming everything on the Mexicans/immigrants/blacks/hippies/liberals/gays/potheads/feminists/atheists/Muslims/Insert Hated Group Here, that would be great.

Oh, and if the Right Wing wishes me to take them seriously as the defenders against Marxist Tyranny, then maybe they should try pulling their heads out of their rectums and look around them to see that the real Marxist threat is not some Senator from Vermont, but the growing chasm of wealth between the 1% and 99%. (I am using the 1% and 99% not because I am a OWS supporter, but that it more accurately reflects the current economic limbo more accurately. more than rich vs poor) Because in every successful Marxist revolution in history, those were the very conditions that created a fertile ground for revolt. When the 1% ends up hoarding 99.9% of the wealth and resources of a nation, and the 99% are hungry, homeless, and hopeless after merciless exploitation by their "betters" (as was the case in Imperial Russia, Imperial China, Old Cuba, ect), that's when the Marxists won because they had the support of those desperate 99% with nothing left to lose. And that is what is happening in this country now. We aren't quite there yet, but if current trends continue, in about another 10 to 15 years we'll be partying like it's 1917 Moscow. All thanks to the crap being pushed by the Right.

a reply to: Reallyfolks

well said..

a reply to: Reallyfolks

Well, you're wrong.

I can see the point being made, a bit of a stretch to me , more for sensentional and shock value than anything. It's politics though. We have our Nazis, racists, Mao and pol clones, Marxist, communist manifesto lovers, and so on. Just another label.

Except, you don't understand what is really going on right now.

It is what it is.

No. It was what it was.

And none of that has anything to do with what is going on right now. If you're not going to vote for either of them, why are you even on here?

Ohh yayy a political troll thread brought to you from the neocons !

Having said that im a Obama loving muslim extremist progressive liberal socialist black thug member of ISIS that needs to go live in another country.


Allahu Snackbar !

a reply to: Skadi_the_Evil_Elf

I agree to an extent. Yet, this is the first candidate running for the Presidency that actual articulates/implies it in a political speech.

It is a new level.

The lack of awareness of that fact basically puts me in a near hopeless feeling for the future. Perhaps it's old age, a full experience living in an environment that was much more full of promise and security that this one.

Still, I go down swinging...LOL. I will point it out and settle for that small sense of accomplishment.

a reply to: amazing

Sanders rather than Bush or Clinton?? Damn.....No, none of the above. Mere semantics...

a reply to: Skadi_the_Evil_Elf

Preach it girl!! Hell, I'd vote for you for POTUS right now after that little speech. Maybe you should run???

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

It is a stretch and it isn't. Look at all the other Great Societies that were founded in the ideas of Marx and went really, really wrong deciding that removing inconvenient portions of their population would be part of their five year solutions.

But it IS a stretch, its not even a comparison

ISIS is actively murdering, beheading, blowing up, cutting off heads, and selling women and children into Sex slavery....

Im not a Bernie fan but that comparison isnt fair....

Bernie is doing none of that....

The Idea of socialism going bad and costing lives yes is a scary one........and trust me im NO fan of adopting an all socialist policy

But to compare this guy with a group actively murdering innocence is dishonest.......

^^^ ditto

You seem to be making to much sense here.


As someone on the "right" in the UK it always irritates me when our more loony elements open there mouths to make BS statments like the op that not only distract from REAL issues but make all of us look like fruit loops.

Sorry for the late reply

I love my conservative brothers and share a lot of their ideas

But like you, it irritates me too.......because the issue hasnt become "what common ground despite our differences, can we stand on" its become "What can i smear you with the hardest to discredit any and everything you have to say"

And thats not the way it should be

Unity DESPITE , and indeed IN SPITE of differences, is what makes a nation..........

Division for the sake of placating our own anger, will destroy it

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: Reallyfolks

Well, you're wrong.

I can see the point being made, a bit of a stretch to me , more for sensentional and shock value than anything. It's politics though. We have our Nazis, racists, Mao and pol clones, Marxist, communist manifesto lovers, and so on. Just another label.

Except, you don't understand what is really going on right now.

It is what it is.

No. It was what it was.

And none of that has anything to do with what is going on right now. If you're not going to vote for either of them, why are you even on here?

Because I can be , even if you don't like it or disagree with what I say.

originally posted by: nwtrucker
a reply to: Skadi_the_Evil_Elf

I agree to an extent. Yet, this is the first candidate running for the Presidency that actual articulates/implies it in a political speech.

It is a new level.

The lack of awareness of that fact basically puts me in a near hopeless feeling for the future. Perhaps it's old age, a full experience living in an environment that was much more full of promise and security that this one.

Still, I go down swinging...LOL. I will point it out and settle for that small sense of accomplishment.

It is not lost on me that an open socialist is currently successfully campaigning for president and is actually leading in many polls. That should be a wake up call right there on just how seriously F-ed up the situation is, and how far gone the conservatives in this country are. When a socialist president sits in the White House, it will be 75% because of the Republicans/Conservative idiocy, and not because of some sinister progressive/socialist/atheist plot.

I totally blame conservatives over the last 15 years for pushing more and more people into the left. If they keep this level of crazy/stupid/irrelevant up, the country is going to get bluer and bluer.

a reply to: Skadi_the_Evil_Elf

Which boggles me, because the last 8 yrs of progressive policies have NOT made the country a better place........

Have you SEEN whats going on?

The problems with the conservatives from Bush on, is that they werent conservative.........

We can disagree on semantics etc.......

If Bernie gets the office its not because Conservatives or bad or anything else.......its because people have become increasingly socialist.......

Every presidential term we move further and further that direction.........

We havent had a truly conservative president since ive been alive

a reply to: introvert

Just...no words... for your post.... I could pick it apart, but not sure it's worth the effort.

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask
a reply to: Skadi_the_Evil_Elf

Which boggles me, because the last 8 yrs of progressive policies have NOT made the country a better place........

Have you SEEN whats going on?

The problems with the conservatives from Bush on, is that they werent conservative.........

We can disagree on semantics etc.......

If Bernie gets the office its not because Conservatives or bad or anything else.......its because people have become increasingly socialist.......

Every presidential term we move further and further that direction.........



We havent had a truly conservative president since ive been alive

They see what's going on and think it's all because of the evil Republicans and horrible greedy capitalists and not enough socialism. They will not take responsibility for supporting failed policies that are all Democratic. That's the plain truth.

a reply to: Skadi_the_Evil_Elf

it will be 75% because of the Republicans/Conservative idiocy, and not because of some sinister progressive/socialist/atheist plot.

Really? Please tell me exactly what GOP and especially conservative policies have caused this mess...please be specific, because Obamacare got passed and is currently being implemented....the GOP haven't changed any of it though they could and should have...they should have tried to repeal it when they had the chance...that's just one thing....how about what the Progressives are doing to the coal industry, how about wasting public money on Solyndra, how about taking over Chrysler, the list goes on and on, how about flying children into the states at our expense and resettling them all over the States, bombing Libya and now Syria and putting more troops in Afghanistan(poppies?)... you tell me which of these policies are GOP....please...
The economy is still faltering after almost 8 years and it has nothing to do with the GOP. In fact the GOP have caved way more than they should and they are trying to avoid govt shutdown. I say let it shut down!!!!

originally posted by: ThirdEyeofHorus

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask
a reply to: Skadi_the_Evil_Elf

Which boggles me, because the last 8 yrs of progressive policies have NOT made the country a better place........

Have you SEEN whats going on?

The problems with the conservatives from Bush on, is that they werent conservative.........

We can disagree on semantics etc.......

If Bernie gets the office its not because Conservatives or bad or anything else.......its because people have become increasingly socialist.......

Every presidential term we move further and further that direction.........



We havent had a truly conservative president since ive been alive

They see what's going on and think it's all because of the evil Republicans and horrible greedy capitalists and not enough socialism. They will not take responsibility for supporting failed policies that are all Democratic. That's the plain truth.

Well to be honest with you Im not a fan of the republicans either, they have NOT represented conservative values what so ever, they have continued to be establishment people, and continued the game back and forth with the democrats, and the exchange in power to keep the GAME up, not to actually change anything, but to keep the charade going.......

There have been plenty of failed republican policies , theres no doubt about that, there is failure on both sides......

I really think that if we had a REAL conservative like Rand Paul or the likes of his dad in office, the liberal left would probably like them, because they actually stand on their priciples and arent going to be full of BS.....

Rand is a strict constitutionalist and though he has his opinions on things, hes the kind of person that wouldnt violate our constitution to enforce his own opinion.........his voting history and what some consider "waffling" proves that.....

he doesnt waffle to the left, he just refuses to violate our constitution......

heres the thing......we will either get a guy like rand paul, a guy like bernie, or a guy like Trump.......

And id rather have Bernie then Trump, trust me I dont agree with Bernie at ALL, but with Bernie I know whats coming, hes a Socialist, I know everything he does is going to be geared towards that, theres no surprises or lies......

I think the same thing goes for someone like Paul, the left dont have much to say about him, because the guy is honest, hes made mistakes yes, but he holds to what he says.......

Id rather have someone I respect in office, and that I know what they are going to do, then a person like Trump, Or Obama

The nation will choose, this election will be a turning point either way

a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

represented conservative values what so ever, they have continued to be establishment people, and continued the game back and forth with the democrats,

With the exception of a few like Trey Gowdy and Ted Cruz who have been vilified by the press and by the establishment and Progressives for filibustering(like the Democrats don't do that).
I'm also tired of the GOP not doing what they should be doing. But like I keep saying the CFR runs the show.

And id rather have Bernie then Trump, trust me I dont agree with Bernie at ALL, but with Bernie I know whats coming, hes a Socialist, I know everything he does is going to be geared towards that, theres no surprises or lies......

Trust me with Bernie it will be four more years of what we already had for nearly 8. Trump....just don't know about him. Could be a Trojan horse...

originally posted by: ThirdEyeofHorus
a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

represented conservative values what so ever, they have continued to be establishment people, and continued the game back and forth with the democrats,

With the exception of a few like Trey Gowdy and Ted Cruz who have been vilified by the press and by the establishment and Progressives for filibustering(like the Democrats don't do that).
I'm also tired of the GOP not doing what they should be doing. But like I keep saying the CFR runs the show.

and im convinced the only reason Gowdy doesnt run is because he feels hes doing the right thing right now, and doesnt want to interfere

Id vote for Gowdy in a heartbeat.........

a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

Yes I would vote for Gowdy too.

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask

originally posted by: ThirdEyeofHorus
a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

represented conservative values what so ever, they have continued to be establishment people, and continued the game back and forth with the democrats,

With the exception of a few like Trey Gowdy and Ted Cruz who have been vilified by the press and by the establishment and Progressives for filibustering(like the Democrats don't do that).
I'm also tired of the GOP not doing what they should be doing. But like I keep saying the CFR runs the show.

and im convinced the only reason Gowdy doesnt run is because he feels hes doing the right thing right now, and doesnt want to interfere

Id vote for Gowdy in a heartbeat.........

He is a politician, as such I am going out on a limb and say it's not about doing the right thing. But he is probably being advised to stay the course and should Clinton go down he could take that single issue and ride it to the republican nomination with not even a close second. Maybe he is trying to do what he thinks is right. I just don't have a high opinion of politicians.

a reply to: Reallyfolks

Oh of course! you can be....and it absotively doesn't make any diff at all what I like or don't like.....!!!!

Still - I mean -

- what is your agenda? Just to troll and insist on 'write-in' votes?