FOX News: Transgender girl drops class after 200 protest for and against her.

a reply to: Domo1
Domo, I think for once we're almost on the same page on something? (not sure though, need to read again!)

originally posted by: IridiumFlareMadness
a reply to: boncho

If kids were taught that they might actually be a wizard if they feel like one, it would be the exact same thing. But wizards don't exist, right?

No because people do not turn in to wizards. On the other hand, people do grow up to be matured female or male humans.

The thing is, if someone woke up one day and suddenly turned into a wizard, with magic and everything, we would have to recognize that, but as of right now, its fantasy and has no bearing on this issue whatsoever.

Comparatively, people do identify as female though born male, or as a male born female. They don't identify as wizards.

Its not something people can just pretend away, or wish it out of existence. Im sure you're familiar with the Bruce Jenner story? He had gender identity issues going back decades, trying to hide it, ignore it, deny, etc

And what was the eventual outcome? Yeah. So its far different than make believe wizards, sorry.

This all dates back to the beginning of our species by the way, there were transgendered people back in biblical times.

Pretty ignorant to say its the same as believing you're a wizard.

a reply to: EKron

This is male privilege, plain and simple.

Can you explain that? This seems like special snowflake privilege.

originally posted by: reldra

originally posted by: Reallyfolks

originally posted by: reldra

originally posted by: Bennyzilla
a reply to: Deaf Alien

I get the feeling rape victims would be equally upset, if not more, about a dude in the women's locker room

I don't think you are a woman. The 2 things are totally different.

No but considering how the average rape victim will act around males after rape.

Maybe right after. It also depends on the person how long it will take to not be generally in fear..of being alone, of walking after dark, of going on a date. However, the vast majority do not remain fearful of men or scared of male genitalia for the rest of their lives. Rape is about power, not sex or parts.

I understand that, you could have on going sexual abuse victims when in their home as well. Point is there are many reasons why someone might feel uncomfortable with the opposite physical make up in the locker room. Body image issues made worse by it, some girls just uncomfortable with the opposite sex in general (late bloomers). Etc. So it wasn't that there are rape victims in there but one of many reasons that the opposite physical makeup in the girls locker room could make them uncomfortable/stressed

originally posted by: EKron

originally posted by: reldra
Come college, she will probably be allowed to use the female facilities. Maybe the other girls should get used to it now.

Seriously? I don't think women would ever get used to showering next to someone that has a penis nor do I think we should ever have to. My opinion is if someone truly identifies with being a woman, the last thing on earth they would do would be to expose their male genitalia to anyone and that they should have more respect for the feelings of those that are female.

This is male privilege, plain and simple.

I was talking more in regard to curtained shower stalls and enclosed bathroom stalls in college. Most dorms have that. No reason why locker rooms can't just like the local workout place.

If at any time showering in the open with other genders could become normal it would be in the military or a job in which you live on an oil rig or something. After a few months the novelty and/or embarrassment would wear off.

This is male privilege, plain and simple.

Bull#. This is not male privilege. This is some one who needs counseling trying to force their own confusion onto others. Now crying out to the PC media for attention. Proper arrangements were made. You people on the board are really becoming annoying.

a reply to: boncho

I would agree with you if you can point me in the direction of anyone ever who was a male and identified as a female, and then woke up one day and was now magically a female.

I would accept the wizard in the wizard situation because that person manifested magical powers. It turns out they really were a wizard all along.

Idk of any man that has wanted to be a woman, who then woke up one day and had naturally become one. In that instance I would say "Well looks like she was a woman all along"

Grafting metal to my skin doesn't make me a robot, and cutting off my [SNIP] doesn't make me a woman.


Mod Note:

ALL MEMBERS: We expect civility and decorum within all topics.

a reply to: EKron

I'm scared too.

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: ketsuko

Maybe one of the best ways for Lila to do that would be to ponder how she would feel about being forced to use the boys' locker room, and the realize that's how her presence is making all those girls feel.

But that is completely different. As one poster pointed out the danger of violence in boys locker room is real and palpable. Where's the danger in girl's locker room?

It hasn't happent and Lila gave the school high marks for making sure it didn't. Just saying.

originally posted by: Reallyfolks

originally posted by: reldra

originally posted by: Reallyfolks

originally posted by: reldra

originally posted by: Bennyzilla
a reply to: Deaf Alien

I get the feeling rape victims would be equally upset, if not more, about a dude in the women's locker room

I don't think you are a woman. The 2 things are totally different.

No but considering how the average rape victim will act around males after rape.

Maybe right after. It also depends on the person how long it will take to not be generally in fear..of being alone, of walking after dark, of going on a date. However, the vast majority do not remain fearful of men or scared of male genitalia for the rest of their lives. Rape is about power, not sex or parts.

I understand that, you could have on going sexual abuse victims when in their home as well. Point is there are many reasons why someone might feel uncomfortable with the opposite physical make up in the locker room. Body image issues made worse by it, some girls just uncomfortable with the opposite sex in general (late bloomers). Etc. So it wasn't that there are rape victims in there but one of many reasons that the opposite physical makeup in the girls locker room could make them uncomfortable/stressed

But just one and one that believes they are female? Only half the girls were against this person using the female locker room. If it is a small school, there could be an entire row of empty lockers for anyone who is uncomfortable to go to. In a very crowded school, how many would keep looking or continue to feel uncomfortable after time passes?

a reply to: Bennyzilla

But a biomechanical device implanted in your body WOULD classify you as a cyborg.

Just FYI.

ETA: not joking. A buddy of mine has an implant to control pain signals from dead nerves. It's pretty much right along side his spine. He charges up with a little induction pad and a battery pack he has to plug into the wall.

a reply to: TrueBrit


!

originally posted by: Doom and Gloom

This is male privilege, plain and simple.

Bull#. This is not male privilege. This is some one who needs counseling trying to force their own confusion onto others. Now crying out to the PC media for attention. Proper arrangements were made. You people on the board are really becoming annoying.

Why would it make others confused? Why do you think she is confused? It is still not clear if the faculty restroom has a shower. Also, the faculty restroom is gender neutral- with ADULT males using it. There is an entirely different kind of uncomfortable there.

originally posted by: reldra

originally posted by: Reallyfolks

originally posted by: reldra

originally posted by: Reallyfolks

originally posted by: reldra

originally posted by: Bennyzilla
a reply to: Deaf Alien

I get the feeling rape victims would be equally upset, if not more, about a dude in the women's locker room

I don't think you are a woman. The 2 things are totally different.

No but considering how the average rape victim will act around males after rape.

Maybe right after. It also depends on the person how long it will take to not be generally in fear..of being alone, of walking after dark, of going on a date. However, the vast majority do not remain fearful of men or scared of male genitalia for the rest of their lives. Rape is about power, not sex or parts.

I understand that, you could have on going sexual abuse victims when in their home as well. Point is there are many reasons why someone might feel uncomfortable with the opposite physical make up in the locker room. Body image issues made worse by it, some girls just uncomfortable with the opposite sex in general (late bloomers). Etc. So it wasn't that there are rape victims in there but one of many reasons that the opposite physical makeup in the girls locker room could make them uncomfortable/stressed

But just one and one that believes they are female? Only half the girls were against this person using the female locker room. If it is a small school, there could be an entire row of empty lockers for anyone who is uncomfortable to go to. In a very crowded school, how many would keep looking or continue to feel uncomfortable after time passes?

Again the point you seem to be making is that suck it up until you get over to the girls feeling uncomfortable. You have sided with Lila...fine. at the same time why can't Lila suck it up and go with the boys or seperate facility? That's the base of this argument here. One side believes Lila should suck it up, others believe the girls should. Stripping away everything else it comes down to whose feelings matter the most. Does Lilas feelings get forced, do the girls? That's the only way it currently happens . Or a seperate facility.


Edit: Lila may believe she is female but has male parts. At this point in reality this is a cross dresser in transition. Not said to be mean. But considering feelings/outward appearance/physical makeup/and what Lila believes she is, that's what it is.

a reply to: Bennyzilla

You know I used to think of it like that too. If you look into it more, transgender people actually are different mentally. We are all aware that men and women think pretty different for the most part. They have the brain and whatnot of a woman, but the body of a man, or vice versa. It eeks me out a little bit too, but if I get out of my own head and imagine what that would be like it's pretty horrifying. I don't necessarily think that surgery is the best option, but the best one for now for people who are legitimately transgender. I'd rather someone not kill themselves while science and society catch up and these people can feel comfortable knowing they were made different and become able to accept themselves and their bodies.

Still think a wang in the women's room is inappropriate.

guess what, when future archaeologists dig up bruce jenners bones he will be sorted in the male pile.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: JadeStar

She had a separate facility for her use. She chose not to use it.

I can understand why the rest of the girls would not want to use the locker room with an anatomical male.

Funny enough, I actually agree with you wholly. I actually have a somewhat similar experience, though in a less pleasant environment.

I was homeless a couple years ago, and was sleeping at a women's shelter in down town Seattle. It was a women only, with entry control. Men, unless they had legit business there, were never allowed in, and even those with business had an escort. If this seems draconian and sexist, it is not. Most of the women at the shelter were homeless and escaping violence due to men. Men who continued to stalk and threaten these women. There were also predators who circled hung out across the street, waiting to pounce whenever a potential victim left the security of the shelter. I remember a few times cops were called in because an ex-boyfriend/husband or pimp or drug dealer was at the door screaming and trying to forcibly break in to get at someone inside. As nasty, grimy, filthy, and depressing as the shelter was, it was still a safe, male free haven.

Well, not entirely so. You see, the shelter did accept male-to-female transgenders, none of whom were even halfway in their transit. All of them were still anatomically male. And a lot of the women there were NOT happy about that. They weren't homophobes. Many were victims of male violence, and did not want to sleep, shower, or change in the same room as a man. The Trans people at the shelter, while they might believe and feel that they are women, are still biologically and anatomically male. The looked, talked, and walked like men in drag. For the women at the shelter, this was a constant point of tension and anger. While the trans people didn't bother me much, I did understand why most of the women were not cool with it.

Trans people have a few shelters in Seattle, which I support fully. I also support the rights of women (and men) to have sex segregated facilities available to people who are anatomically a member of that sex. For a trans to be eligible to be to be considered a member of that sex, they must have had at least some physical modification. Either hormone therapy, or genital alteration. Believing one self to be the opposite sex is simply not enough.

It's why I support separate facilities for men, women, and people transitioning into one or the other. While I fully support the rights of Transsexuals to exist and be who they feel they are meant to be, I also believe that the Trans have to accept certain allowances for differences. I don't believe they should be isolated, but I believe they need to accept that their transition into another gender is a process that should be eased into, not forced.

If this trans individual had separate facilities available for her use, she should have used them, and not create this sort of drama. Trying to force people to accept you as a full female while you still have man-junk dangling between your legs is just not going to work.

Now if she had had her genitals altered to female genitals, and/or was actually taking hormones to alter her, and was denied use of the girls locker, then I would take issue.

a reply to: TrueBrit

That is insanely cool! Do a thread, I'd never herd of such a thing? Blows my mind the leaps and bounds technology is taking!

Maybe someday they'll invent a chip that shocks people when they're being an ass so I can go out in public more often.

originally posted by: Domo1
a reply to: EKron

This is male privilege, plain and simple.

Can you explain that? This seems like special snowflake privilege.

Waggling your male parts around in a protected woman's space is a complete disrespect for the comfort levels of female bodied women that I find almost inconceivable from someone claiming woman identity. It is absolutely alpha male privileged behaviour no ifs ands or buts.

a reply to: DrakeINFERNO

Not if the people who did her surgeries are damned good at their jobs. She has money, so there is no reason she couldn't get some bone sculpting done to make things just that little bit more lady like.