FOX News: Transgender girl drops class after 200 protest for and against her.

a reply to: kaylaluv

You can be gay, and no one may know about it, unless you tell them.

You can be transgender, but that fact will be obvious when you undress.

There is a big difference here. One is a gender discussion, the other is a sexual preference discussion.

The OP's article is saying that other girls were not comfortable with the transgender girl in the same lockeroom as them, due to being transgendered.

This is not quite the same as being gay and what someones sexual preference is.

Locker rooms tend to not have much privacy, you get undressed in front of a lot of other people.

a reply to: Reallyfolks

It is not dishonest.

It is simply unpalatable to you, because you do not understand diddly squat about the nature of the situation, or where the onus should be for change.

a reply to: kaylaluv

The number of women that have been sexually assaulted is staggering. Even if you're one of the people that thinks it's a conspiracy and the stats are off, quite a few women have been raped. Seeing a penis could be incredibly traumatic. People are allowed to be uncomfortable when naked around the opposite sex (sex isn't gender).

Considering that so many people are obviously uncomfortable, why should their feelings be treated as less real than the transgender's?

I'm sure some might be uncomfortable that the transgender will be attracted to them (sure are a lot of gay transgender folks) but that's not really the issue as you pointed out with the lesbian argument.

We've had this discussion before. Remember the "military" thread?

How discrete this person was is unknown or if changing clothes included showers or nudity but if other girls were exposed to Lila's male genitals in a protected woman's space, then that's just wrong.

Assuming the worst case scenario, If this is a case of a transgender person thinking it is okay and their right to expose their male privates because they identify with or think they are girls, that does absolutely nothing to help or promote transgender rights. It does just the opposite.

Without really knowing what is involved here in terms of discretion or other privacy options, this is just Fox News being Fox News. If this girl did have her own facility to use, which I didn't see in the article or the video but chose not to use it and if other girls have to deal with a penis in their own facility, then this person is just being an ass and only alienating those that might be allies to the transgender cause, not helping it.

If she was discrete or had a private bathroom stall and nudity wasn't involved in changing for PE class around other girls, that's one thing I could see and maybe support but the story doesn't provide these details. It is best not to go all crazy on this story without knowing the particulars.

Regardless of how sympathetic and understanding I may be of transgender issues, if I had to see male genitals in the locker room at the women's fitness center, I'd have a problem with this and probably blow a gasket or at least have some choice words to share. This has more to do with stupid male privileged behavior than "identifying as a woman".

originally posted by: Reallyfolks



And the problem with the own facility is what? Avoid the bullying, avoid girls who have an issue with physicals males in the locker room. This is a wrong compromise why?

Because it pushes her out. Forces her away from the rest of society. It makes her even more "different" than she already is. Causes even more stigma around her.

I had a discomfort issue with other girls in the locker room, not because I was afraid of bullying or violence, but because I was shy, yet I was told to suck it up. I think these girls are not afraid for their lives or their virginity, they are just grossed out by the idea, and they need to suck it up.

If there are any rape victims, then they probably don't want to get naked in front of anyone, boy or girl. That's a separate issue.

a reply to: TrueBrit

I wore a tank top with a kitten DJing on some turntables to the gym yesterday. I'm straight, but you should have seen how uneasy some of the guys in the locker room were.

Dude, it's a hilarious cat with headphones around it's neck scratching on a record...

Some people are wound up way, way to tight about themselves and life in general. Good lord, you only get one life -- try and relax and just have a good time.

Shirt in question:

originally posted by: Reallyfolks

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: Reallyfolks

Again... I hope you are expecting the homosexuals and lesbians to use that facility too, since they might pose a tangible sexual threat to their fellows, by the same utterly barbarian logic.

If someone wants to use that facility but comparing people who have the same physical make up to a situation in which we have different physical make ups is dishonest. It's very rational to expect some girls to be uncomfortable about changing around physical males like some males would be uncomfortable about changing around physical females.

But you passionately took the side of social justice, ignoring reality, and the use of the word barbaric was droll at best. Feel free to carry on as the enlighten one between us.

I lived in co-ed dorms in college. The line to the male bathroom and showers was so much shorter in the morning, a lot of females, including myself, started to use that one. The females who weren't comfortable doing that continued to wait in long lines. No one seemed to care regardless. Just 1 or 2 short years before we had all been in high school. High school is supposed to prepare you for college. Not keep you sheltered from the world just to be completely surprised between one June and the following September.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: Domo1

I am straight, but I do not fit in neatly anywhere either.

I have to say, on that level I identify very strongly with folks who are often deliberately misunderstood and are victims largely of the stupidity of others.

Essentially, an awful lot of people have an ignorance problem, and they are not the ones getting told they cannot use the right locker room for them.

It's also ignorant thinking to think that putting opposite physical make ups in the same locker room will not be uncomfortable to people. Not all but some.

Undressing/no clothes on most people feel vulnerable in that position anyway. Doubt me? Why do you think one of the oldest most basic interrogation tactics used is to strip a person of clothes. Starts inducing feelings of vulnerability. Add to that the opposite physical make up and there are real feelings of discomfort.

a reply to: EKron

Actually, yes, there was an optional facility for the transgender girl to use:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

a reply to: Domo1

I'm surprised women ever get into relationships and have sex with men if that's the case.

a reply to: EKron

I agree that she probably doesn't need to be running around naked, as I imagine she might be a little uncomfortable without the feminine parts that the other girls have. But if she can be discreet, I say let her in.

a reply to: MystikMushroom

Right? Scary peni everywhere

originally posted by: kaylaluv

originally posted by: Reallyfolks



And the problem with the own facility is what? Avoid the bullying, avoid girls who have an issue with physicals males in the locker room. This is a wrong compromise why?

Because it pushes her out. Forces her away from the rest of society. It makes her even more "different" than she already is. Causes even more stigma around her.

I had a discomfort issue with other girls in the locker room, not because I was afraid of bullying or violence, but because I was shy, yet I was told to suck it up. I think these girls are not afraid for their lives or their virginity, they are just grossed out by the idea, and they need to suck it up.

If there are any rape victims, then they probably don't want to get naked in front of anyone, boy or girl. That's a separate issue.

She is already out and forcing discomfort on others in an attempt to stifle that for one will not help. And the feelings of vulnerability and discomfort when taking off clothes is a very real feeling as is mixing physical make ups . You didnt like being told to suck it up but your basically saying that's exactly what others should do because you can feel for this individual. That's very hypocritical to say the least.

originally posted by: reldra

originally posted by: Reallyfolks

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: Reallyfolks

Again... I hope you are expecting the homosexuals and lesbians to use that facility too, since they might pose a tangible sexual threat to their fellows, by the same utterly barbarian logic.

If someone wants to use that facility but comparing people who have the same physical make up to a situation in which we have different physical make ups is dishonest. It's very rational to expect some girls to be uncomfortable about changing around physical males like some males would be uncomfortable about changing around physical females.

But you passionately took the side of social justice, ignoring reality, and the use of the word barbaric was droll at best. Feel free to carry on as the enlighten one between us.

I lived in co-ed dorms in college. The line to the male bathroom and showers was so much shorter in the morning, a lot of females, including myself, started to use that one. The females who weren't comfortable doing that continued to wait in long lines. No one seemed to care regardless. Just 1 or 2 short years before we had all been in high school. High school is supposed to prepare you for college. Not keep you sheltered from the world just to be completely surprised between one June and the following September.

Do you see the difference. There was a choice for those not comfortable. So either the individual will be uncomfortable or a group of girls will be. Whose discomfort takes priority? Why should anyone's. Get a seperate facility.

a reply to: TrueBrit

The point I was going for (poorly executed) is that slapping on some makeup and saying that you're a woman doesn't make the genitals switch too, and that people are uncomfortable with it. I don't think you would sleep with this woman even if you found her attractive while she was sporting male genitalia. That doesn't make you a bigot, just as it doesn't make women who are uncomfortable seeing a penis in a woman's locker room doesn't make them bigots.

I realize that transgender people have different brain structures (apparently, I haven't looked much into it) and that it's not just playing dress up, but that doesn't change the fact that they're in fact very different, and that many are uncomfortable showering with the opposite sex. I am pretty darn straight on the spectrum, love me some naked ladies, but I don't want to shower with strangers of the opposite sex (or the same sex for that matter).

To me the correct locker room corresponds with your genitalia, not your gender.

People treat transgender folks like crap, but in this instance I don't begrudge anyone for being uncomfortable. This isn't complaining if someone with an Adam's apple wants to be referred to with female pronouns. This is something that many would find uncomfortable, regardless of their level of acceptance of transgender individuals.

You're a good guy, and I know you had a rough past and identify with people having a hard time being accepted as they are. I think that's admirable, but I think it's important to remember that everyone's feelings are valid, and that making 20 people uncomfortable so that one person can pretend they're not biologically different is a terrible idea.

a reply to: Reallyfolks

Personally, I think there should be separate bathrooms/showers/dressing rooms for each individual student, with completely enclosed rooms - not stalls. But schools won't pay to build those because most people don't want their taxes to go up in order to pay for that.

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
a reply to: Domo1

I'm surprised women ever get into relationships and have sex with men if that's the case.

Some don't until they are adults and ready for it. Doesn't happen in high school for all

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: Reallyfolks

Personally, I think there should be separate bathrooms/showers/dressing rooms for each individual student, with completely enclosed rooms - not stalls. But schools won't pay to build those because most people don't want their taxes to go up in order to pay for that.

And dealing in that reality which is a very good and valid point the next best compromise would be seperate facility or the individual is forced to wait till those uncomfortable leave or the opposite. I imagine a schedule issue comes up though and some wouldn't be happy with that. Seperate facility seems common sense considering

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: EKron

I agree that she probably doesn't need to be running around naked, as I imagine she might be a little uncomfortable without the feminine parts that the other girls have. But if she can be discreet, I say let her in.

That, and I think every school locker room should have some curtained stalls both with showers or without. Most private gyms do. That would solve problems for all.

I don't like changing in front of people at the gym, so I use a changing stall. Some change right in the open and that doesn't bother me.

a reply to: Domo1

So... Because she is biologically different from the other girls, and neurologically and also somewhat biologically therefore, different from the guys, not to mention at risk from potential violence in their locker room, the only other option is to alienate the poor thing completely?

That seems like an ineffective solution to the problem, that would be as bad as a long term solution, as failing to do anything or say anything about their evident gender crisis.