BLM and why i don't take it seriously.

a reply to: supermarket2012

Government could make it advantageous for businesses to move to the inner city and hire blacks. Financial incentive works wonders. I would be ecstatic if half of my tax dollars that go to military expense be re-routed to rewarding businesses that hired inner city blacks.

Also, schools in the inner city are notoriously poor, so they don't get the high tech advantages, nor do they get the best and brightest teachers that the rich neighborhoods get. Change that, and you might see a difference.

Also, funding for more community organizations who can work with black youth, and mentor them would help tremendously.

originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: kellyjay

BLM is a movement that is specifically about addressing state violence in the form of the institutional racism of the US criminal justice system. This is a Constitutional issue, therefor it needs to be brought to the government and to the people on all levels, local and nationally
.

Not challenging your assertion but could you please expand on why you believe this is a Constitutional issue?

a reply to: Puppylove

It has nothing to do with me personally.

Exactly, it doesn't. It has to do with how from the top down, the criminal justice system, treats and affects BLACK people.

a reply to: Asktheanimals

the 14th Amendment.

a reply to: supermarket2012

You say we should blame the government for not creating job opportunities? Exactly how is the government supposed to create job opportunities, and WHY is it the governments responsibility to do so? Jobs aren't just created out of think air you know. Jobs come in existence based on supply and demand of a product or service.

Well, they (the government) sure as hell aren't shy about taking the credit when the figures show jobs have been created. So obviously they should take the blame when there aren't enough jobs.

Besides, my understanding is the whole inner city ghetto thing started when black people all started moving in mass to urban areas to get those high paying manufacturing jobs that where so abundant back in the 70's. Then capitalism took over and they moved the jobs overseas, everybody lost there job and the area's all went down hill.

So it seems to me the reason these area's went down hill has more to do with the greed of the upper class and because the government allowed capitalism to rule, rather than having anything to do with the people who actually live there.

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: supermarket2012

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: supermarket2012

But blacks are three times more likely to be killed by a cop than whites - which is amazing when you consider that there are five times more whites then there are blacks. THAT is the issue that the BLM movement is trying to address.

What do you think would be a better name for a movement that is addressing the fact that blacks are three times more likely to be killed by cops than whites? Maybe "Blacks are three times more likely to be killed by cops than whites"? That isn't a very catchy name for a movement, is it.

You say blacks are three times more likely to be killed by a cop than whites. What you DON'T say, is what exactly CONTRIBUTES to that statistic? Do you think police officers drive around and say "Gee Mike, I haven't killed a BLACK MAN in almost a year! Let's go find us one!"

No. Blacks are more likely to commit violent crimes than whites. There are FAR more black gang members than white gang members. Crime is ALWAYS higher among ethnic minorities, that is just a fact.

Most of these murders are occuring in inner city areas, or in ghettos/hoods. A police officer would have to search for HOURS just to MAYBE find a white person in these areas.


Let me make this more clear:

1. Most of the police murders occur in low income areas. The percentage of white people in these areas is MUCH, MUCH lower than black individuals. So common sense says a BLACK PERSON IS MORE LIKELY TO BE KILLED in these areas than a white person!

2. Low income areas have MUCH, MUCH more crime than high income areas. Therefore, the police are fighting a tougher front in the LOW INCOME AREAS. Common sense says THIS is where the conflicts are most likely to happen.

3. In these low income, black areas, people do not cooperate with police. The police know this, and this makes them even more on guard ,more tense in these areas. Police also know they are likely to be targetted or attacked in these areas, again, leading them to be more aggressive and on guard.



My WHOLE point in this reply is that while the statistic you gave, "Blacks are three times more likely to be murdered than whites by a cop" might be true, you are at fault in ASSUMING that this is because of racism, or wrongdoing on the police's part.

So do you think white people in the suburbs dont use drugs? Or is it that the cops don't look for drugs in the suburbs? The officer michael wood said in an interview on the young turks that cops stay out of nice nieghborhoods because they don't want to "accidently" arrest a judges son, or maybe a lawyers kid.

End the war on drugs and more than half of arrests wouldn't be needed.

lower crime rate in white suburbia = less cops
also white people tend to sell their drugs to friends etc inside the home, and not on street corners like black people do, if you have a higher police presence in predominantly black areas because there is more crime, that means theres a higher police presence hence more arrests are made.

its not rocket science

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: Puppylove

The LGBT rights movement has been about the rights of LGBT citizens to have equal access to housing, employment, marriage, etc. It doesn't mean that there aren't other groups having many of the same problems. It is just that LGBT groups wanted to focus on themselves not getting these rights. Do you blame them for focusing on their own rights?

Same with the women's rights movements. Are women the only ones facing adversity? No, but shouldn't they be allowed to start their own movement that focuses on them?

There are plenty of BLM groups across the nation that accept white supporters. Sure, there are a few hard core militants, but that happens in all these types of movements. I've heard of some militant feminists who bar all men from their women's rights gatherings. I've also heard of some militant gays who don't want straights anywhere near them.

Most BLM groups, as with most women's rights groups, as with most LGBT groups welcome any and all supporters.

Actually, it is funny that you decide to use LGBT as an example. I'm not sure if you realize it or not, but the LGBT community has had a LOT of infighting over the exclusion or inclusion of various different forms of gender and/or sexual expression. I'm not sure if I can provide links on here, but just go to google and type "LGBT include" , and you will find many articles about the infighting regarding this issue.

As for the women's rights groups, I see the same problem with feminism as I see with the #BLackLivesMatter movement, and I certainly have made my issues with feminism clear in the past.

You see, when feminism first started in the US, it was because women couldn't vote, and didn't have equal rights as men. So, the issue of not being able to vote did NOT APPLY TO MEN. The issue of police brutality applies to ALL RACES. Do you see the difference there?

a reply to: Kali74

Symptom symptom symptom, as long as you fight the symptom and not the cause you're wasting your time. The cause is bigger than BLACKS, therefore is better fought by bringing others with similar problems with the same cause together.

It's # like this why we still have these problems. There's two things that create division.

On is forced segregation, making people out to be different and pushing them away. The other is self segregation, which is making yourself out to be different and pulling yourself away from others.

Both are equally responsible for the divisions in our society.

However a lot of ignorant people seem to hold only the first type of segregation responsible while pretending self segregation doesn't exist.

a reply to: supermarket2012

What we are suggesting is the OPPOSITE of "tailoring" the movement, instead we are saying to not be racially exclusive.

Why? When the criminal justice system treats BLACK people differently than everyone else?

"Donate Today! Help The Fight Against Skin Cancer In African Americans!" Why not just say "Donate Today! Help The Fight Against Skin Cancer!"

It's more akin to a Colon Cancer group showing up at a Skin Cancer fundraiser and saying Colon Cancer matters too,

The fact is, the black leaders like Jesse Jackson and AL Sharpton are themselves trying to TAILOR a much broader issue of police militization and brutality to BLACKS ONLY. THEY are the ones doing the "tailoring".

You're obviously unaware of the rejection of those two by BLM.

As a white male, why should I give a rats ass about #BlackLivesMatter?

Did anyone ask you to? Here's the thing though that you all you people that take offense should realize. Their success is success for all of us so how about a little less whine and a little more gratitude?

To Say #BlackLivesMatter, makes me think that as a white male, perhaps I'm not as important.

Repeatedly it has been pointed out that the statement isn't exclusionary. Are you ever pulled over for no reason? Ever stopped by a cop while doing nothing but walking down the street? I doubt it. We are less likely to ever have an encounter with the police just out and about our daily lives, we are more likely to be let go by cops, prosecutors, judges even when we have committed a crime, we are less likely to be targeted by bull# laws like taking up too much room on public transportation.

This is reality, it's not a made up persecution complex... black people are treated differently by the law and at it's extreme black people are more likely to die at the hands of the police. It is very appropriate to be specific in saying that black lives matter because our justice system shows that it doesn't think black lives matter.

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: supermarket2012

Government could make it advantageous for businesses to move to the inner city and hire blacks. Financial incentive works wonders. I would be ecstatic if half of my tax dollars that go to military expense be re-routed to rewarding businesses that hired inner city blacks.

Also, schools in the inner city are notoriously poor, so they don't get the high tech advantages, nor do they get the best and brightest teachers that the rich neighborhoods get. Change that, and you might see a difference.

Also, funding for more community organizations who can work with black youth, and mentor them would help tremendously.

See, I agree with much of what you said there....but there is still MANY problems with those ideas.

First of all, land/rent prices are already much cheaper in the poor areas of most cities, even without financial incentives. Part of the reason many businesses choose NOT to move there, is because of all the violence and crime that goes on in the black areas. Especially recently, have you seen all of the LOOTING that has gone on as a result of the clashes with young black men/police? Businesses that were 100% black owned and operated, were STILL LOOTED. As a business owner, I would NEVER move my business to these areas until I saw a reduction in crime and violence. I really don't want to invest my energy, time, and money into a business that might be destroyed, or broken into and robbed as soon as I move into the area.

Secondly, many inner city blacks don't WANT to work. They would lose their benefits, and therefore it would actually "cost" them money to get a job, unless the job paid REALLY well. Without education, a skillset, and/or experience, they aren't going to earn enough to make them want to work.


As for the issues with schools - that isn't just a black problem. The public school systems aren't given enough money by the government, and that is a nation-wide issue. The teachers salaries are WAY too low, and the quality of public education is notoriously poor in our country.


Also, you can't look to our government to keep shelling out all the money to fix all of these problems. After all, money doesn't grow on trees. There is a budget for everything, and when you go over budget, you have to cut the budget elsewhere. It is all a give and take system, a delicate one at that.

I agree, I think our elected leaders need to do a better job of allocating resources and budget. However, I DO NOT think our government should be responsible for 100% of the bill. Where are all the black individuals who came from the ghetto, and now make millions?

Don't you think it is odd, when you watch a rap video, and nearly EVERY SINGLE rapper glorifies the hood they came from? A rapper gets street cred partly based on the area he came from. The more violent and crime-ridden the area is, the more respect he gains. The rappers talk about their hoods with SO MUCH PRIDE, and yet once they get rich, they move out of the hood and never look back.

Instead of saying "Why doesn't the government do this, Why doesn't the government do that?" why can't you ask the rich rappers, athletes, and entertainers who came from the projects and hoods to fund the community organizations, and to set examples?

originally posted by: supermarket2012


Actually, it is funny that you decide to use LGBT as an example. I'm not sure if you realize it or not, but the LGBT community has had a LOT of infighting over the exclusion or inclusion of various different forms of gender and/or sexual expression. I'm not sure if I can provide links on here, but just go to google and type "LGBT include" , and you will find many articles about the infighting regarding this issue.

There are always going to be disagreements within any group. No one is going to 100% agree. So?

As for the women's rights groups, I see the same problem with feminism as I see with the #BLackLivesMatter movement, and I certainly have made my issues with feminism clear in the past.

You see, when feminism first started in the US, it was because women couldn't vote, and didn't have equal rights as men. So, the issue of not being able to vote did NOT APPLY TO MEN. The issue of police brutality applies to ALL RACES. Do you see the difference there?

You are talking about the Suffrage movement. What about the women's rights movements of the 21st century? Equal employment rights did apply to other groups than just women.

It is human nature to band together in the group that you most closely identify with (blacks, gays, women). That doesn't negate the issue as to why they banded together in the first place. The issue still exists. And the fact is, police brutality against blacks is greater than police brutality against any other group of people. Now you may say they deserve more brutality, but the families of the unarmed blacks killed by police may disagree with you.

I'm black and don't take these BLM buffoons seriously. First of all, the OPs analysis is spot on and exposes the utter hypocrisy and lack of logic and critical thinking of the BLM movement.

The black community's issues are so much bigger than a few thugs getting into scuffles / killed with police. The problem is to address the real issues in the community means having to admit that white people aren't the cause of all the issues.

BLM has a specific narrative they are pushing which when one looks at objectively is complete bunk. The statistics, data, and even individual cases they have been holding up simply do not support that there some crisis of black men being unjustly killed by police.

There is a large segment of the black community that has been completely brainwashed by liberals since the 70s.

originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: supermarket2012

What we are suggesting is the OPPOSITE of "tailoring" the movement, instead we are saying to not be racially exclusive.

Why? When the criminal justice system treats BLACK people differently than everyone else?

"Donate Today! Help The Fight Against Skin Cancer In African Americans!" Why not just say "Donate Today! Help The Fight Against Skin Cancer!"

It's more akin to a Colon Cancer group showing up at a Skin Cancer fundraiser and saying Colon Cancer matters too,

The fact is, the black leaders like Jesse Jackson and AL Sharpton are themselves trying to TAILOR a much broader issue of police militization and brutality to BLACKS ONLY. THEY are the ones doing the "tailoring".

You're obviously unaware of the rejection of those two by BLM.

As a white male, why should I give a rats ass about #BlackLivesMatter?

Did anyone ask you to? Here's the thing though that you all you people that take offense should realize. Their success is success for all of us so how about a little less whine and a little more gratitude?

To Say #BlackLivesMatter, makes me think that as a white male, perhaps I'm not as important.

Repeatedly it has been pointed out that the statement isn't exclusionary. Are you ever pulled over for no reason? Ever stopped by a cop while doing nothing but walking down the street? I doubt it. We are less likely to ever have an encounter with the police just out and about our daily lives, we are more likely to be let go by cops, prosecutors, judges even when we have committed a crime, we are less likely to be targeted by bull# laws like taking up too much room on public transportation.

This is reality, it's not a made up persecution complex... black people are treated differently by the law and at it's extreme black people are more likely to die at the hands of the police. It is very appropriate to be specific in saying that black lives matter because our justice system shows that it doesn't think black lives matter.

This post right here that I'm replying to should be viewed by EVERYONE in this thread. Despite the pro #BlackLivesMatter people on this thread trying to convince us that #BlackLivesMatter is "just a name", and doesn't mean the movement focuses on black individuals, take a close look at this person's post.

First, he makes the statement that the criminal justice system treats black people differently. Really? How so? I wasn't aware that judges are required to punish black individuals harsher than white individuals. Can you at least provide a source for this law?

Then, you tell me I should "have a little less whine, and more gratitude" for the BlackLivesMatter movement. Really? So now I'm supposed to have GRATITUDE for a movement that specifically excludes me? That is borderline insanity right there. Also, what makes you think I'm resentful, upset, or whining about this matter? I'm only posting on this thread because this is a current topic right now. As any current trends, I find it interesting, so I'm giving my thoughts on the matter. It isn't like at any point throughout the day I'm thinking "Damn Those #BlackLivesMatter folks! I sure am angry!" I'm just having a simple discussion.


Then you have the nerve to ask me " Are you ever pulled over for no reason? Ever stopped by a cop while doing nothing but walking down the street? I doubt it"

Really, you are going to make that assumption? Yes, I have been pulled over for no reason before, and harassed, more times than I can count on two hands. Do you really think I would be so involved with this thread and have such a strong stance on police brutality if I myself wasn't a victim of it? Being a victim of police brutality, and being white, is why the #BlackLivesMatter slogan, and APPROACH (more than just a slogan) , is silly to me. It ISNT a black issue, that is what I'm trying to get across to you - but you just aren't getting it.

As a white male, I have been pulled over for no reason, harassed, physically assaulted, and even molested before by an officer. Yes, you read that correctly....I was molested by a male officer in my teens, along with another one of my male friends, while several other officers watched and did nothing. That incident affected me and how I view police for many, many years....and to this day still plays a role in my perception towards authority and police (although much less so).

I have been involved in many encounters with police during my younger years, and I have never, not once, seen officers treat a black male any differently. I'm not saying racism DOESN'T happen among police, but I'm saying that I personally haven't seen it. Racism is a global issue, a universal one, so sure, there will be some racist cops, just like there are some racist judges, racist doctors, racist gangbangers, etc.


What I don't get, is why you guys will first say that #BlackLivesMatter is just the name, and the leaders of the movement recognize it is a problem for whites just as much as blacks......but then in the very next post, you will contradict what you said entirely, and try to make it out like it is MUCH more of a black issue than a white one.

a reply to: kaylaluv

It doesn't negate the issue, it just as the human population grows and more and more groups pop up makes each other more and more ineffective.

It's not a matter of not understanding why this happens, it's a matter of knowing there's a better more effective way. It's a matter of seeing more and more division resulting in thousands of groups screaming for themselves and stepping on each others toes, and seeing the politicians grin with glee as they laugh and take advantage of these divisions to slow progress and keep us all down.

All of these causes are legitimate, even BLM is a legitimate cause, I won't argue that, the problem is, it's undermining itself, all these causes are. I'm not going to support banging our heads into the wall and doing exactly what the manipulators want us to do.

I will forever argue for uniting and against division. That's the only way we'll ever really win. And I mean WIN, not be given little carrots now and then.

originally posted by: supermarket2012




Don't you think it is odd, when you watch a rap video, and nearly EVERY SINGLE rapper glorifies the hood they came from? A rapper gets street cred partly based on the area he came from. The more violent and crime-ridden the area is, the more respect he gains. The rappers talk about their hoods with SO MUCH PRIDE, and yet once they get rich, they move out of the hood and never look back.

That simply is not true.

globalgrind.com...

www.rantsports.com...

I'm sure I could find quite a few others if I spent more than 60 seconds on it.

originally posted by: supermarket2012
Don't you think it is odd, when you watch a rap video, and nearly EVERY SINGLE rapper glorifies the hood they came from? A rapper gets street cred partly based on the area he came from. The more violent and crime-ridden the area is, the more respect he gains. The rappers talk about their hoods with SO MUCH PRIDE, and yet once they get rich, they move out of the hood and never look back.

You are referring to gansta rap from the 90's. Rap doesn't do that as much anymore. You DO know that music stylings evolve right?

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: supermarket2012
Don't you think it is odd, when you watch a rap video, and nearly EVERY SINGLE rapper glorifies the hood they came from? A rapper gets street cred partly based on the area he came from. The more violent and crime-ridden the area is, the more respect he gains. The rappers talk about their hoods with SO MUCH PRIDE, and yet once they get rich, they move out of the hood and never look back.

You are referring to gansta rap from the 90's. Rap doesn't do that as much anymore. You DO know that music stylings evolve right?

All one has to do is go to worldstarhiphop and look at the video postings. Yeah, there are a few underground MCs, but by in large, rap has become nothing but buckdancing minstrels glorifying thug life. I'm a huge hip hop fan but totally embarrassed by this coonery.

The black community is seriously in cultural decline.

a reply to: Puppylove

Okay, so let's group together gays, blacks and women in one big group against the white heterosexual male. What about the white heterosexual male's rights?

Now, we could group everyone together based on an issue, but there are multiple issues in the world, so that just means there are still lots of different groups, one for each issue.

Any way you look at it, there will be multiple groups with multiple issues. That's just the way it works. If you try to get one big group of everyone with all issues rolled into one - well, you can see how that wouldn't accomplish anything.

how many of these effin threads are there going to be, all spewing out the same rhetoric. quit race baiting, its always the same users going back and forth trying to solve issues in front of the comfort of their keyboard.

repetition does not equal persuasion.
:im betting 10 $ theres going to be another 10 pages long, i hat BLM thread in 3 days

you dont like BLM, ok. start a movement... not online tho. go shout your numbers and stats in the streets, subways, in front of schools, capital hill etc.

anyone can twist figures to suit the point they are trying to make. everyone does it. its the American way.

I see people conflating black/minority with being poor. The justice system in the U.S. set-up against people that cannot afford good lawyers to fight for them. To make this a Black vs. other race issue is irrelevant. Hell OJ Simpson walked away on charges of murder. Was that because he was not black or because he was wealthy enough to hire great counsel. I am white and was #ed with by pigs my whole damn youth. When you are hanging around in public smoking illegal substances, expect to be screwed with.

As someone with a gripe against police and the justice system, it irks me for people to make this out to be only against blacks/ and or race. We are a far cry away from the 60"s, and to make this out as a cop vs. blacks and not cop vs. ordinary peasant does none of us any favors.

Plus white people in affluent neighborhoods tend to help police investigations more easily by singing like a canary than people in the projects. We generally don't make everyone scared to cooperate by threatening with snitches get stitches or end up in ditches.

Also, in cities I have lived in it is the gang bangers who cops are worried about. In Casa Blanca Riverside, CA some Mexicans shot at a police helicopter with an AK-47. Bad part of town doing bad #. In San Diego, Bloods have look outs on rooftops in some of there blocks. The are equipped with pretty mean guns and can snipe on them. A lot of the neighborhoods have one way in and one way out. How do you think cops are feeling when they go into areas where they are targets. The are investigating say shots fired and are going into an area where people do not cooperate with police and will actually murder them to keep their enterprise rolling?