BLM and why i don't take it seriously.

a reply to: kellyjay

I'm not trying to defend the BLM movement here, just trying to get you to think honestly and openly about your position by questioning certain things about it.

originally posted by: kellyjay

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs

originally posted by: kellyjay

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
I'm sure everyone will lose sleep over your lack of support for a great movement...

You are after all, the centre of the universe.
If you don't take them seriously, who will?

/sarc


#BlackLivesMatter

really? thats what you have to offer?


great input

You equated racism to "a veruca"...

I don't take you seriously.


#BlackLivesMatter

clearly your comprehension is skewed....

No my comprehension is fine...

You said fighting racism instead of black on black crime is like fighting a veruca before treating cancer...

You said it...

& now...

a reply to: kellyjay where a abouts in America do you live? Somewhere with a high African American population? What do you see of the treatment of those individuals in your locality?

Sorry it's just your location says Scotland?

Lots of black people do protest against violence within there communities, they also do try to do things for there community that might have a positive influence. Problem is, you never see it on the news, because white people and the middle class in general aren't interested in seeing black people trying to do something positive in there community. People just want to have there prejudice & racist mentalities justified by seeing black people rioting and creating havoc.

Like seriously... did you ever consider its the lack of action by police & government that's to blame for the high murder rates in black communities? Since its a well established fact that how important a murder investigation is in America, all depends on the persons skin colour and zip code they belong too.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: kellyjay

I'm confused why you think the existence of a completely different problem within the black community suddenly makes another problem irrelevant. Can't we just acknowledge that BOTH police violence and blacks killing other blacks are problems that the black community faces? Or are we only allowed to acknowledge one at a time?

I think the problem comes with the NAME of the movement. The very name "Black Lives Matter", combined with the general attitude of the movement that police are singling out black men and murdering them, is ironic, considering how FEW black men are murdered by police compared to being murdered by OTHER black men.

You are right...they are two separate issues. Not ENTIRELY issue, as it the AGRESSION and VIOLENCE within the black community that contributes to many cop on black murders and black on black murders together.

Even though they are separate issues....with a name like "Black Lives Matter", you assume that black people want the KILLING of black men to stop. Since THAT is the case, one can't HELP but point out that COPS aren't the main KILLERS of black men, other BLACK men are.


Honestly, I think the black community is segregating THEMSELVES FURTHER with a stupid name like "Black Lives Matter". Police brutality is NOT a black issue, it is a HUMAN issue.

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa
Lots of black people do protest against violence within there communities, they also do try to do things for there community that might have a positive influence. Problem is, you never see it on the news, because white people and the middle class in general aren't interested in seeing black people trying to do something positive in there community. People just want to have there prejudice & racist mentalities justified by seeing black people rioting and creating havoc.

Like seriously... did you ever consider its the lack of action by police & government that's to blame for the high murder rates in black communities? Since its a well established fact that how important a murder investigation is in America, all depends on the persons skin colour and zip code they belong too.

So it is the police and government's fault that black people murder themselves now? Really?

Do police put out the violent rap music that so many children in the hood try to emulate? Do police encourage violent street gangs to form in the inner cities and spread like wild fire to the suburbs and everywhere else? Do the police stand on the corner and sell coc aine and heroin to blacks?

Also, our government does more for black people than most governments do for ANY of their people. The welfare black people get is at an all time high....our government basically PAYS for a HUGE percentage of blacks to live without working. I know, I'm from the inner city....

It is almost comical. You can't have it both ways.


If some black leaders would step up in each neighborhood, and have a representative who stays in contact and has occasional meetings with elected officials and the police chiefs, there would be a LOT less problems. The fact is, when a murder occurs in the hood, NO ONE TALKS. NO ONE SAYS ANYTHING. They all protect each other....so the cops can't even do their jobs.

originally posted by: supermarket2012

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: kellyjay

I'm confused why you think the existence of a completely different problem within the black community suddenly makes another problem irrelevant. Can't we just acknowledge that BOTH police violence and blacks killing other blacks are problems that the black community faces? Or are we only allowed to acknowledge one at a time?

I think the problem comes with the NAME of the movement. The very name "Black Lives Matter", combined with the general attitude of the movement that police are singling out black men and murdering them, is ironic, considering how FEW black men are murdered by police compared to being murdered by OTHER black men.

But isn't the comparison in reference to how many black people are killed by police versus how many of any other race is killed by police?

You are right...they are two separate issues. Not ENTIRELY issue, as it the AGRESSION and VIOLENCE within the black community that contributes to many cop on black murders and black on black murders together.

Even though they are separate issues....with a name like "Black Lives Matter", you assume that black people want the KILLING of black men to stop. Since THAT is the case, one can't HELP but point out that COPS aren't the main KILLERS of black men, other BLACK men are.

Well the name is unfortunate yes, but does that mean the issue isn't important?

Honestly, I think the black community is segregating THEMSELVES FURTHER with a stupid name like "Black Lives Matter". Police brutality is NOT a black issue, it is a HUMAN issue.

Well the amount of police brutality against blacks outstrips the brutality against any other race. That is DEFINITELY a fact. I mean I don't think anyone should be unfairly beaten by the police, but to ignore the racial possibility is almost like ignoring an elephant in the room.

Though to me, this all boils down to the war on drugs. Most problems related to crime and violence in this country boil down to that. If we wanted to be TRULY honest about these things, we'd have serious discussions about ending the war on drugs. But jailing people with addictions makes some very greedy people a lot of money, so it continues while fueling America's desire to try to forcibly correct bad behavior.

originally posted by: woodwardjnr
a reply to: kellyjay where a abouts in America do you live? Somewhere with a high African American population? What do you see of the treatment of those individuals in your locality?

Sorry it's just your location says Scotland?

I'm from inner city Chicago, and now I live in Atlanta. Let me tell you, the racism here in Atlanta is at an ALL TIME HIGH. Being a white male, I am fully aware of black privilege in my city. As a white male, there are few neighborhoods I can walk in without fear of being killed or hurt. As a white male, I've been a victim of racism and abuse by black individuals may times over.

Racism is alive and well - on both sides. As a white male, I see one side of the fence. There is also a lot of racism here from whites , but being white I'm not really subjected to that.


Also, the blacks here in ATL aren't really victims. They get tons of financial support, at least HALF of the police officers and elected officials are all black, most of the city is black.

a reply to: supermarket2012

But blacks are three times more likely to be killed by a cop than whites - which is amazing when you consider that there are five times more whites then there are blacks. THAT is the issue that the BLM movement is trying to address.

What do you think would be a better name for a movement that is addressing the fact that blacks are three times more likely to be killed by cops than whites? Maybe "Blacks are three times more likely to be killed by cops than whites"? That isn't a very catchy name for a movement, is it.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: supermarket2012

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: kellyjay

I'm confused why you think the existence of a completely different problem within the black community suddenly makes another problem irrelevant. Can't we just acknowledge that BOTH police violence and blacks killing other blacks are problems that the black community faces? Or are we only allowed to acknowledge one at a time?

I think the problem comes with the NAME of the movement. The very name "Black Lives Matter", combined with the general attitude of the movement that police are singling out black men and murdering them, is ironic, considering how FEW black men are murdered by police compared to being murdered by OTHER black men.

But isn't the comparison in reference to how many black people are killed by police versus how many of any other race is killed by police?

You are right...they are two separate issues. Not ENTIRELY issue, as it the AGRESSION and VIOLENCE within the black community that contributes to many cop on black murders and black on black murders together.

Even though they are separate issues....with a name like "Black Lives Matter", you assume that black people want the KILLING of black men to stop. Since THAT is the case, one can't HELP but point out that COPS aren't the main KILLERS of black men, other BLACK men are.

Well the name is unfortunate yes, but does that mean the issue isn't important?

Honestly, I think the black community is segregating THEMSELVES FURTHER with a stupid name like "Black Lives Matter". Police brutality is NOT a black issue, it is a HUMAN issue.

Well the amount of police brutality against blacks outstrips the brutality against any other race. That is DEFINITELY a fact. I mean I don't think anyone should be unfairly beaten by the police, but to ignore the racial possibility is almost like ignoring an elephant in the room.

Though to me, this all boils down to the war on drugs. Most problems related to crime and violence in this country boil down to that. If we wanted to be TRULY honest about these things, we'd have serious discussions about ending the war on drugs. But jailing people with addictions makes some very greedy people a lot of money, so it continues while fueling America's desire to try to forcibly correct bad behavior.

Every point you've made is valid. I completely see where you are coming from, and when I was younger, I felt much the same way as you. I'm not saying that to diminish your point of view, not at all. I just take a pragmatic stance in life....and my experiences ALWAYS trump my beliefs.

Over the years I've met hundreds and hundreds of people that have opened my eyes to the black community and their issues. The truth is, our country has grown a LOT, and police brutality is much LESS skewed racially then ever before.

Is police brutality against blacks still an issue? Of course it is! However, sometimes you have to clean your own house before you can start trying to clean the neighborhood. What I mean is, the black community is destroying THEMSELVES. They need to rise up, and start working with police to FIGHT crime, and EDUCATE the youth, and SINGLE OUT the "thugs" and "gangsters" and pimps, etc, etc.


And no, it isn't just a socioeconomic issue. There are black neighborhoods here in Atlanta that have higher income then many white neighborhoods....and STILL these black neighborhoods are littered with gangbangers, drug dealers, prostitutes, crime, murder, theft, etc, etc.


The fact remains that the black community as a whole is more aggressive then other communities. That comes full circle back to my point that the AGGRESSION and CRIME and TURN YOUR CHEEK ON CRIME attitude all contributes to how police approach black males.

a reply to: kaylaluv

I think the title should be #Endpolicecorruption, since well that solves this issue and then some, and has a larger group to pull from to actually fix the problem, but what do I know. Let's all just keep trying to fight the individual symptoms separately cause it's so damn effective. I mean smaller groups are so much more effective at making a difference.

a reply to: supermarket2012

Plenty of black leaders and organizations in Chicago and elsewhere spend a lot of time and energy trying to prevent crime in their communities. There are rallies, conferences, prayer vigils and gun turn-in days. Last year, thousands of volunteers manned "Safe Passage" routes to get children to school unharmed.

It's no secret that rates of violent crime are far higher among blacks than among whites. What is generally overlooked is that these rates have dropped sharply over the past two decades. The Center on Juvenile and Criminal Justice reports that violent crime by young blacks has plunged 60 percent.

In 1995, the FBI reports, 9,074 blacks were arrested for homicide. In 2012, the number was 4,203 — a decline of 54 percent. But conservatives don't labor endlessly to publicize that trend.

Nor do they often mention what USA Today reports: "Nearly two times a week in the United States, a white police officer killed a black person during a seven-year period ending in 2012, according to the most recent accounts of justifiable homicide reported to the FBI."

www.chicagotribune.com...

Why do black neighborhoods exist in America? They exist because of institutionalized racism has been the standard operating procedure dating back to at least the end of the civil war. Yes progress has been made in the last few decades but until these mostly black communities have been integrated into the rest of America there will be the grinding poverty crime and despair compacted into small areas.

Do you live in a mostly black area? If no then how can you judge when you have no clue how they live? The nazies rounded up the Jews in Warsaw into confined ghettos, before they were systematically wiped out by the nazies they had many of the same issues faced by the black community hopelessness, high crime, its inevitable, if you did the same thing to any race you have the same exact outcome.

I live in the hood, I have lived in both white areas and high minority areas, the only difference in the hood is the higher concentration of a particular race. Black neighborhoods should not exist when they only make up 15% of the population, but they exist because of design. Get rid of this statue quo and the majority of the issues we face would naturally correct its self.

The problem is deeper than just police brutality, or community violence. The whole community environment is different where most blacks live. Broken families, gangs, drugs and crime, lack of education and jobs… hella environment overall to grow up in, let alone rise above and overcome.

People may not be that strong.

a reply to: kellyjay

BLM has released a list of goals, and most of them have been verbally acknowledged and agreed with by many of the pres candidates.

Ending "broken windows" policing, which aggressively polices minor crimes in an attempt to stop larger ones
using community oversight for misconduct rather than having police decide what consequences officers face
making standards for reporting police use of deadly force
independently investigating and prosecuting police misconduct
having the racial makeup of police departments reflect the communities they serve
requiring officers to wear body cameras
providing more training for police officers
ending for-profit policing practices
ending the police use of military equipment
implementing police union contracts that hold officers accountable for misconduct
"Campaign Zero was informed by the demands of protestors nationwide, research and input from many folks," tweeted DeRay Mckesson, an organiser with the Black Lives Matter movement.
The protest movement has continued to gain strength over the past year after several controversial police-involved deaths of black people including those of Eric Garner, Freddie Gray and Sandra Bland.
In recent weeks, Black Lives Matters protesters have interrupted campaign events of several presidential candidates, calling for more focus on racial and criminal justice issues among the hopefuls.
On the plan's website, scorecards for the 2016 US presidential candidates, including Martin O'Malley, Bernie Sanders, Hillary Clinton, Rand Paul, Jeb Bush and Donald Trump, encourage people to track candidates' proposed agendas to fight police aggression according to the group's 10 action points.

I agree with every one of them. They could use some better leadership, but i feel that will come in time.

You say you don't agree with the movements name? What would you prefer it to be? I think it is a good enough name. It seems to bring out the folks who don't agree that black lives matter. Black lives matter too?

The problem starts in neighborhoods that don't have jobs. When businesses move out of the country it leaves the area with no mode of creating income. Which leads to theft and crime, which leads to violence and police presence. Lack of funding for schools and social programs. When the adults are left fighting for scraps or so depressed about their lack of social mobility, they turn to drugs, which brings more police.

We have to bring more jobs back to the areas where these problems are the worst. You can't expect people to pick themselves up by their bootstraps when they can't afford boots.

To say that you disagree with the BLM group, and also point out the disparaging fact that blacks are more likely to be killed by cops than other races is quite plainly saying to them that black lives do not actually matter. That is what they are going to hear. Which makes them more likely to not trust anyone else. These people need jobs and equal education for their children. The longer this subjugation goes on, the more likely they will lose hope and lash out on their apparent oppressors.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: kellyjay

I'm confused why you think the existence of a completely different problem within the black community suddenly makes another problem irrelevant. Can't we just acknowledge that BOTH police violence and blacks killing other blacks are problems that the black community faces? Or are we only allowed to acknowledge one at a time?

A "completely different problem"?

How is it "completely different" exactly?

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: supermarket2012

But blacks are three times more likely to be killed by a cop than whites - which is amazing when you consider that there are five times more whites then there are blacks. THAT is the issue that the BLM movement is trying to address.

What do you think would be a better name for a movement that is addressing the fact that blacks are three times more likely to be killed by cops than whites? Maybe "Blacks are three times more likely to be killed by cops than whites"? That isn't a very catchy name for a movement, is it.

You say blacks are three times more likely to be killed by a cop than whites. What you DON'T say, is what exactly CONTRIBUTES to that statistic? Do you think police officers drive around and say "Gee Mike, I haven't killed a BLACK MAN in almost a year! Let's go find us one!"

No. Blacks are more likely to commit violent crimes than whites. There are FAR more black gang members than white gang members. Crime is ALWAYS higher among ethnic minorities, that is just a fact.

Most of these murders are occuring in inner city areas, or in ghettos/hoods. A police officer would have to search for HOURS just to MAYBE find a white person in these areas.


Let me make this more clear:

1. Most of the police murders occur in low income areas. The percentage of white people in these areas is MUCH, MUCH lower than black individuals. So common sense says a BLACK PERSON IS MORE LIKELY TO BE KILLED in these areas than a white person!

2. Low income areas have MUCH, MUCH more crime than high income areas. Therefore, the police are fighting a tougher front in the LOW INCOME AREAS. Common sense says THIS is where the conflicts are most likely to happen.

3. In these low income, black areas, people do not cooperate with police. The police know this, and this makes them even more on guard ,more tense in these areas. Police also know they are likely to be targetted or attacked in these areas, again, leading them to be more aggressive and on guard.



My WHOLE point in this reply is that while the statistic you gave, "Blacks are three times more likely to be murdered than whites by a cop" might be true, you are at fault in ASSUMING that this is because of racism, or wrongdoing on the police's part.

a reply to: kellyjay

BLM is a movement that is specifically about addressing state violence in the form of the institutional racism of the US criminal justice system. This is a Constitutional issue, therefor it needs to be brought to the government and to the people on all levels, local and nationally.

'Black on black violence' while a ripple effect of institutional racism is a separate issue that black communities, despite what is claimed, do try to change. There are countless community organizations across the US that try to deal with gang violence, substance abuse, physical abuse, mental/emotional abuse, poverty, education, mental health issues etc... these are not things that fall into the realm of national policy, taking these issues national makes no sense. Protest is meant to address the state, not criminals.

However, reform of the criminal justice system could go a long way to help alleviate crime and despair within black communities.

BLM doesn't need anyone's approval, they don't need to tailor their movement to what people outside of it think it should be. They are already successful. Police reform and criminal justice reform dominates the national conversation with actual policy proposals/discussions at the government level being made all over the country.

a reply to: Woodcarver

I agree with almost everything on that list, only one problem NONE of it is about blacks or their lives mattering and everything on that list is about fighting police corruption so tell me, WHY IN THE HELL IS IT CALLED BLACK LIVES MATTER!!!!

It has nothing to do with it if that list is their goals.

#fightpolicecorruption, it's all inclusive of every race and creed to come together and fight police corruption.

Black lives matter is self segregating, is confusing since it's only a fraction of what the overall goal is claimed to be according to that list, and it by it's nature spits in the face of police corruption towards anyone not black. What purpose does the emphasis on blacks have when the goal seems to be police corruption itself?

originally posted by: LDragonFire
Why do black neighborhoods exist in America? They exist because of institutionalized racism has been the standard operating procedure dating back to at least the end of the civil war. Yes progress has been made in the last few decades but until these mostly black communities have been integrated into the rest of America there will be the grinding poverty crime and despair compacted into small areas.

Do you live in a mostly black area? If no then how can you judge when you have no clue how they live? The nazies rounded up the Jews in Warsaw into confined ghettos, before they were systematically wiped out by the nazies they had many of the same issues faced by the black community hopelessness, high crime, its inevitable, if you did the same thing to any race you have the same exact outcome.

I live in the hood, I have lived in both white areas and high minority areas, the only difference in the hood is the higher concentration of a particular race. Black neighborhoods should not exist when they only make up 15% of the population, but they exist because of design. Get rid of this statue quo and the majority of the issues we face would naturally correct its self.

First of all, not everyone wants to be lumped in together.

When my father and grandfather grew up in Chicago, every ethnic group had their own neighborhoods, and they ALL liked it this way.

Secondly, here in Atlanta there are MANY, MANY, MANY black neighborhoods that are WELL above the poverty line, some of the neighborhoods even having higher incomes than most middle class areas. They CHOOSE to make them black neighborhoods.

I hope you understand that not EVERYONE wants to have a racially diverse neighborhood. While I personally DO like racially diverse areas, I know many white, black, latinos, and asians who DONT.






Another thing is.....how do you propose you SOLVE the issue you bring up? Is the government supposed to write a check for $200,000 for each african american in the Hood, so they can move out and get a nice house somewhere? What then? How will they afford property tax, utilities, etc? The truth is, our government can't just simply GIVE people new lives.....the people are going to have to work their way out of the ghettos. Is it fair? No. However, life isn't fair.


I agree, the projects, ghettos, hoods, these are NOT positive environments. They breed crime, violence, gangs, rape, murder, drug dealers, and DEATH. However, there is no easy way to move MILLIONS of people out of the projects, and even if you COULD, how would they then take care of themselves?

The truth is, 90% of the people in the projects (thats a very GENEROUS estimate) are on welfare. They not only can't afford to move, they can't even afford to LIVE. Our government already feeds them, clothes them, and gives them a place to live...ALL ON THE TAX PAYERS DIME. What else exactly do you propose the government do?