70% of North Korea’s Submarines have Left their Bases, Can’t be Located

Honestly, SK seems to be the stupid ones in this. Loud speakers because 2 in their army got hurt from a landmine. And now SK says it won't stop until they apologize.

NK can't afford an information breach into their country politically. NK isn't going to apologize. Far as I know, NK leadership, and perhaps even the population to an extent, have some serious doubts about the new Kim. And with Kim killing his own advisors, has to be a lot at sake for Kim and others in high ranks.

SK is really putting NK in a bad spot. NK isn't going to apologize and make NK or Kim himself look weak.

originally posted by: stormbringer1701
but on my last tour there in 2000; the mission was completely changed to immediate offense. not just try to hold territory but to go take it.

Interesting. I remember hearing that the assumption was still that the job in SK is to stall for time, everyone is still on a suicide mission but the expectation is that air power would halt the NK advance.

originally posted by: pauljs75
They might actually be up to something. Sending out their subs to look for our subs because of how quickly U.S. subs could hit everything with a battery of tomahawks. They're going to have their work cut out though, as old diesels only have a fraction of speed, endurance, and range of nuclear subs. Only thing they could have going is getting into position and sitting and waiting quietly. Other than having a submerged picket in-place looking for other subs, South Korean harbors would be the other thing they could really go after. But even then newer sonars and magnetic anomaly detectors should be able to fish them out, time to turn on some of the things anchored to the ocean floor along with the comm cables or get a bit more pro-active with aircraft based detection.

You could pack them Subs full of nuclear weapons and use them as self propelled Bombs that could take out any enemy Sub, aircraft carrier, Harbor, City...They don't require Surfacing...you could even scuttle them and just wait for your enemy to approach

Are we talking about the same 70% fleet of subs Kim Jong-Un plays with in his bath tub?

a reply to: Talliostro

I agree with this one hundred percent. We only know what they were capable of when they had their part in Vietnam over half a century ago, really - nothing else comes to mind where they exhibited what they were capable of - but then again I am not as big of a history buff as I once was. Times have changed, military innovations have changed. However, I don't know if it's better to overestimate or underestimate the power behind their punch.

a reply to: Rocker2013

Yes, you guys down south may have the bigger toys, but you have to remember that it's not always the size of the dog in the fight...

a reply to: awareness10

1. I find your referring to Kim Jong Un as "Kimchi" slightly racist.
2. This is obviously going to have a global impact, considering South Korea has many foreign relations with several large countries what with trade agreements etc. The United States has a military bi-lateral alliance with South Korea, and they are also very large economic partners. Not to mention SK is part of the United Nations.

Aka... No one likes NK. Therefore, if SK is getting bullied, someone's going to step in.

a reply to: ghaleon12

Ok, once again.

If NK nukes us, or any part of our territories or our allies, 20 minutes or so later, NK will cease to exist. They know this, we know this, they know we know this. So unless Kim is contemplating suicide for his nation, we dont have much to worry about.

Regarding the subs, they probably would run out of diesel before getting close enough to hit us.

originally posted by: Vasa Croe
I think you are talking about the steel plant that was near the airport, but what does Japan have to do with this?

I'll give you a possible scenario imho.
Premise is that China is playing the dumb card, from one side supporting NK as a tool for Korean reunification NOT under SK as suggested, but under a modern chinese style (think of Shangai), and from another side moving their tanks on the NK border to remove Kim once this re-unification has happened. Then China would have more weight when dealing with Japan for the contested islands.

Obviously this is not a China vs NK or China vs Japan, it's clearly a China vs US since both SK and Japan have doubtfully any power to take indepent actions without US support and consent. So these series of events could be sabotages, conceiled by both sides to remind each other that the war has started, but not on the military side otherwise we would have WWIII.
And since next year we have both US presidential elections and China's currency might be accepted as reserve currency for the IMF (to be decided this october iirc) there is no way that they would risk to go nuclear, unless things escalates badly.

Both powers are not yet ready to open a warfront, China is being hit by a harsh economic crisis and the US imho is still looking to weaken the dragon and the bear. Iran deal and the war in Yemen are an example and I bet we will soon see news from Khazakstan, Turkmenistan, and a few other central asian countries around caspian sea.

What will be the trigger I don't know, there are many open fronts given the current economic conditions of the entire world, in the ME, in central Asia, in the Persian Gulf, in eastern Europe and in the far east. It could be a false flag or a stupid move or even a desperate move from either side.

originally posted by: ghaleon12
Honestly, SK seems to be the stupid ones in this. Loud speakers because 2 in their army got hurt from a landmine. And now SK says it won't stop until they apologize.

NK can't afford an information breach into their country politically. NK isn't going to apologize. Far as I know, NK leadership, and perhaps even the population to an extent, have some serious doubts about the new Kim. And with Kim killing his own advisors, has to be a lot at sake for Kim and others in high ranks.

SK is really putting NK in a bad spot. NK isn't going to apologize and make NK or Kim himself look weak.

From CNN:

[South Korea will get the apology it demanded over recent military escalation by the North, and the South will stop broadcasting propaganda that infuriated the North.

North Korea says it "regrets" that South Korean soldiers were injured by landmines and lifts its "semi-state of war" under an agreement by the two countries, the Yonhap News Agency reported. South Korea will stop its propaganda broadcasts over the border on Tuesday, Kim said.]

So.. wrong on both counts? SK is not being "stupid." They have had to put up with endless years of ridiculous broadcasts over the board by NK. So now that they have a leader that stand her ground, they are being stupid? They shows NK how ridiculous it is.. hopefully neither will do it again.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: Rocker2013

Most of them aren't that old, and are designed to operate in shallow water. That's going to make it a nightmare to find them.

I have no doubt we may lose a few merchant vessels in the first day or two, but there will be hell to pay.

Subs are great as long as they have a home base to call into. I predict if NK moves against NATO, Kim will lose his air force in less than a week and his Navy in less than three weeks. Remember the Falklans , and the UK. didn't even have a decent attack carrier. South Korea and the U.S. will have little trouble unless China or Russa step in. A few primitive nucs and a brown water navy do not make a super power.

This latest obligatory round of North-South Korean bluster is over, with agreements penned and everyone having kissed and made up.

This is how they work in this part of the world and we should all expect and accept it to continue for the duration of our lifetimes. Only a world war or internally orchestrated putsch could extricate the Kim dynasty, as the people are far too subjugated and the nation has far too little to offer the world in terms of a bargaining chips, beyond shallow threats. Both scenarios which are astronomically unlikely.

Case closed.

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: stormbringer1701
but on my last tour there in 2000; the mission was completely changed to immediate offense. not just try to hold territory but to go take it.

Interesting. I remember hearing that the assumption was still that the job in SK is to stall for time, everyone is still on a suicide mission but the expectation is that air power would halt the NK advance.

Not in the OPLAN i was briefed on.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: bkfd54

So what. Have you ever bothered to study ASW? Diesel submarines are almost impossible to find even in the open ocean. In littoral conditions like these are designed to operate in, there's almost no chance in hell.

As for them being shadowed, you have to have boats in the area first, then you have to find them. The US Navy spent three years playing with a new diesel sub they leased from a friendly nation, and the few times they found it, was because they got lucky.

I think that incident also involved the Navy putting some equipment on that sub to mask it's own signals, but is still conjecture.

Back when, in exercises with US diesels, we did not have much trouble finding them. (The venerable FM-10), however agree that today, they are much quieter, way less cavitation and the shallow water operation does have severe detection limitations, even with broadband.

originally posted by: MuldersGirl

I agree with this one hundred percent. We only know what they were capable of when they had their part in Vietnam over half a century ago, really - nothing else comes to mind where they exhibited what they were capable of - but then again I am not as big of a history buff as I once was. Times have changed, military innovations have changed. However, I don't know if it's better to overestimate or underestimate the power behind their punch.

One thing to remember is the US has had 15 years of battle tested gear. As example look how the Humvee has evolved into the MRAP. That is just one example of 100s. Our tactics have also been refined to extreme capabilities. The rest of the world is still working on the "what ifs", I think it will work and looks like a good idea...technology.

NK had their best window in the late 90s...too late now...

a reply to: Ancient Champion

Radar can't find them?
Then they are not "submarines," they are Vailxis.
Try looking UP.

a reply to: openminded2011

Regarding the subs, they probably would run out of diesel before getting close enough to hit us.

Ha ha , you dont know how close you are . Are their fuel capacities that low or can they not fill them up . Below from CNN .

Deployment of as much as one-third of the coastal surface vessel and submarine fleet.
As of Monday, some of those ships were headed back into port for resupply, one U.S. official said, because the North Korean navy is not able to resupply while ships are at sea.

www.cnn.com...

Is nobody going to note that the source for this is a blog that cites another blog that cites...wait for it...another blog?

By all means, let's take the "Young Cons" at their word.

*eye roll*

a reply to: MuldersGirl

Reply:

1. I don't care if you find my statement Racist against the insane Kim Jong Un. If you don't like that go jump in the lake.
2. Yes as everything war mongers do inmpacts the world, this is but one of hundreds of thousands of wars globally and i think the people of this planet are fed up and don't give a flying F**K anymore and would rather it blow up than watch these filth induced criminals kill innocent people. Would you rather watch people endure this or wish it would end?

Yes someone needs to step in but you see, the world is run right now by narcissistic mental patients and everyone just smiles and claps to their every whim. It's beyond disgusting and inhumane. If you don't like how i responded according to my freedom to speak my mind, i'm not sorry, nor should anyone for speaking their mind.

End.

a reply to: Xtrozero

Fair enough.