70% of North Korea’s Submarines have Left their Bases, Can’t be Located

hmmm you are all going on about how crap the nk subs are and that they are all running on laggy bands and that they are only fit for one man or women but the one thing you are all missing is that it only need one nuk to go of in a good place and then possibly war will start so lets all hope that nothing comes of them vanishing like this ........... i mean how far can you get on a Alastiband .......................

originally posted by: stormbringer1701

originally posted by: johnwick



That would only be possible if both the US and SK did absolutely nothing about it while shells rained from the sky.
Of course, that's laughable.

The reality is that the moment NK fires anything at them the US and SK will pound every NK position capable of hitting any SK target.

NK might have plenty aimed at SK, but most of that would miss, and most of those positions would be destroyed within minutes of firing anything.

My peacetime mission was to locate all hardened NK firing positions well enough to lob a copperhead down the front while the blast doors are open when they registered thier guns or practice fired. we know where they live. but since then tech has gotten even better. plus the ROKA has equipment and training parity with the US now. That is a part of the reason the plan changed from task force smith II (retreat and hold a beach head for reinforcements from Hi, japan alaska and the east coast mountain boys) to the 72 hour curb-stomp everything that needs curb-stomping in NK on the way to the northern border.

The ROKA has all of our latest stuff, not just the hand me downs or export versions. They are very tough and extremely disciplined even without it. They are trained to our standards and beyond. Thier readiness is why a lot of the US forces were able to be relocated to southern locations about a decade ago.

As i said there are things the north must do if they really are going to launch a war. things they cannot hide or disguise. these become evident 7 to nine days before the commencement of hostile fire in a full war secenario. i am not talking about a field commander lobbing a few rounds at a guard tower, or commandos planting a mine, axe murdering a detail in the dmz or even a minisub raid on seoul but a full blown KW II. that has an unmistakeable tell. and when we see that tell we are not waiting for them to fire the first round. not any more. within one hour of the decision all units will have full UBL and be in their starting positions. shortly after that the combined forces will roll over the DMZ with no take backs apologies or hand wringing and they will not stop curbstomping that until they are all but mooning the Chinese on the northern border.

BTW, why was that not the plan the entire time?

We're they hoping to resolve the Korea question in peace?

As an artillery man, I fully get the plan, we don't do nice, is either on or it's not. If it is on...... Sry about them.

originally posted by: 2wheelvet
There are some stories out there about hovercrafts being photoshopped by the north, but we also have intelligence that the hovercraft have actually moved. So believe what you will.

I remember seeing the images from a couple of years back and they were clearly and obviously photoshopped as you say. Several of the craft were basically copy/paste, but this was probably just to create a more impressive image of more of those craft in use at that one moment.

There's no real reason why they wouldn't be usable, its not difficult to design and build one for the purpose they need. Whether they work as intended and without problems on the coast of Korea under combat conditions is an entirely different matter though.

I have to wonder at what point we actually say that enough is enough too. At what point does SK and the US stop this with their own military action? There's only so long an enemy can build up their capabilities before action has to be taken to stop them.

Will we wait for something to cross a geographical line? Do we need to wait until NK actually makes an incursion into SK territory before we do anything about it?

I personally think this is a mistake, and I hope that the military movement of China toward the NK border is a sign that we already have an agreement from China that they will stay out of this.

I hope China is only making this move to secure its own border in anticipation of war, rather than sending assets to back up NK. I personally think it's the former, given that China has other problems and its relationship with NK has become more of a liability than a benefit in recent years.

I said it before and I'll say it again: years of refusing to take NK seriously has led to it becoming the most dangerous Nuclear power in the world when it comes to unpredictability and irrationality. I truly believe that we have wasted a lot of time trying to be sensible with a nation which cannot be reasoned with. We need to take it down while we have the opportunity, or risk a greater catastrophe in the future.

It's going to be messy, no doubt about that, but doing nothing and allowing this constant game of threats/aid to carry on is just giving them more time to secure a delivery system from the likes of Russia.

originally posted by: tempestking
hmmm you are all going on about how crap the nk subs are and that they are all running on laggy bands and that they are only fit for one man or women but the one thing you are all missing is that it only need one nuk to go of in a good place and then possibly war will start so lets all hope that nothing comes of them vanishing like this ........... i mean how far can you get on a Alastiband .......................

NK nukes are not the same as other nukes.
While it "theoretically" is a nuclear armed nation, the yield of its weapons is believed to be much smaller than even the most early US/Soviet tests, and they don't yet have a delivery system as far as we know.

NK does not have the capability to launch nuclear weapons at anyone from any sub.

If NK wanted to nuke anything, it would have to either send something by bomber (still unlikely they have the capability to do that) or drive a truck into SK, both would be taken out before they crossed the DMZ.

I love the DRAMA here. It totally rhyles people up to the brink of orgasmic chaos. Nothing will happen. Nothing! I'm sorry i ruined your lives for not agreeing with you.

good night.

originally posted by: awareness10
I love the DRAMA here. It totally rhyles people up to the brink of orgasmic chaos. Nothing will happen. Nothing! I'm sorry i ruined your lives for not agreeing with you.

good night.

Just one fact for you: This is the first time since the end of the Korean war that this level of military movement has been seen in NK.

You can claim this is the same old story all you like, and normally I would be one of the first to say it's all BS when Kim goes off on one of his rants about "destroying the South in an unimaginable blast of righteous fury!" but this is, actually, really, different this time.

Sorry to kick your high horse in the knees.

originally posted by: johnwick

BTW, why was that not the plan the entire time?

We're they hoping to resolve the Korea question in peace?

As an artillery man, I fully get the plan, we don't do nice, is either on or it's not. If it is on...... Sry about them.

actually not so much. basically in the eighties and before the plan was that the 2ID would go to the initial fighting positions and fight until they were unable to fight anymore as in until out of ammo equipment destroyed and overrun and dead. this was so the eighth could retreat and hopefully secure the very southern end of the peninsula around pusan for the eventual arrival of fresh divisions from Alaska, Hawaii ft bliss and new york. essentially most of the 70 thousand or so soldiers originally there would be dead. then the replacement troops would begin driving the north back across the DMZ if they could. to be in the 2ID was basically a die in place mission. Eighth Army's mission wasn't much better. Basically without the being under-manned untrained and unsupplied part this was the Task Force Smith scenario part Deux. Same basic scenario only not because of a hollowed out Army -simply the mathematics of attrition and initial conditions.

but on my last tour there in 2000; the mission was completely changed to immediate offense. not just try to hold territory but to go take it.

and several years after i left I heard that they moved most of the US forces south away from their old bases at or near the DMZ to seoul or even south of seoul. the ROKA was judged to be able to handle it with or without american forces there. The remaining forces are there as more of a deterrant and insurance policy.


EDIT: That does not mean that they will not be fighting if the north invades. They most certainly will. and what i have said is not to be construed to mean it would be a cake walk. it would be terrible. but the north would lose and lose quickly and badly. that is not to say the north would not land tens of thousands of artillery shells and rockets on inhabited areas or break northern dams so as to flood the south or release chemicals on their territory if the wind was right so it floats over the south or that their thousands of sleeper agents would not kill indescrimnently behind our lines. Those things they plan on doing. i just mean they would be destroyed fast hard and final and there would be one less nuclear powered dictator kook to worry about.

I wonder if the "great leader" of NK even knows he has large number of subs missing. Isn't most of there subs small Sang-O-Class subs with a limited range of 1,500 miles. That's like a one way trip to Taiwan for them.

originally posted by: 2wheelvet
For those laughing about the hovercraft stuff, claiming North Korea couldn't possibly have such a thing. They are not as 'stone age' as many think. There are some stories out there about hovercrafts being photoshopped by the north, but we also have intelligence that the hovercraft have actually moved. So believe what you will.

The VSV is much faster than air-cushion vehicles deployed by North Korea, which can move at speeds of up to 96 km/h. The communist state has deployed about 70 air-cushion vehicles on its west coast and 60 of the amphibious vehicles in the east at its four hovercraft bases, according to a report by the South Korean Joint Chiefs of Staff. "North Korea has been constructing the very slender vessel since last year to enhance its commandos' maritime infiltration capability," the source said, asking for anonymity. "This is believed to be ready for deployment." The ship was first spotted in satellite imagery last year when Pyongyang conducted its first test run in the East Sea, the source said.

Korea Herald

Im not laughing at the 1970's technology of the Hovercraft and well aware of the LCAC the Marines use, but Amphibious warfare, similar to Airborne warfare from Paratroopers in inherently difficult hence at least in the UK, the Royal Marine Commandos and the Parachute Regiment are tip of the spear troops probably as good as most SF units.

But IMO would be fcuk all use against Russia, NK, China....yes Falklands or the Ivory Coast or some African/Middle East sh1th0le unless there was a few weaknesses in their Air Defence and Coastal Defence which could be exploited to set up a massive FOB with logistics support ( I think only the US could do this scale logistics )3.

Unfortunately to NK - the South (nor any other nation for that matter) have the size of land mass that a US strategic bomber couldnt smack the crap out of an Amphibious Assault, be it either from the US/Carrier/insert US airbase here and this is proven technology not US c0cksucking here, the minute a Hovercraft full of Marines launches to invade SK, a Stealth Aircraft will be bombing the crap out of them.

So within reach of many SK fighter bombers and US bombers, an over the horizon maritime attack via hovercraft is useless and a paratroops drop would be smashed by patriots before it crossed the DMZ.

So the only real way NK can attack is through the DMZ and as pointed out the build up would be noticed and wiped out so why on Earth did they develop Hovercraft for the military?

I appreciate your helping me understand why a hovercraft is of use in a NK/SK war fest..

originally posted by: Rocker2013

Just one fact for you: This is the first time since the end of the Korean war that this level of military movement has been seen in NK.

I don't think this part is true. The North does crap like this all the time. they launched several mini-subs with special forces in them, penetrated the south; and the special forces and sleeper agents embedded in the south's civilian population went on an indiscriminate killing spree. they shell gaurd posts at the border at the pan mujom peace village. they axe murder unarmed brush clearing details in the dmz. they move troops and supplies because they know we watch thier logistics to see if we go to alert status. They sink or capture civilian and military ships. all sorts of crazy stuff.

true story: both the north and the south go across the DMZ and steal each other's (enemy units') flags as part of rites of passage for thier respective special forces and even regular troops.

It would be laughable if those subs turned into refugee subs all defecting to the west .. I would love to see the Kim yung Un-happy face...

Doesn't the US have microphones through all the oceans? I believe that's how they always knew where the Russian subs were/are. Therefore, I'm sure they know exactly where each sub is.

Plus, NK subs are short range and basically stay around the Korean peninsula. Very little for the rest of the world to worry about.

a reply to: Rocker2013

Im sorry but...i just don't believe anything is going to come of of this. Sorry..Is Kimchi Nut's YES.. Is Kimchi likely to toss a nuke at South Korea, Yes. Is this likely to have a global impact ? NO.

There you go, goodbye and have a nice day.

originally posted by: stormbringer1701
I don't think this part is true. The North does crap like this all the time. they launched several mini-subs with special forces in them, penetrated the south; and the special forces and sleeper agents embedded in the south's civilian population went on an indiscriminate killing spree. they shell gaurd posts at the border at the pan mujom peace village. they axe murder unarmed brush clearing details in the dmz. they move troops and supplies because they know we watch thier logistics to see if we go to alert status. They sink or capture civilian and military ships. all sorts of crazy stuff.

true story: both the north and the south go across the DMZ and steal each other's (enemy units') flags as part of rites of passage for thier respective special forces and even regular troops.

There have been various incidents between the two sides over the decades, absolutely that is true, but we're talking about a mass deployment of military after a statement of intent.

Each individual incident can be taken as it is, an individual incident.

However, this is absolutely the largest and most significant military deployment the North Korean regime has ever taken in response to the South since the end of the Korean war. The North has never put it's military on combat-readiness, while massing artillery along the border, while launching subs, while deploying invasion craft...

When you then also consider that South Korea has made a clear determination that any attack will be met with disproportionate response, and when you also consider that China has been moving considerable military assets to the border with NK, this is absolutely the most extreme this situation on the peninsula has been since the end of the war.

originally posted by: awareness10
a reply to: Rocker2013

Im sorry but...i just don't believe anything is going to come of of this. Sorry..Is Kimchi Nut's YES.. Is Kimchi likely to toss a nuke at South Korea, Yes. Is this likely to have a global impact ? NO.

There you go, goodbye and have a nice day.

You think a nuclear weapon being detonated is not an important event for the rest of the world?

If NK fired any weapon at Seoul it would be a global event, let alone using a nuke.

You clearly don't understand global politics.

SK news is reporting that the US has deployed a KC-135.

Known as the "Flying gas station" this is to allow fighters to stay in operation for hours.

What does this mean?
I was considering that this might be more symbolic than practical application, but then I note that SK has already deployed nuclear-capable subs and bombers, and the US already has a lot there to utilize.

Could this indicate that the US is considering what would be needed to defend the border, or considering what would be needed for raids into NK?

a reply to: Rocker2013

I think you're reading too much into this , NK has a history of creating tension and stamping its feet when it's not being paid attention , Kim Jong Un is following the traditions of his father and flexing his military muscles to show his people he is a strong leader.

List of border incidents involving North Korea.
en.wikipedia.org...

Nobody wants a war so talks will continue and eventually we will end up back at square one , if I'm wrong then that's really bad news for all of us.

originally posted by: Rocker2013
If NK wanted to nuke anything, it would have to either send something by bomber (still unlikely they have the capability to do that) or drive a truck into SK, both would be taken out before they crossed the DMZ.

or you know.. take one small sub from 75 along the coastline to seoul with an indoctrinated crew...

originally posted by: yulka
a reply to: Ancient Champion

i do believe we have a new hitler!

More like a new Custer.

originally posted by: Mousygretchen
a reply to: johnwick
Lol... I'm speechless. This is not my fortay but it's awesome to learn about it.

Don't ask unlessyou want pages, once I get started.... I am very passionate about only a couple things.

Big guns women and booze.

I can and likely will go on all day about any of the 3

Oh and BBQ as well!