Tianjin was an act of sabotage and major escalation

a reply to: mungbean
So, it's an invisble weapon that travels at incredible speeds which "magically" hits a chemical depot that was already on fire causing that depot to explode.

or

A chemical depot starts for whatever reason (accident or sabotage) to burn and the firemen use the wrong stuff to contain the fire and causing the depot to explode.

I always choose the latter story and I don't get the reference to 9/11, don't derail the topic at hand.

a reply to: Talliostro

never said it was invisible and never said it was magic. Stop putting words in my mouth. I said it is highly likely that at that speed with the preceding fires and explosion and smoke that it is quite plausible it could not have been caught on the amateur phone footage available.

The current math from physicists is that the blast was well over 5 kilotones and that is a conservative estimate. Look at the crater.

You do not get the 911 reference ? really ? OK then if you can't see the parallels i used there in my reply to the previous comment well I can't help you... lol . I was not derailing the topic - I started the thread for g'sake. well I don't know how any logic I use in any other supporting arguments would be worth my time explaining to you if you can't grasp that reference.

I give up... I will add any more new and relevant information as it transpires but I am done repeating myself to people that have not fully investigated this from all angles and have no real understanding of chemistry or physics. At least you are willing to entertain the idea of sabotage. Meh... I give up

People should not be entitled to an opinion unless it is an informed opinion - because an uninformed opinion is what we call an ignorant opinion.

www.academia.edu... or_Full-Spectrum_Military_Interoperability

This article way explain some things for you ( if you have the inclination and the intellect to examine it )

originally posted by: mungbean

You have obviously not read the thread in full, let alone the OP. then you may reallise why it was a very worthwhile target. On top of my presumption that you did not read the OP or info and facts within this thread I would summise you do not know much of history or current geopolitics or the economy ( sorry if my assumptions are unfounded )

The Chinese government has put in place unprecedented secrecy surrounding the mysterious explosion, and aggressive police state tactics are now being invoked to control the flow of information surrounding this event.


It seems the more educated people are with chemistry physics and ballistics married with a knowledge of history and the current geopolitical moves make it the more obvious it is this was attack/sabotage.

If you have even HALF a brain and spend just an hour or two investigating I am pretty sure your views will change

Brilliant. You are the one making some HUGE assumptions (and extremely dodgy sources) and yet you say i don't understand and haven't read?

If you do some actual proper research, you will see that the Chinese Government are trying to get answers and pushing the investigation and it is the local officials that are holding things up - most likely because it is they who grant licenses for storage permits, etc so they are trying to cover their tracks.

As to the current state of the Chinese economy, i will turn it round on you - do you actually understand economics? There is a reason i ask that - The Chinese economy is contracting at the moment from its vastly over inflated previous position. However, it is still a growing economy, just not at the breakneck speeds that it was previously. For perspective, it still outstrips growth in the West (including the USA).

I love the fact that you are also completely ignoring the fact that the facility was licensed to store 20 Tonnes of Sodium Cyanide and actually had closer to 700 Tonnes. Is this because it puts a huge hole in your theory?

www.washingtonpost... .com/opinions/chinas-currency-bet/2015/08/13/697e5a7c-41e1-11e5-8e7d-9c033e6745d8_story.html this article may shed somelight on the current state of the chinese economy for you

I am not ignoring that fact - not at all... I have just examined it and dismissed it on the information at hand. and if you take the time to research the second explosion that measured 2.9 on the richter- it was hundreds of metres away from the chemical storage warehouse. And the simple fact is that explosion was a minimum 5kt blast - and that crater could not have been formed from an above ground chem explosion. I mean there have been over 200 nuclear and chemical weapons experts there studying the incident and the Chinese government still has no official explanation for how it happened and what caused it let alone the unprecedented censorship which is quite evident with a little bit of reading

I really do not want to waste more time arguing with you as either you are not up to speed and informed on the facts or are not capable of critical thought processes. More than happy to debate with anyone who has obviously thouroghly researched all the info available however !

Think about it there are many ways to make strikes invisible, even stuff like quantum stealth. Not saying thats what happened but an invisible bunker buster type of laser strike with a yield similar to a nuclear attack is possible, unlikely but very possible.

a reply to: mungbean

The reason there are NCB personnel there is because of what was caused at the site. This is standard protocol for incidents at such facilities. 200 may seem an awful lot but that is simply down to numbers - there are more of everything in China than there are elsewhere.

The size of the blast was exacerbated by using water to put out fires, rather than foams. Although this is actually unfair to the Chinese firefighters as they used what was appropriate based on what was supposed to be stored at the facility.

As to seperate explosions, it is a chemical storage facility. Different chemical compounds have differing combustion points. According to eyewitnesses, there were subsequently several small explosions, even several days after the initial incident. Again, this is what would be expected given the circumstances.

Be quite sure about thing though - if China does suspect someone else is involved (whether rogue nation or rogue individual acting on behalf of rogue nation) it will present its evidence when it has some to present. If they suspect international aggression, they will raise it in the UN and seek action. I am prepared to wager you that this will not happen because no such evidence will be there and instead they will discover it was an accident.

Interesting OP and extra info.
Could well be something in this direction.

It is not always easy posting a thread on this forum but you seem to do quite well so far.
Dont let the mass put you down.
You do not have to and can not argue with all members here

originally posted by: jaamaan
Interesting OP and extra info.
Could well be something in this direction.

It is not always easy posting a thread on this forum but you seem to do quite well so far.
Dont let the mass put you down.
You do not have to and can not argue with all members here

Thanks Jaamaan. I have been a long time lurker and was kind of expecting the flak I would receive.
I appreciate your encouragement.

I'm not one for arguments ! I prefer rational discussions that involve logic and reasoning. It seems there are many very intelligent people on this forum and I think most are able to look past the dogma and personal attacks and make up their own minds.

I will be back with a slightly more comprehensive rundown of the situation and unfolding information soon. ( edit ) can anyone tell me why this was moved to skunk works ? so I know to post in the right sub forum next time ?

For a yield of 50 kt – the estimated maximum yield of the B61-12, the apparent crater radii vary from 30 meters (hard dry rock) to 68 meters (wet soil). Therefore an improvement in accuracy from 100-plus meter CEP (the current estimated accuracy of the B61) down to 30-plus meter CEP (assuming INS guidance for the B61-12) improves the kill probability against these targets significantly by achieving a greater likelihood of cratering the target during a bombing run. Put simply, the increased accuracy essentially puts the CEP inside the crater (see illustration below).

fas.org...

So an earth penetrating state of the art B61-12 NUCLEAR earth penetrating bomb can not even get close to producing the crater at the epicentre of the second blast !
30 metre radii for hard bedrock and only 68 metres in wet soil ( which this most definitely was not ) And that is a 50 kt yield... designed to penetrate and cant cause close to half the crater we see ! The official statement is that it was less than a 25 tonne blast of TNT ( which measured 2.9 on the richter ) Come on people... seriously !
Yet people believe it was a surface chemical explosion. Which just so happened to be a couple of hundred yards away from the chem storage warehouse ?
Really? What happened to critical thinking ?

Interesting discussion on the event ( i highly recommend putting in the time to watch )

So we are here discussing the Tianjin. I posted last night about www.abovetopsecret.com...
So my theory is that they were not attacked by another country. They were more likely trying to destroy or hide the evidence and to wipe something from the face of the earth that is dangerous and there is only one way. And that is fire and explosion. Explosions are bad most of the time if you are dealing with the subject that could cause problems when being blown up and the vapors going airborne. This was done by the Chinese people army. Why? They have enough firefighters in the area that could go there after the whole thing blew up...but in the days after the explosions there were more army personnel and heavy equipment, helicopters etc. than firefighters. So either what blew up was something that belonged to the PLA or something that had to be destroyed by the PLA. Accidents like that do not happen. They are not stupid, no one is. Too many safety mechanisms. Do not underestimate any nation on any person. Sooner or later it will backfire.

originally posted by: CarlOrff
So we are here discussing the Tianjin. I posted last night about www.abovetopsecret.com...
So my theory is that they were not attacked by another country. They were more likely trying to destroy or hide the evidence and to wipe something from the face of the earth that is dangerous and there is only one way. And that is fire and explosion. Explosions are bad most of the time if you are dealing with the subject that could cause problems when being blown up and the vapors going airborne. This was done by the Chinese people army. Why? They have enough firefighters in the area that could go there after the whole thing blew up...but in the days after the explosions there were more army personnel and heavy equipment, helicopters etc. than firefighters. So either what blew up was something that belonged to the PLA or something that had to be destroyed by the PLA. Accidents like that do not happen. They are not stupid, no one is. Too many safety mechanisms. Do not underestimate any nation on any person. Sooner or later it will backfire.

This theory makes no sense to me at all ? Could you elaborate on possible scenarios you have in mind ? I am really struggling to follow the logic ??? Are you serious or having a laugh. Self inflicted maybe for insurance purposes ( which is a theory that does not make very much sense ) Or a false flag perhaps - but that would be followed by direct accusations and retaliation.
A

a reply to: mungbean

It was either an accident or an accident that could not be controlled and had to be destroyed. As I hinted a weapon or perhaps avisitor. What kind of a weapon, use your imagination. But the one that could not be controlled and had to be destroyed. They have an agreement with the west to destroy the evidence so there will be no or even better there are no accusations. And the whole area looks more like a war zone than anything else. Take into the account knocked down bridges and highway and that was done by magnitude 2.9 earthquake. Since when is 2.9 earthquake knocking down concrete buildings? I know a shock wave... blasts windows, or if the magnitude is higher it will knock down buildings but .. and here we have concrete structures destroyed. By the strength of 3 tons of TNT. Yeah right.

a reply to: CarlOrff

Have you read through this thread and the various scenarios and evidence and theories presented ? it might be a good idea

An 'interesting' theory... The chinese have a secret weapon (or visitor ? ) that the west is privy too that needs to be destroyed ? I do not know where in the hell you got a 3 tonne blast equivalent or an earthquake ? ( the second blast was 2.9 but this has nothing to do with what we call an earth quake )

I do not laugh off anybodies thoughts and theories because when it comes down to it almost anything is possible and everybody has a right to express their thoughts ( even if they are very uninformed ) however I must say that theory sounds ridiculous to me and I think some intensive research into the facts coupled with a little critical thinking may be of assistance to you. No offense intended Carloff

I still feel this is a major industrial accident, but one that could of been avoided, or could have been less disastrous overall.

If your looking for a conspiracy, lets ask why the warehouse was allowed to be operating within un-safe conditions and violations.

2 Major Violations that government authorities may have looked the other way on:

1) A warehouse which had known previous citations, may of had more than 10 tons of the one of the particular chemicals on site (what about the other chemicals, how much of those were stored too?)
2) Why the warehouse was allowed to operate within the 1000 meters of private homes and public structures putting everyone in the path at risk.

Sodium cyanide is a toxic chemical that can form a combustible gas upon contact with water, and several hundred tons would be a clear violation of rules cited by state media that the warehouse could store no more than 10 tons at a time.

Local officials have been hard-pressed to explain why authorities permitted hazardous goods warehouses so close to residential complexes and critical infrastructure, clearly in violation of the Chinese rule that hazmat storage should be 1,000 meters (yards) away from homes and public structures.

Did warehouse violate safety rules

leolady

If my theory is correct and this was indeed sabotage. I wonder if it is anyway linked to the current north/south Korea situation. Has china let them off the leash because it looks like it is on !

Another large chem plant explosion.
COincidence surely

Kind of adds weight to my theory does it not ?

There was this huge explosion in july a month before Tianjin as well .... pattern anyone ?


www.theguardian.com...

and now this huge explosion at an American military base in Japan... hmmmmm

www.mirror.co.uk...