Tianjin was an act of sabotage and major escalation

originally posted by: mungbean
after spending hours researching pics and videos and observing the government reactions and statements i find it hard to believe it was an accident.
I have spent hours sifting through pictures, forums, analysis, government reports and statements and my common sense and logic tells me that no doubt this was an attack.
I mean have you seen the crater and the videos ? how much time have you spent looking into this ?
a reply to: nwtrucker

Yet at the same time you admit to knowing very little about military tech.

With a faltering economy, I'm surprised no one has raised the possibility of a false-flag. I mean that's one of the go to answers when it comes to events in America after all.

I personally believe it was in fact an unfortunate accident. Shutting down a major Chinese port just hurts everyone else in some way.

a reply to: Wardaddy454

I study chemistry and physics at university level - even though I am no expert on military tech - I feel I know more than enough science about chemical reactions and combustion of certain materials and the physics involved to be almost positive that the official explanation is way way out of line with the footage of the incident and the damage caused. Look at that crater man ... the initial picture before it "filled with water" That is unprecedented and cannot be explained by an accidental fire and consequent above ground chemical explosions.

However I definitely do not rule out the possibility of a false flag either, although if this is the case I would be expecting China to release their reasons for such and who they are framing for such an attack in very short time. But still this theory means it was sabotage - just self inflicted for geopolitical gains.

a reply to: Wardaddy454

I don't think the goal was to shut down the seaport. I think the goal was to damage or destroy their super computer. If what I read is accurate, it's the same computer that is used in China's space program. Kind of makes me wonder if the latest X-37B mission, that was launched on May 20th of this year, is involved. Perhaps the goal was to shut down the Chinese computer long enough for the X-37B to capture a Chinese satellite for spying or something.

It's a far fetched theory, but not impossible.

originally posted by: mungbean
a reply to: rockpaperhammock

Did you read my OP ? There is a long extensive history of sabotage by world powers usiong covert means during times of intense conflict ? Where have the dynamics of the geopolitical climate changed since then ? please explain... lol

Right what conflict? What war is China in right now besides the disagreement over some islands? I just don't see the value in that target is all.

However lets say it was sabotage...for fun lets hypothesize who did it. Certainly not the USA...why would they risk getting caught in an act of sabotage and risking a war with China when relations with Russia are piss poor at the moment. So if it is sabotage then id wager it had to be done from some resistance group within.

I can't sit here and tell you it is not sabotage...but the target doesn't make sense if it is(unless there is something there we don't know about). And in the same you can't tell me it is sabotage for sure.

Edit: Ok I reread your post...so you are suggesting their is some renegade group who is destroying targets globally through sabotage to cause economic crisis?

a reply to: Maluhia

Yep. Husband is in a position where he sees in from a business and regulatory angle, and China is hardly what the media and the academics make it out to be.

originally posted by: makemap

originally posted by: Maluhia
a reply to: ketsuko

Given the Chinese system, gross incompetence, corruption, and negligence are also not at all beyond the realm of possibility, and Occam's Razor makes them the most likely culprits.

I completely agree. People seem to see the Chinese as a finely orchestrated competitive system when they are so beyond corrupt they make the American congress look angelic. Their economy simply benefitted from the economic environment of cheap goods make money for a while (that never lasts - there's always some other desperate country willing to work cheaper).

The world media, however, played up "Chinese superiority" which is a complete croc.

Now, now. Blaming the Chinese won't do you any good. The only reason why congress don't got full control, just like China is because the people refuse to take orders. Your just lucky America hasn't taken over the world, yet. In America corporations are waiting, government is waiting, gangs are waiting. In China, Officials are waiting, and the government is waiting.

The difference is, US does it secretly. While China does it openly.

My aren't you a ray of sunshine. When they start killing people "for their own good," you'll know we've gotten to that phase. I'm sure you'll be all breathlessly excited about how wonderful, Utopian and efficient your world is about to become then.

I suggest you go study the Denver airport murals and get back to us.

a reply to: mungbean

I think you underestimate the level potential corruption in Chinese bureaucracy. Each one has incentive to skim off the top for himself and cut corners where he can.

As for the crater, all you need is something that directs part of the blast force downward just enough to dig a big hole. As much explosive force as you had involved, it wouldn't have taken much depending on the type of ground we are talking about.

Also, why would anyone who had a hypothetical Thor risk exposing it for something like this? Anything like Thor would be saved for a time of true need. Something you could do conventionally would be done conventionally and not by exposing your hip pocket Ace up your sleeve which would be better suited to taking out deep bunkers and missile sites all of a sudden than it would be to blowing up a port.

And if our intel network is so crappy that we can't field the means to pay for decent sabotage to blow up an industrial site ... then we're sunk. That should be basic stuff.

a reply to: rockpaperhammock The defacto war that is now in full swing between China and America ( and their respective allies )
Did you see 30 percent get wiped off the chinese stock market ? ( that was an act of war ) The chinese dumping American debt and assaulting the illegitimate petrodollar ? ( that is an act of war ) have you seen the rhetoric and statements made in regards to the south china sea and the pivot to asia ? And you ask what conflict ??? Conflict comes in many forms and the all out confrontation you elude to is almost always preceded by such acts of infrastructural sabotage. The art of war would e a good book to open your eyes as to the various forms of warfare that are utilised.

so yoy say certainly not the USA ? perhaps they are trying to goad China into attacking like they did to Japan before Pearl harbor. Their economy is about to implode and the only way to maintain hegemony is a military conflict while they still have the supposed superiority. I truly do not see how you cannot see a motive for attacking this port. I have explained many reasons throughout the thread why it is surely an effective target. I cannot sit here and tell you ANYTHING for sure ! I can tell you 'I' am sure but that is merely my own personal beliefs. I think that it is basic logic as to why it was highly possible at the least. And let me say that without the dynamics of that crater, the censorship going on, the anomalies and inconsistencies, the size and charecteristics of the blast I would probably be in agreeance with you.

So yes I was implying an economic entity - not a renegade group as you put it ( the USA or maybe the world bankers who are being challenged by BRICS and the new banking system ) attacked a very crucial asset in the ongoing war we are seeing unfold. Or ... perhaps but less likely in my eyes it was self inflicted for reasons yet unknown to me. But logic denotes this was not an accident and the official explanation does not fit.

a reply to: EternalSolace

Definitely plausible and if that happened to be the motive it was successful

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: mungbean

I think you underestimate the level potential corruption in Chinese bureaucracy. Each one has incentive to skim off the top for himself and cut corners where he can.

As for the crater, all you need is something that directs part of the blast force downward just enough to dig a big hole. As much explosive force as you had involved, it wouldn't have taken much depending on the type of ground we are talking about.

Also, why would anyone who had a hypothetical Thor risk exposing it for something like this? Anything like Thor would be saved for a time of true need. Something you could do conventionally would be done conventionally and not by exposing your hip pocket Ace up your sleeve which would be better suited to taking out deep bunkers and missile sites all of a sudden than it would be to blowing up a port.

And if our intel network is so crappy that we can't field the means to pay for decent sabotage to blow up an industrial site ... then we're sunk. That should be basic stuff.

The level of corruption is rife in all governments. Wasn't it the USA who stated on the record that over 8 TRILLION dollars went missing from the defense budget and they have no clues. So many other examples of corruption on all sides and this has no real bearing on what has transpired here.
Your explanation of the formation of the crater is way out of whack with reality ! That is a 3 acre 300 foot wide hole and looks to be at least 100 feet deep ! That ground would have been very very solid considering the cargo and machinery ... what ? you think it was quicksand ? lol

I don't think you understand the seriousness of what is happening economically and strategically right now. Why would they want to bring out a weapon like this ? As a show of force and intimidation... cause even being aware of a kinetic orbital bombardment platform does not make it any easier to defend against. You know... if you keep trying to destroy our petrodollar this is what we will do to you !
As for your last statement I am unsure of what your point is ?

a reply to: mungbean

Now the self inflicted thing brings up a whole bunch of new ideas haha...that had crossed my mind as a possible theory but if it was they would have to come out and blame someone. So only time will tell with that.

Colin Powell talked about soft power and its uses often but this is beyond that. If America authorized an attack on China like that it would be insanely stupid. There is an unknown confusing war/conflict already in the Ukraine and the rise of ISIS in the middle east....why would the usa want to draw China into a conflict?

And I agree there is something always going on competitively with BRICS or even the current stray from the petro dollar.

It will be interesting to see what other news comes out on this but I have to disagree with you at the moment on sabotage...respectfully of course.

a reply to: mungbean

Yes, it would go missing. Are you implying it went missing to build Thor? Maybe it did. It might also have gone to build a number of other black projects. Or it might simply have been skimmed and misplaced.

My husband spent a short time as government employee being paid by the army. On three separate occasions they deposited amounts of $65K into his account out of the blue for no reason. Accounting error. Do that often enough and it adds up. They tracked it down and we never spent it, of course, because we knew they would, but you wonder what happens and how often it does and how often they actually track it all down.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: mungbean

Yes, it would go missing. Are you implying it went missing to build Thor? Maybe it did. It might also have gone to build a number of other black projects. Or it might simply have been skimmed and misplaced.

My husband spent a short time as government employee being paid by the army. On three separate occasions they deposited amounts of $65K into his account out of the blue for no reason. Accounting error. Do that often enough and it adds up. They tracked it down and we never spent it, of course, because we knew they would, but you wonder what happens and how often it does and how often they actually track it all down.

No all I am trying to convey is that There is just as much corruption in the USA and my country as there is in China. I am not pro USA or pro China or Russia. Just pro human man and call it how i see it.

a reply to: rockpaperhammock

For sure ! I'm just an average dude trying to connect the dots. I get things wrong quite often. Lets wait for more info and debate some more as new light is shed. My ego is humble enough to admit defeat when faced with compelling evidence

MSDS sheets in China. That's the best laugh I've had all week. From what I've heard, there was a fire in an area containing Calcium Carbide. The firefighters were spraying water to put out the fire. That's a big time NO NO. Water and Calcium Carbide equals Acetylene gas. The Acetylene cooked off causing the other explosions.

a reply to: mungbean
I wondered about that Japanese weather satellite which captured the explosion..
Was it a geostationary satellite,or did it just happen to be in the right area at the time of the blast?
Someting else to wonder about.

a reply to: JIMC5499

yet still in now way explains the crater.

I would love to hear a convincing argument into how such a fire/explosion could do this ? It just is not feasible !!!!!

a reply to: mungbean
I must admit,when I saw this video I thought it was a nuke-especially the last almost unbelievably massive explosion which is preceeded with a blinding white flash,just like a nuke does:
(warning profanity)


And the crater and aftermath does give a pretty accurate impression of a nuke as well.
I don't think it was nuclear though,but the destruction is on a similar scale to a small nuclear bomb.

I doubt we will ever get the full story on this.

a reply to: cavtrooper7

So it does leave a lake, or an impact zone with kinetic energy absorbed by the ground... I remember a story about a cat and toilet paper. Did you do that, said the misses to the cat, cat said no, with paper following its claw.

a reply to: mungbean

Thanks for putting in the work to show everyone the images. Thats how things should be done here. Very revealing, that place got obliterated.

You're welcome for embedding the YouTube. You almost had it. Just capture the 'ID number' (everything after or between the "=" equals signs). You can hit quote on my post to see how I did that or U2U me, click on "send message" in drop down menu contained in little green man at bottom of avatar.

Cool thread.