Confederate flags filmed being stolen, destroyed in new social media challenge

originally posted by: ph0enix
Are you guys nuts? You can't shoot someone for stealing a flag. Your life isn't in danger from that act, that's not only crazy its murder.

It just shows how bloodthirsty and inhumane people are over racism, some people are just looking for an excuse to kill another of thier fellow human beings, be it over a piece of paper or a flag which represents slavery.

This way people can be incited by an extreamly offencive symbol of racism and slavery then when people are incited into violence which is why its there in the first place to provoke people, they think they can kill and get away with it.

However if people shoot someone to death they will be sent to jail for murder.

a reply to: FormOfTheLord

The only people who can be incited by something like a rebel flag are idiots. and their behavior still is their own responsibility.

If someone would have drove up to Fred PHelps while he had one of those awful signs, and given him a good old curb stomp....they would have went to prison. Because free speech is free speech. Anyone dumb enough to forget the old saying "sticks and stones may break my bones, but words can never hurt me" is a mess waiting to happen anyway.

a reply to: FormOfTheLord

You are obviously not well versed of the laws of individual states concerning trespassing and theft.

You do seem well versed in rhetoric and having a completely closed mind on what things are, what they should be and what people should believe (which is: I'm right and if you don't agree, you're a racist.)

History is FULL of people and groups of people that insist that their way is the only way and that it's the right way.

Hitler and the Nazi party felt that way, I'm sure. Stalin, Mao....the list goes on. Encourage behavior that is wrong against a group of people, because it's the "right" thing to do. Drum up the hysteria of people and sway them that certain things and symbols MUST be destroyed!

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Freedom, that is limited, restricted, that muzzles the people, is NOT freedom. It's living by other people's tyrannical rule.
Freedom, to be TRULY free, means allowing everyone to have a right to their say, their thoughts, their beliefs.

Whether you agree with it or not.

Trying to remove all that, control that or get rid of that is NOT freedom.

It's tyranny.

You and others here on ATS have shown quite clearly that you do not actually believe in real freedom. What you believe is that everyone MUST conform to your views, your beliefs, your ideas and must do what you want them to do.

You all have shown that you really do not believe in the first amendment of the Bill of Rights, that instead, people and their beliefs, ideas and freedom of expression must be controlled, or worse: eradicated.

If that is your "utopia", I can certainly do without it.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: FormOfTheLord

The only people who can be incited by something like a rebel flag are idiots. and their behavior still is their own responsibility.

If someone would have drove up to Fred PHelps while he had one of those awful signs, and given him a good old curb stomp....they would have went to prison. Because free speech is free speech. Anyone dumb enough to forget the old saying "sticks and stones may break my bones, but words can never hurt me" is a mess waiting to happen anyway.

Anyone can be incited dont act like you dont understand how the confederate flag represents slavery, enslavement, racism, denial of human rights, and calling other races inferior.

You can be incited with a flag that has something dispicable on it.

Its like a game of look I can say you dont deserve to have human rights and you cant do anything about it, if you do do something I will take your life and be just fine heehaaw.

Wrong if they murder people they deserve to be in prison for life because they are murderous scum.

If someone thretens your life then you have a right to self defence, if someone is offended by the slave flag your hanging out in front of your house and you kill them you dont belong in society you belong in prison, because your a danger to people.

a reply to: FormOfTheLord

You and the law may disagree on that. At least in my state. The Castle Doctrine gives the property owner considerable power in protecting their property. You don't even have to steal the flag. It just needs to be a situation where I could claim that I fear for my life. And living in a rural county that also has 5 prisons and a forensic mental hospital....it would be a very easy sell.

Not that it is something I would do. Just trying to give you a different perspective. My personal limits are house invaders. If someone is outside my home, i likely wouldn't even notice them.

However, if i were driving down the road and someone wanted to steal something off my car? Yeah, i'd pummel them. Not doing so just sends a message that you will let people steal from you.

a reply to: Kromlech
It does not. In fact the flag has nothing to do with the nine people slain at the church. Those poor people would turn over in their graves if they knew that their deaths were being used this way.

originally posted by: TerminalVelocity
a reply to: FormOfTheLord

You are obviously not well versed of the laws of individual states concerning trespassing and theft.

You do seem well versed in rhetoric and having a completely closed mind on what things are, what they should be and what people should believe (which is: I'm right and if you don't agree, you're a racist.)

History is FULL of people and groups of people that insist that their way is the only way and that it's the right way.

Hitler and the Nazi party felt that way, I'm sure. Stalin, Mao....the list goes on. Encourage behavior that is wrong against a group of people, because it's the "right" thing to do. Drum up the hysteria of people and sway them that certain things and symbols MUST be destroyed!

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Freedom, that is limited, restricted, that muzzles the people, is NOT freedom. It's living by other people's tyrannical rule.
Freedom, to be TRULY free, means allowing everyone to have a right to their say, their thoughts, their beliefs.

Whether you agree with it or not.

Trying to remove all that, control that or get rid of that is NOT freedom.

It's tyranny.

You and others here on ATS have shown quite clearly that you do not actually believe in real freedom. What you believe is that everyone MUST conform to your views, your beliefs, your ideas and must do what you want them to do.

You all have shown that you really do not believe in the first amendment of the Bill of Rights, that instead, people and their beliefs, ideas and freedom of expression must be controlled, or worse: eradicated.

If that is your "utopia", I can certainly do without it.

1st amendment doesnt give you the right to disciminate against people nor does it give you the right to incite violence. The confederate flag incites violence and dehumanization. Its the we want slavery and the freedom to dehumanize our fellow human beings flag. Which is why it was taken down recently, its waved by racists including the KKK in thier rallies, it was revitalized by the dixiecrats in 1948 as a protest for being pro segregation, the dixiecrats were protesting laws which forbid lynching of African Americans, thats how the confederate flag came to represent the confederacy. People hang it in thier yards and on thier cars out of dense ignorance.

Either they are:
A) Trying to offend people of non caucasian races
B) Incorrectly think its part of their confederate southern pride(it actually represents racism and slavery)
C) Just want to be racist rebels and dont care who they offend, nor do they care what it stands for.(slavery and racism)
D) Just doing it because they saw some racist murderer waving the flag and think its cool.
E) Are completly ignorant willfully so, and refuse to accept what they know to be true.(its a racist slave flag)
F) All of the above

a reply to: FormOfTheLord

You are correct in that the first amendment does not give people the right to discriminate or hurt others.

However: everything that you've said about the flag and other Confederate symbols are nothing more than your opinion.

The statement you just made is labeling and entire group of people, making a statement that they must all be racist and bigots.

Making a statement like that is the actual defining part of being a racist or bigot.

How is declaring that every single person that displays that flag must be one of the things above that you listed, not in itself a racist or bigot way of thinking?

Why is only your idea of what that symbol means the only right one and everyone else is wrong?

I'm sorry, but those statements seem to me to be just as bad as what you are claiming.

originally posted by: TerminalVelocity
a reply to: FormOfTheLord

You are correct in that the first amendment does not give people the right to discriminate or hurt others.

However: everything that you've said about the flag and other Confederate symbols are nothing more than your opinion.

The statement you just made is labeling and entire group of people, making a statement that they must all be racist and bigots.

Making a statement like that is the actual defining part of being a racist or bigot.

How is declaring that every single person that displays that flag must be one of the things above that you listed, not in itself a racist or bigot way of thinking?

Why is only your idea of what that symbol means the only right one and everyone else is wrong?

I'm sorry, but those statements seem to me to be just as bad as what you are claiming.

Do you even know who the dixiecrats were?

a reply to: FormOfTheLord

Either they are:
A) Trying to offend people of non caucasian races
B) Incorrectly think its part of their confederate southern pride(it actually represents racism and slavery)
C) Just want to be racist rebels and dont care who they offend, nor do they care what it stands for.(slavery and racism)
D) Just doing it because they saw some racist murderer waving the flag and think its cool.
E) Are completly ignorant willfully so, and refuse to accept what they know to be true.(its a racist slave flag)
F) All of the above

What a beautiful picture you paint with that broad stroke of your brush....NOT. Don't act like you KNOW what my thoughts and actions mean or represent. The confederate flag is QUICKLY taking on a new meaning. To me it now says ENOUGH. I am sick and tired of someone else telling me how to behave because of their sensitive feelings. Grow up. We are no longer in grade school. I don't run yelling and expect you to change when I don't agree with you, so stop doing it to me.

This topic is about someone breaking the law and coming onto property to remove something that is mine. This is breaking the law and risking their life. I will not shoot you over a flag; however I WILL shoot you if I fear for my life. If you are on my property after dark, I will shoot and then if able I will ask you to explain why you are there.

If your neighbor put up a hideously ugly decoration would you walk over and tear it down? Why is this any different? My yard, my house, my property. Get over it.

a reply to: FormOfTheLord

Yes. They were Americans. Protected by the US Constitution, just like any US citizen is.

Do I agree what they stood for? No.

Do I think we should think like them? No.

Do I believe that they should have the same freedoms and rights as any US citizen? Absolutely.

Do I think that every person who desires to have, display or fly any Confederate flag is a Dixiecrat? Absolutely NOT.

Do I think that one group of people (the Dixiecrats) have complete control and domain over what a symbol means?

No.

As someone else just pointed out, you're using a very broad brush to paint a LOT of people.

That in itself goes against what you say you are fighting for.

While I do not like racism, bigotry or discrimination, and I really would like to see it go away, I will not do so at the cost of people's freedom of expression.

That's not freeing people. That's demanding that they give up their freedom, and conform.

Again: that's not freedom. That's tyranny.

originally posted by: TerminalVelocity
a reply to: FormOfTheLord

Yes. They were Americans. Protected by the US Constitution, just like any US citizen is.

Do I agree what they stood for? No.

Do I think we should think like them? No.

Do I believe that they should have the same freedoms and rights as any US citizen? Absolutely.

Do I think that every person who desires to have, display or fly any Confederate flag is a Dixiecrat? Absolutely NOT.

Do I think that one group of people (the Dixiecrats) have complete control and domain over what a symbol means?

No.

As someone else just pointed out, you're using a very broad brush to paint a LOT of people.

That in itself goes against what you say you are fighting for.

While I do not like racism, bigotry or discrimination, and I really would like to see it go away, I will not do so at the cost of people's freedom of expression.

That's not freeing people. That's demanding that they give up their freedom, and conform.

Again: that's not freedom. That's tyranny.

Well the dixiecrats were the ones who choose to have that flag represent the confederacy in 1948, which by the way the actual confederacy rejected during the war as thier emblem, only a few small groups had it, and it was used as a navy jack.

Why do I mention the dixiecrats? Because they were the ones that revitilized the flag and made it popular again for racist reasons, the very same confederate flag is popular today becuse of thier racist protest to no longer being able to lynch and burn African Americans.

So people are flying the flag that the dixiecrats used to represent the south, they did it for racist reasons and yes people were on board for racist reasons when they flew the rectangular flag after 1948.

You may want to get behind the confederate flag for different reasons, but that doesnt chage what it represents historically. You dont have a time machine and you cant rewrite history to make the confederate flag mean anythig other than racism, slavery, and human subjugation.

Its the very reason we went to war, for morality, and to fight against those who were see to be immoral in the treatment of thier fellow human beings.

Doesnt matter what you think it means it means racism and slavery, according to history.

Just like 1 means one and 2 means two the confederate flag means slavery, you can say its something else but to everyone who knows just a little history its a symbol for human oppression and subjugation.

Just think about it for some time, read up on the dixiecrats. . . . Understand what has been done cannot be undone.
Accept the facts of the current confederate flag.

If the south wants a new flag to represent their southern heratage I dont think anyone would have a problem with that, but the old ones have alot of bad history and nothing good will ever come from brandishing symbols that provoke people.

Do so at your own risk. You go looking for trouble you will find it, you go looking for peace you will find it.

originally posted by: Martin75
a reply to: FormOfTheLord

Either they are:
A) Trying to offend people of non caucasian races
B) Incorrectly think its part of their confederate southern pride(it actually represents racism and slavery)
C) Just want to be racist rebels and dont care who they offend, nor do they care what it stands for.(slavery and racism)
D) Just doing it because they saw some racist murderer waving the flag and think its cool.
E) Are completly ignorant willfully so, and refuse to accept what they know to be true.(its a racist slave flag)
F) All of the above

What a beautiful picture you paint with that broad stroke of your brush....NOT. Don't act like you KNOW what my thoughts and actions mean or represent. The confederate flag is QUICKLY taking on a new meaning. To me it now says ENOUGH. I am sick and tired of someone else telling me how to behave because of their sensitive feelings. Grow up. We are no longer in grade school. I don't run yelling and expect you to change when I don't agree with you, so stop doing it to me.

This topic is about someone breaking the law and coming onto property to remove something that is mine. This is breaking the law and risking their life. I will not shoot you over a flag; however I WILL shoot you if I fear for my life. If you are on my property after dark, I will shoot and then if able I will ask you to explain why you are there.

If your neighbor put up a hideously ugly decoration would you walk over and tear it down? Why is this any different? My yard, my house, my property. Get over it.

Learn history go learn who the dixiecrats were, and then tell me the facts of the confederate flag. . .

Or will you ignore history and just try and make up your own?

a reply to: FormOfTheLord

I don't care who the dixiecrats are!!!!!! The black panthers use a Black Panther as their "mascot". I still like panthers. Just because someone USED something doesn't paint how I as an individual views it. You can think thoughts for yourself, right?


You are ignoring the issue. I have the RIGHT to hang this flag!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hey my thread got opened back up!

a reply to: FormOfTheLord

Not sure what people's opinion of the flag or it's origin has to do with this topic.

The topic is people being encouraged to trespass and steal. The object being stolen does not matter. In my state the law gives the homeowner the right to defend property with lethal force. Texas isn't the only state that allows for that.

a reply to: FormOfTheLord

A flag doesn't incite anything. Something someone says may, MAY, incite violence but a symbol does not and cannot. A symbol's only power comes from what it means to the observer.

To me, the Battle Flag represents state's rights vs a powerful central government. Regardless of how it makes you feel, that is the first thought that pops into my head when I see it. My great-grandparents didn't even come here until after the civil war so I have no dog in that fight. To say the only thing the flag represents is slavery and oppression is ignorant to the highest degree, because that's only your opinion of a symbol, and everybody has one.

originally posted by: Martin75
a reply to: FormOfTheLord

I don't care who the dixiecrats are!!!!!! The black panthers use a Black Panther as their "mascot". I still like panthers. Just because someone USED something doesn't paint how I as an individual views it. You can think thoughts for yourself, right?


You are ignoring the issue. I have the RIGHT to hang this flag!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

See there you dont care who they are so you dont know what your doing.

originally posted by: thov420
a reply to: FormOfTheLord

A flag doesn't incite anything. Something someone says may, MAY, incite violence but a symbol does not and cannot. A symbol's only power comes from what it means to the observer.

To me, the Battle Flag represents state's rights vs a powerful central government. Regardless of how it makes you feel, that is the first thought that pops into my head when I see it. My great-grandparents didn't even come here until after the civil war so I have no dog in that fight. To say the only thing the flag represents is slavery and oppression is ignorant to the highest degree, because that's only your opinion of a symbol, and everybody has one.

A flag can certainly incite people, go wave it downtown at a city center, you will incite plenty of people.

a reply to: XTexan

Very true. I happen to know James Avant, from the following story:

www.newswest9.com...

Not like a friend...but you don't live in this area and not know the Avant family. He shot the robber while he was fleeing. The cop showed up, took a statement, retrieved the body, and went about their day.

We take property rights very seriously.

a reply to: FormOfTheLord

Doesn't matter...

If you trespass and steal any of the follow items, in my state at least, you risk being shot.

confederate flag
nazi flag
american flag
jewish flag
korean flag
iranian flag
russian flag
fork
spoon
bread
cheese

Trespassing and stealing any of the above items could get you shot and killed. Sure a jury of 12 might put the shooter away, but your still dead. To encourage or defend criminal behavior is dangerous to everyone involved.