The Confederate flag should be taken down and burned.

a reply to: Greathouse

Yeah states rights to own slaves.

This “states rights” nonsense is only a smokescreen for those who want justification of their evil…
Today it is code for racism rights as it was code back then for slavery rights


All these states in the south that have the confederate flag should be sued for advocating, encouraging, and sponsoring racism and its maintenance.


This flag is the same for black people as the swastika is for Jews…no difference

a reply to: seagull

That's about what I figured. But it's hard to tell sometimes on the interwebs...

Especially here - in very intense and emotional threads :-)

a reply to: Willtell

So those mountain boys from Tennessee, Kentucky, and elsewhere were fighting to preserve slavery? Mountain boys who didn't even own shoes, muchless other humans?

Some were fighting to preserve the plantation culture, read slavery. Many were not.

It was "states rights". All of them. Not just slavery.

a reply to: masqua

I think that flag waving over capitol buildings and courtrooms tells black people that the people working in those buildings, where it is beyond crucial that people are viewed equally, don't view them equally at all. That is demoralizing and disenfranchising.

a reply to: seagull

They may not have been fighting to retain slaves they owned, but the notion that they could one day... and they were very much fighting the notion that black people were their equal. It's the latter part that got all them boys all riled up and signing up to fight.

a reply to: seagull

So those mountain boys from Tennessee, Kentucky, and elsewhere were fighting to preserve slavery? Mountain boys who didn't even own shoes, muchless other humans?

So true. Plenty were conscripted. They were a kind of slave for the war effort

All kinds of people get sacrificed for other people's needs and wants. Human rights go out the window post-haste if they aren't convenient

a reply to: seagull

The first general American military draft was enacted by the Confederate government on April 16, 1862, more than a year before the federal government did the same. The Confederacy took this step because it had to; its territory was being assailed on every front by overwhelming numbers, and the defending armies needed men to fill the ranks. The compulsory-service law was very unpopular in the South because it was viewed as a usurpation of the rights of individuals by the central government, one of the reasons the South went to war in the first place.

confederate draft

The flag should not fly over the capitol nor any governmental building as it doesn't represent the people and in fact stands as a symbol of oppression racism and slavery no matter how much lipstick you put on it. Just ask any black people, now, today.

a reply to: seagull

Those “mountain boys” were brainwashed racists, as well flunkies for the rich land and slave owners.


Their racism was certainly a sign of the times of that era so they were zombies like the ISIS fools fighting for the ignorant imams who have brainwashed them.


They died for the southern “gentlemen” who owned slaves and the concept of perpetual white supremecy

a reply to: Willtell

Those “mountain boys” were brainwashed racists, as well flunkies for the rich land and slave owners

They died for the southern “gentlemen” who owned slaves and the concept of perpetual white supremecy

A lot of really good young people have also died for oil - if not cotton. Many young men died in Vietnam fighting for a theory. Let's try and keep some perspective

The brainwashed part is nothing new. You tell a kid he's fighting for slaves - you might not get what you're looking for. You tell him he's fighting for God and country and freedom? There you go - you just won the lottery

Not all who fight for a cause do so willingly - or even if they do, they might not see the cause the same way

The entire south was not racist then anymore than this entire country is racist now. Sometimes a system is kept afloat by some people while the rest just try to keep their heads above water. It took an entire country up until the civil rights movement to seriously address this situation - and look! 2015 and we're still working on it

It takes 300 million people (more or less) to accept things as they are even when they don't agree with them to allow for this kind of nonsense to stay the same

a reply to: muse7

The Confederate flag is a cool flag and should remain where it is. It should be flown more often and everywhere.

I say God bless the union men who died in that war

The civil war, although a brutal, tragic, unfortunate and always unnecessary war, is one of the finest hours of America because it led to the freedom of black slaves.

For anyone to praise or glorify the bloodthirsty morons (of the southern confederacy and their blood soaked flag) who caused that war to me is a fool.


We shouldn’t EVER be proud when our ancestors do evil and cause such suffering


The south should be ashamed of that flag


Maybe God forgives the ignorant men of the confederacy who got drafted and was forced through social coercion to fight.

But they died through the stubborn racism of the south’s leaders.

originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: masqua

I think that flag waving over capitol buildings and courtrooms tells black people that the people working in those buildings, where it is beyond crucial that people are viewed equally, don't view them equally at all. That is demoralizing and disenfranchising.

Once again, I agree with you.

What I am trying to say is that the Confederate flag has to lose what it stands for. Take it down, leave it up, put it in a museum, burn it... whatever. The fact is that it is a symbol and it needs to lose what that symbolism stands for. As long as people see it as a positive comment for slavery, then it remains a contentious symbol no matter if it's on a bumper or flying over City Hall.

The flag only has true meaning to the families of those who fought in the Civil War. It is a part of their family history and that will never be eradicated in memory.

Detach slavery from that flag and you will remove the concepts of racialism from it as well. Neuter that damnable thing.

Hiding it in a closet isn't going to stop racism.

a reply to: Willtell

Most historians trace the cause of the Civil War back to the 1816 Tarrif act . Where northern political interest wanted a part of southern trade . ( unfair taxing )


This anger multiplied exponentially when tariffs or increased in 1828 . It was at this point in history that South Carolina first threatened and considered secession . Secession of the state was avoided by a 10 year compromise.

The Nullification Crisis was a sectional crisis in 1832-33, during the presidency of Andrew Jackson, that involved a confrontation between South Carolina and the federal government. The crisis ensued after South Carolina declared that the federal Tariffs of 1828 and 1832 were unconstitutional and therefore null and void within the sovereign boundaries of the state

On July 14, 1832, before Calhoun had resigned the Vice Presidency in order to run for the Senate where he could more effectively defend nullification,[4] Jackson signed into law the Tariff of 1832. This compromise tariff received the support of most northerners and half of the southerners in Congress.[5] The reductions were too little for South Carolina, and on November 24, 1832, a state convention adopted the Ordinance of Nullification, which declared that the Tariffs of 1828 and 1832 were unconstitutional and unenforceable in South Carolina after February 1, 1833. Military preparations to resist anticipated federal enforcement were initiated by the state.[6] On March 1, 1833, Congress passed both the Force Bill—authorizing the President to use military forces against South Carolina—and a new negotiated tariff, the Compromise Tariff of 1833, which was satisfactory to South Carolina. The South Carolina convention reconvened and repealed its Nullification Ordinance on March 15, 1833, but three days later nullified the Force Bill as a symbolic gesture to maintain its principles.

The crisis was over, and both sides could find reasons to claim victory. The tariff rates were reduced and stayed low to the satisfaction of the South, but the states’ rights doctrine of nullification remained controversial. By the 1850s the issues of the expansion of slavery into the western territories and the threat of the Slave Power became the central
issues in the nation.[7]

.

Read the part highlighted. It was that point in history from where the Civil War developed . A state nullifing an act of Congress . The Civil War was foremost a direct attempt to bring all of the states under federal leadership . And guess what they won so they wrote the version you listen to the federal government has the final say.

The nullification crisis

a reply to: Willtell

Whatever you think you need to tell yourself...

a reply to: Greathouse






Read this:

It may be that the states rights rap is a distortion:


www.livescience.com...

The myth that the war was not about slavery seems to be a self-protective one for many people, said Stan Deaton, the senior historian at the Georgia Historical Society.
"People think that somehow it demonizes their ancestors," to have fought for slavery, Deaton told LiveScience. But the people fighting at the time were very much aware of what was at stake, Deaton said.
"[Defining the war] is our problem," he said. "I don't think it was theirs."

The most widespread myth is also the most basic. Across America, 60 percent to 75 percent of high-school history teachers believe and teach that the South seceded for state's rights, said Jim Loewen, author of "Lies My Teacher Told Me: Everything Your American History Textbook Got Wrong" (Touchstone, 1996) and co-editor of "The Confederate and Neo-Confederate Reader: The 'Great Truth' about the 'Lost Cause'" (University Press of Mississippi, 2010).
"It's complete B.S.," Loewen told LiveScience. "And by B.S., I mean 'bad scholarship.'"
In fact, Loewen said, the original documents of the Confederacy show quite clearly that the war was based on one thing: slavery. For example, in its declaration of secession, Mississippi explained, "Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery — the greatest material interest of the world … a blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization." In its declaration of secession, South Carolina actually comes out against the rights of states to make their own laws — at least when those laws conflict with slaveholding. "In the State of New York even the right of transit for a slave has been denied by her tribunals," the document reads. The right of transit, Loewen said, was the right of slaveholders to bring their slaves along with them on trips to non-slaveholding states.

a reply to: muse7

Awesome post, S&F. I couldn't agree with you more.

As someone who lives in the north, I could never understand these backwards southern states displaying such a symbol of hatred and racism. It just continues to make them look backwards to others.

It's like flinging feces in the faces of those who were oppressed by slavery and segregation. Sad.

originally posted by: Willtell
a reply to: Greathouse






Read this:

It may be that the states rights rap is a distortion:


www.livescience.com...

The myth that the war was not about slavery seems to be a self-protective one for many people, said Stan Deaton, the senior historian at the Georgia Historical Society.
"People think that somehow it demonizes their ancestors," to have fought for slavery, Deaton told LiveScience. But the people fighting at the time were very much aware of what was at stake, Deaton said.
"[Defining the war] is our problem," he said. "I don't think it was theirs."

The most widespread myth is also the most basic. Across America, 60 percent to 75 percent of high-school history teachers believe and teach that the South seceded for state's rights, said Jim Loewen, author of "Lies My Teacher Told Me: Everything Your American History Textbook Got Wrong" (Touchstone, 1996) and co-editor of "The Confederate and Neo-Confederate Reader: The 'Great Truth' about the 'Lost Cause'" (University Press of Mississippi, 2010).
"It's complete B.S.," Loewen told LiveScience. "And by B.S., I mean 'bad scholarship.'"
In fact, Loewen said, the original documents of the Confederacy show quite clearly that the war was based on one thing: slavery. For example, in its declaration of secession, Mississippi explained, "Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery — the greatest material interest of the world … a blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization." In its declaration of secession, South Carolina actually comes out against the rights of states to make their own laws — at least when those laws conflict with slaveholding. "In the State of New York even the right of transit for a slave has been denied by her tribunals," the document reads. The right of transit, Loewen said, was the right of slaveholders to bring their slaves along with them on trips to non-slaveholding states.

The Civil War like most wars wasn't over one issue, what war was?

That's exactly what I have been saying .


I read your piece, I did not see any links I will have to research the opinion . On the other hand I brought actual cold hard facts including the first movement of secession over states rights.

I have studied this issue, because for a long part of my life I had the same opinion that you hold now . I was only trying to do what this site ask for and share accurate information .

I showed you the start of the Civil War the first threat of secession . This issue was confronted over and over for the next 30 years prior to the Civil War . The reason given for the Civil War was slavery and that is widely excepted even I acknowledge it. But to the non-slaveowners it was about state rights and federal government incursion . To them the Yankee was invading the south and that was all that concerned them .

a reply to: Spiramirabilis

Agreed. Thanks....
MS

Its happening, and I think a trend is beggining more towards a non tolerance of racism.



Activists Burn Confederate Flag In Response To South Carolina Shootings
A small group of activists burned two Confederate flags Friday on the Independence Mall in Philadelphia in response to this week's shooting in Charleston, South Carolina, and the continued presence of the flag in that state.

“That flag, to us, says terrorism. It’s a slap in the face to those folks that were murdered,” Mannwell Glenn, one of the activists, told Philadelphia's NBC10.

“In America, it’s the Confederacy and the Confederate flag. We have a problem with that, as much as maybe a Jewish person would have a problem with a Nazi flag,” he added.

Glenn also called for a boycott of goods from South Carolina, reported the Philadelphia Inquirer.

Following the Wednesday shooting that killed nine, South Carolina lowered the U.S. and state flags to half-staff at the Capitol in Columbia, but the Confederate flag was not lowered. This created a striking juxtaposition, considering the alleged shooter, Dylann Roof, associated himself with Confederate imagery and racist ideology.

The current flag display lacks a pulley system on the pole, making it physically impossible to move it to half-staff.

confederate flag

"In that South Carolina will never willingly take down the flag, the time has come for opponents to exercise their First Amendment right to free speech and burn the Confederate flag," former New York Times reporter Joe Lapointe wrote in an op-ed for the Detroit Free Press on Friday.

The placement of the Confederate flag at the statehouse can only be altered by the legislature, The Washington Post reported. In fact, changing the display requires approval from supermajorities of both the state's House and Senate.

One state legislator, Rep. Doug Brannon (R-Spartanburg County), told The Associated Press he believes it's time to remove the flag. It's “not just a symbol of hate, it’s actually a symbol of pride in one’s hatred," he said.

The Confederate battle flag flew atop the South Carolina state Capitol building between 1962 and 2000, according to The New York Times. It has flown at a nearby Confederate memorial since then.

originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: yuppa

DO NOT FORGET MOST SLAVES WERE SOLD BY THEIR OWN ETHNICITIES AND THEY DID THE CAPTURING AND BRINGING THEM TO MARKET

Yes... therefore completely justifying BUYING them and keeping them in chains, forcing them to do manual labor, beating them, whipping them. It's all okay because their own kind sold them in the first place... /s

They would not had bought them if they would not had been offerred them in the first place. The arabians started th eslave trade from africa if you do a little digging. No where did i say it was OK did i? Once again cherry picking a reply of mine always turns out screwing up my message. Its misleading. See I didnt cherry pick yours right?

Still though at th etime of slavery it was still LEGAL under the constitution until the northers passed Emancipation. the southerners thought that was UN constitutional and tried to succeed.

Point still remains the FLAG doesnt mean SLAVERY to me or anyone but someone with a AGENDA. Its liek the USMC flag being called a symbol of oppression it just dont fly.