Children as young as 12 are receiving drugs to prepare them for sex change!

originally posted by: The angel of light
The fact that the parents of this person didn't assume their role with responsibilityin his or her case does not mean that we all here are going to promote such a situation in other people or tolerate that this person try to do it.

Thanks,

The Angel of Lightness

You know, that bolded part really ignores everything I've told you about my parents. Would you like to talk with them and tell them what you said here?

I can arrange a conference call if you'd like. I think if you talked with them they would probably convince you just how wrong you are about them.

My parents loved me and wanted me to be happy, and most of all ALIVE.

I told my mom when I was a small child that if I was I boy I wished I had never been born.

Think about THAT for a moment. Seriously think about it.

So my offer is open. Would you like to speak with my mom and dad? You wouldn't be the first they've talked to about this.

originally posted by: JadeStar

originally posted by: The angel of light
a reply to: DiggerDogg

I'm sorry if that offends you but considering you'd have had me go through male puberty become a guy in a dress or (more likely) suicide I do not feel I was at all out of line in sharing my personal experience.

.

First let me thank you for your honesty, support and insight on this subject in this thread. So please do not take this the wrong way, it's just that I can't help but feel like referring to someone as a man in a dress because they didn't receive blockers or hormones early enough is hurtful.

I bring this up because it is actually common in our community for the younger more stealth girls to kind of ostracize the older ladies who are the real reason the younger generation could be more comfortable in this day and age. I have been guilty of this myself and I feel bad when I look at someone that may not be as passable as I am and think hanging out with them would be embarrassing.

Have you heard of the trans-seperatist movement? I get it I do and part of me agrees but I also feel like we ALL need all the support from one another. I'm just saying it can be pretty hurtful when someone within your own community looks down on you for not being pretty or passable enough.

a reply to: JadeStar

With all respect, I feel your post is really pathetic, for me it is clear that even after all what you have done with yourself there could be some kind of emotional unbalance somewhere in your mind that is manifest in your reactions.

You are coming here, kidnapping the thread for promoting your own way of life, the way your family handle your case , to portrait them as the ideals or the model to follow by others..

Your cynicism is really funny, since we are here discussing surgical procedures and hormonal treatments that supposedly are intended to sterilize and mutilate adolescents.

Do you really expect that were going to give you an applause? of course no, and don't black mail us that if you are not allowed to do so you are going to commit suicide.

What have you done to your descendants? what name has what you decided to do for your own children? have you thought on that?. Think on that before to claim that you have the right to influence in others lives, as well as to "educate" others. .

This is the consequence of a perverted way to understand civil rights. I'm, sure Martin Luther King will die again if he might resurrect now and see what people of this time is doing in the name of civil rights.

Thanks,

The Angel of Lightness

I find you sharing your self-righteous beliefs in a book that is backed by no evidence as your grounds to come here and call people mentally unstable or whatever other misguided labels you would cast on us to be offensive and counter-productive.

Since you seem to think that a lot of science which has been used in this thread by people directly involved with this issue is just Pyscho-babble. To that sir I say at least that which has scientific backing and recognition from reputable doctors is more relevant and contributive to this thread than your Bible-babble.

So with all due respect take your antiquated belief in something which has no provable evidence to back it up and go start a sermon thread where more of your flock will appreciate your words. Your no angel I know that too.

a reply to: The angel of light

originally posted by: TrappedPrincess

originally posted by: JadeStar

originally posted by: The angel of light
a reply to: DiggerDogg

I'm sorry if that offends you but considering you'd have had me go through male puberty become a guy in a dress or (more likely) suicide I do not feel I was at all out of line in sharing my personal experience.

.

First let me thank you for your honesty, support and insight on this subject in this thread. So please do not take this the wrong way, it's just that I can't help but feel like referring to someone as a man in a dress because they didn't receive blockers or hormones early enough.

I'm sorry. I really did not mean to refer to you or anyone else who didn't take blockers or transition early as a man in a dress.

What I meant by saying that is that's how -I- would have been made to feel had I gone through male puberty, grown a beard and had a deep voice. I'd have known I was a girl but now as an adult who would have had people telling me I was a man I'd have felt freakish. I do not think I could have waited until I was 18 or 25 or 30 or 40 like some have. I don't know honestly how they did it but I have utmost respect for their journey and the strength they have had to have to get that far in life.

It is a strength I am almost certain I would not have had.

I bring this up because it is actually common in our community for the younger more stealth girls to kind of ostracize the older ladies who are the real reason the younger generation could be more comfortable in this day and age. I have been guilty of this myself and I feel bad when I look at someone that may not be as passable as I am and think hanging out with them would be embarrassing.

I want to thank older ladies like yourself for making it easier for us and please understand I do not judge anyone who goes down this road. Everyone is different and had their own personal histories and reasons for transitioning when they did or not transitioning at all even.

And that's all o.k.

You're o.k Princess and I love that you are here :hearts:

Have you heard of the trans-eperatist movement?

No, what's that?

I have to be honest, I am not really into the trans activist movement type stuff. I live a pretty stealth life. I didn't go through this to be different. I went through this to be normal.

I get it I do and part of me agrees but I also feel like we ALL need all the support from one another. I'm just saying it can be pretty hurtful when someone within your own community looks down on you for not being pretty or passable enough.

I think this too is due to fear and the fact that we are in a fairly superficial society where attractiveness and beauty are made to matter even in places we think they shouldn't unfortunately.

I would never look down on you or anyone else who went through this for that matter. It is what is inside that matters and is truly the most attractive part of a person.

I met a real life rocket scientist who worked for NASA presenting as a guy who then retired and transitioned to female and she is one of the most beautiful caring souls I know of. Outwardly she would not be seen as attractive or even very feminine but as I said, it's what is inside that matters. She taught me a lot about engineering and was very welcoming when I told her that I was trans like her. I could tell she was but she couldn't tell that I was but none of that matters. She chose to help ME, a lowly undergrad and I will always appreciate that and her sacrifice by being someone who made it easier for me to even exist!

originally posted by: The angel of light
a reply to: JadeStar

With all respect, I feel your post is really pathetic, for me it is clear that even after all what you have done with yourself there could some kind of emotional unbalance somewhere in your mind that is manifest in your reactions.

You are coming here, kidnapping the thread for promoting your own way of life, the way your family handle your case , to portrait them as the ideals or the model to follow by others..

I came here to shed light on a difficult issue from the perspective of someone who was the center of it. Shedding light is the antithesis of ignorance and I feel that much of what you are spreading in this thread is rather ignorant. I'm sorry but that's the truth.

I can see through your thinly veiled attempts to portray me as abnormal (and thus dismissed). I also can see you're trying to drive me from this thread.

If that's what people want then I'll go. At least I tried.

www.transadvocate.com... tm

Basically Trans-women want to separate themselves from cross-dressers and all the in between's that are focused more on the sexual aspects of it. Like I said it is something I considered before I even heard the term.

I'd also like to add for the more "moral" crowed here I also have no respect for those that hide it from significant others and then spring it on them 20 years into a marriage. That I do not approve of, I have met girls in this community that I felt put way too much emphasis on the transition and not enough on their own children of families.




a reply to: JadeStar

originally posted by: The angel of light

What have you done to your descendants?

what name has what you decided to do for your own children? have you thought on that?. Think on that before to claim that you have the right to influence in others lives, as well as to "educate" others. .

I have no descendants (i'm only 20, soon to be 21) but I do hope to adopt the unloved descendants of someone else some day. Did that answer your question? k thx.

This is the consequence of a perverted way to understand civil rights. I'm, sure Martin Luther King will die again if he might resurrect now and see what people of this time is doing in the name of civil rights.

Thanks,

The Angel of Lightness

As a young interracial woman I find your using Martin Luther King's name in this way absolutely abhorrent.

originally posted by: TrappedPrincess
www.transadvocate.com... tm

Basically Trans-women want to separate themselves from cross-dressers and all the in between's that are focused more on the sexual aspects of it. Like I said it is something I considered before I even heard the term.




a reply to: JadeStar

I can understand that since the whole trans subject has been overly sexualized in this country in my opinion. Most of us just want to get on with life and have no interest in being asked crass, salacious questions about sex or being defined by the "tranny porn" industry.

originally posted by: TrappedPrincess
I'd also like to add for the more "moral" crowed here I also have no respect for those that hide it from significant others and then spring it on them 20 years into a marriage. That I do not approve of, I have met girls in this community that I felt put way too much emphasis on the transition and not enough on their own children of families.

a reply to: JadeStar

The rocket scientist (propulsion engineer) woman I told you about hid it from her wife even though her wife knew about it when they first started dating. As she explained it she waffled back and forth and decided to transition only after her kids had grown up.

I have no idea how she could hide for so long and I know other girls like me who transitioned young who distrust women like her. I think at one point i might have as well. Same with Caitlyn Jenner. But having gotten to know the engineer I mentioned I totally learned that she was not unlike me. She felt all the same feelings as I did growing up but it was a different time back then and she felt she had to hide who she was in order to be successful.

I feel bad for the children she had to tell because they grew up having a dad and now have like two moms but luckily as more of us transition early stories like hers may become rare in the future.

a reply to: TrappedPrincess
TrappedPrincess,

This person can perform proselytism of her or his style of life on adults, that is a right that is guaranteed by the law, but do to that on underage people and moreover in people that are not even adolescents but children entering in puberty, is another very different thing.

I suggest you to check carefully the limits that the law has on what attains to promote child behavior or corrupt minds of children or youngsters before to come here, or to put them against their parents using a public media of communication like internet.

Any Educator can tell you that for situations like this a teacher that repeat the same statements of JadeStar in a classroom could lose his professional license in almost any civilized country.

This is a person that is clearly acting in a irresponsible and selfish way compromising the thread in situations that are potentially so risky, from the legal point of view, that can be even matter of an ulterior liability with respect to more cases at future.

Now, please keep for yourself your own opinions on my religious beliefs, that I have not even discussed here, it is clear that you are far to be the person to teach on that subject too, start to correct yourself before to try to deform or pervert the rules of decorum that must prevail here.

The personal life of JadeStar is not the Topic of the thread, so important part of what this person has disclosed here , in spite it is really true or not, is clearly off topic, and has few to do with the situation that correspond to Physicians and Hospitals.

We are taking about the medical responsibility and their liability in general, not anecdotal aspects of the life of one particular person. JadeStar can't by himself or herself claim to be a standard for the health sector in cases these ones, that is a decision that does not correspond even to that person, it is not only illegal to act in such a way it is insensate.

Thanks,

The Angel of Lightness

originally posted by: daryllyn

But it's totally okay to bash someone for their sexual preference/gender identity?

Ascribing 'bigotry' and 'hate' - both very popular slurs directed at Christians that are routinely ignored by the moderators and used by many moderators - to people who do not share your opinion of homosexuals and people pretending they can alter their sex is inherently bigoted behavior.

Given that it is an unpopular viewpoint on this website, it remains bigotry nonetheless.

You don't have to like it. You don't have to agree with it, but for your ilk to cast the Christian perspective in the category of hatred is the antithesis of what you attempt to present.

We see through it.

originally posted by: The angel of light

The personal life of JadeStar is not the Topic of the thread, so important part of what this person has disclosed here , in spite it is really true or not, is clearly off topic, and has few to do with the situation that correspond to Physicians and Hospitals. We are taking about their responsibility and their liability in general not anecdotal aspects of the life of one particular person. JadeStar can't by himself or herself claim to be a standard for the health sector in cases these ones, that is a decision that does not correspond to that person.

Thanks,

I can help you here.

What I and my parents and doctors and school decided was completely legal. You talk about liability but you clearly have very little understanding of law or how law works.

I understand it serves your religious agenda to minimize my life as the outcome of postponing puberty, you know, the topic of the original post but simply screaming loud in bold type that I am irrelevant does not make it so.

I will not go away simply because you feel threatened by my existence as a healthy outcome of the checks and balances that were set up in my case.

You call yourself an angel of light but all I see here unfortunately is ignorance and darkness.

And to that end, it's herself, not himself or herself.

a reply to: Seamrog

Judge not, lest ye be judged.

Do unto to others as you would have them, do unto you.

Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone.

Unfortunately, many of those thumping their bibles, seem to be the first to forget the very teachings that they hide behind.

originally posted by: Annee


What does any of that have to do with a 12 year old and hormone blockers?

When people who rightly object to adults prescribing hormone-blocking medication to children as 'hateful bigots,' it fits the topic at hand.

Again - this has a new popularity here.

Christians are hateful bigots = "OK"

Christians who point out the horror of doing this to children = "HATEFUL BIGOTS!!!!"

a reply to: JadeStar

Appreciate all of the information. Twelve isn't a super young child, I agree, not as young as some I have read about in articles. Depending on the child, puberty could even hit by twelve. Not for all, but for some. There is still the issue of meddling around with hormone levels, during development, and we simply don't know what sort of long-term issues could result. Maybe none, maybe some, but not for all, or maybe a lot. Any drastic treatment will come with risks, and when it's a child involved, that's more serious. You don't mention any medical issues, and that's good, but it's still a concern overall. Just look how many supposedly safe treatments and drugs aren't as safe as they thought. That's one reason doing this with kids makes me concerned.

You state that you saw three psychologists. Did they hold any personal position on the issue? Was there any attempt to see if this was some mental disorder, or to try and change your thinking on the issue? If there was, it's clear from your testimony so far that it wasn't effective. At what point ws it decided that hormone treatments/delays were the best solution?

You mention sisters and a brother. How were all treated in the home? Chore distribution, what each as allowed to do, etc? Some households, there is some real disparity. And, no, that doesn't necessarily lead to your situation. It's been speculated, though, that some environmental situations could contribute to such issues, and combine with other factors.

I could see how keeping your distance could make for better stud habits. Too many teems get so caught up in fating that they are too distracted to really learn.

The friend of my eldest apparently did simply like the fabrics and styles better. Very different from the feeling of being a different sex than one's genes dictates.

Overall, I still believe lot of it is environmental, though there isn't any set formula to follow, to be able to predict it. It isn't a simple issue, no matter what our positions.

originally posted by: Seamrog

originally posted by: Annee


What does any of that have to do with a 12 year old and hormone blockers?

When people who rightly object to adults prescribing hormone-blocking medication to children as 'hateful bigots,' it fits the topic at hand.

Again - this has a new popularity here.

Christians are hateful bigots = "OK"

Christians who point out the horror of doing this to children = "HATEFUL BIGOTS!!!!"

I don't believe Christians are hateful bigots. I do however believe that some hateful bigots who want to control others people's bodies happen to unfortunately be Christian.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but does the hippocratic oath not say 'above all else - do no harm?' The idea being, medical doctors should not administer treatment if there is a chance of harmful side-effects.

After typing that out, I realize that rule has been ignored for some time...

originally posted by: OpenMindedRealist
Correct me if I'm wrong, but does the hippocratic oath not say 'above all else - do no harm?' The idea being, medical doctors should not administer treatment if there is a chance of harmful side-effects.

After typing that out, I realize that rule has been ignored for some time...

The Hippocrates oath is not required. More, and more doctors are not signing it because of new knowledge such as that of transgender.

The oath is antiquated.

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes
a reply to: JadeStar

Appreciate all of the information. Twelve isn't a super young child, I agree, not as young as some I have read about in articles. Depending on the child, puberty could even hit by twelve. Not for all, but for some. There is still the issue of meddling around with hormone levels, during development, and we simply don't know what sort of long-term issues could result. Maybe none, maybe some, but not for all, or maybe a lot. Any drastic treatment will come with risks, and when it's a child involved, that's more serious. You don't mention any medical issues, and that's good, but it's still a concern overall.

That's what health checkups are for and I'm healthy, happy and comfortable. Through my teens I was asked to fill out a questionnaire every year from about 14-19. I suspect now that I am studying to be a research scientist that the questions had to do with some study of kids like me. And my endocrinologist who did my bloodwork also closely monitored my hormone levels into high school.

So do know that this is all closely monitored. I get the impression people think this is being done on a whim or as some kind of Dr. Frankenstein, mad science experiment.

I can assure you that it is not.

Just look how many supposedly safe treatments and drugs aren't as safe as they thought. That's one reason doing this with kids makes me concerned.

In many of these kids cases it is deemed an acceptable risk since these drugs have been well studied for years. If you consider the severe unhappiness many are going through and the depression which often has lead to suicide in those who are severely depressed and untreated.

You state that you saw three psychologists. Did they hold any personal position on the issue?

Not that I remember. If they did, they didn't share it with me or my parents. Or my parents didn't share it with me. The last of them seemed very positive with regards to what we were doing and wrote down that I was well adjusted, motivated and happy on her final report which was given to my SRS surgeon.

Was there any attempt to see if this was some mental disorder,

Yes. And that was ruled out. Like I said, I was given a battery of tests through my childhood. Too many if you ask me. All I wanted was for people to listen and believe me when I told them that I was a girl.

I understand the exhaustive testing that was done, this was all very new to them 7-10 years ago.

or to try and change your thinking on the issue?

I was pretty clever and could tell when they were trying to get me to like boy things so yes there was some of that with my first psych but he threw up his hands and referred us to someone else who understood these issues.

If there was, it's clear from your testimony so far that it wasn't effective.

LMAO! Transgender people are not mental cases. That was firmly established WAY before I was even born. You may want to do some reading about how they determined that.

At what point ws it decided that hormone treatments/delays were the best solution?

When it became apparent to my family and the psych that this wasn't a phase or something I was doing for attention or something which I would outgrow.

You mention sisters and a brother. How were all treated in the home?

They were treated the same. My parents had the same rules for my older brother as my older sisters (i'm the youngest).

Chore distribution, what each as allowed to do, etc? Some households, there is some real disparity.

We all had to do the same stuff. Dishes, laundry, shovel snow in the winter, rake leaves in the fall, and my brother even babysat me when I was little. My parents didn't really believe in gender differentiation when it came to chores around the house.

We all had to do the same stuff.

And, no, that does[n't necessarily lead to your situation. It's been speculated, though, that some environmental situations could contribute to such issues, and combine with other factors.

It's speculation but that's about all it is. There's more scientific evidence the source of transgenderism begins in the womb long before we're born.

I could see how keeping your distance could make for better study habits. Too many teens get so caught up in dating that they are too distracted to really learn.

Yes. Until I met my boyfriend, while i was very interested in boys I knew that it was unlikely I would meet one who could understand why I was the way I was. Eventually I met one who didn't care that I was trans and didn't treat me any different from his past girlfriends (for better or worse lol!!!!) and we're still together today.

The friend of my eldest apparently did simply like the fabrics and styles better. Very different from the feeling of being a different sex than one's genes dictates.

Yes. A lot of people don't understand this though. We all get lumped together and I have no problem with cross-dressers. I think it's cute in a way but what they feel and experience is vastly different from what I feel and experience. They are guys.

Overall, I still believe lot of it is environmental, though there isn't any set formula to follow, to be able to predict it. It isn't a simple issue, no matter what our positions.

I would think if it were environmental then there would be wild variations in the incidence of transgenderism around the world because of differences in culture but it turns out that isn't the case. Which in my opinion rules out social environmental factors.