Children as young as 12 are receiving drugs to prepare them for sex change!

a reply to: JadeStar

Obviously, I can't speak for your personal experience, but when you have two women who are very anti-male (and some lesbians are like that - not all, but some), and a boy raised by them starts saying such things, that is a problem.

I still don't believe young children should be allowed to have that sort of treatment. Whether it is their idea or not, kids don't always fully understand everything about themselves, and it's been stated in this thread that many with some leanings toward feeling like the opposite sex had those feelings fade, allowing the hormones isn't a sound move. For those kids, when they decide they were wrong, what then? I wouldn't allow a small kid to pierce their ears, and feel that waits till a child is old enough to fully understand what they are doing. Hormone therapy, to ready for sex-change surgery, is a lot bigger than that.

In your case, if you don't mind my asking, how old were you when you felt you were supposed to be a girl? Were any tests run for hormonal imbalances, or other potential causes? Was counseling ever considered? Can you pinpoint any factors or influences that might have made you believe being female was more desirable? What issues, if any, has this caused you as an adult? I am not looking to judge, just to try and gain some understanding, because your point of view is very different from mine, and this issue isn't well understood even by the professionals. My oldest had a friend at one point, a guy, who preferred women's clothing, but acted in all other ways as any other guy, preferring girls. That's different from what you describe, and I have never heard the personal point of view on the issue. If you don't want to share that much, that's alright. Totally understand that.

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: JadeStar

Thank you for coming forward. Here's hoping you can open a few minds.

I just had a thought, do you think it would help if I posted pages from my diaries i kept when I was about the age people question here?

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes
a reply to: JadeStar

Obviously, I can't speak for your personal experience, but when you have two women who are very anti-male (and some lesbians are like that - not all, but some), and a boy raised by them starts saying such things, that is a problem.

But correlation does not equal causation because said "boy" could have been born to two heterosexual parents and this question wouldn't even be out there.

I still don't believe young children should be allowed to have that sort of treatment.

12 is not extremely young. I knew very well how I wanted to be at 24 when I was 12.

Look, prior to recently none of us got to choose when puberty hit.

BUT, for those of us born this way we at least now can postpone what is a life changing process a little later. All this treatment is doing is buying time.

Whether it is their idea or not, kids don't always fully understand everything about themselves, and it's been stated in this thread that many with some leanings toward feeling like the opposite sex had those feelings fade, allowing the hormones isn't a sound move.

But the original post isn't talking about hormones but rather treatments to block hormones their body is producing which have irreversible effects if left unblocked.

And as I said, I don't think you will find many who started hormone blockers and then chose to begin hormones who regret that decision.

Give us SOME credit. Most of us do more thinking about gender before we're 12 than a lot of people do all their lives because we -HAVE- to. Society FORCES us to by constantly telling us we're something we know inside that we are not.

For those kids, when they decide they were wrong, what then?

Better screening? I mean really you would rather girls grow up with deep voices and looking like a guy in a dress? Because like it or not that's what testosterone will do if not blocked.

I wouldn't allow a small kid to pierce their ears,

This is not about something that superficial. It's about who we fundamentally ARE.

and feel that waits till a child is old enough to fully understand what they are doing. Hormone therapy, to ready for sex-change surgery, is a lot bigger than that.

And because it is bigger than that is why there are plenty of checks and balances that are not involved with getting ears pierced.

Just looking through my diary here's what I had:

Elementary school - School psychologist
Middle school - HMO psychologist
Middle and High School - Endocrinologist and another Psychologist/Psychiatrist

So there were three psychologists and an Endocrinologist involved in my case. I was asked some pretty (in my honest opinion) pretty dumb questions along the way but it was all part of the process and i fully accept that.

No one is talking about these kids walking into the pharmacy (chemist in the UK right?) and getting hormone pills unscreened, unmonitored and unsupervised.

What they are talking about is allowing this kids the same chance I had, by buying them some time against puberty's onset because the kid themselves wanted this.

In your case, if you don't mind my asking, how old were you when you felt you were supposed to be a girl?

As I've said, as long as I can remember. Probably as soon as I knew there was a difference and was told I wasn't a girl like my sisters but a boy like my brother.

I knew that they were mistaken.

Were any tests run for hormonal imbalances, or other potential causes?

Yes. And they were negative. But for this I was considered a healthy child. Albeit an extremely unhappy one.

Was counseling ever considered?

Yes and I had it. The first psychologist was not very good to be honest (he said outright that this was out of his depth after a few sessions with me) but he did get us a referral to a better one well versed in gender issues. At the time I was her youngest "patient".

Can you pinpoint any factors or influences that might have made you believe being female was more desirable?

Can I ask you the same question? Can you pinpoint any factors or influences that might have made you believe being female was more desireable than wanting to be a boy since you know, society is pretty much geared towards men?

What issues, if any, has this caused you as an adult?

Honestly, none.

If anything it probably helped me in some ways.

My sister and I talked about this recently. She kinda thinks had I not been born differently than I might have been less serious about school and more into socializing.

I am fairly attractive (so I'm told) and in high school if no one knew I was trans I might have been more into dating and stuff. I would often have freshmen who didn't know or a new guy who transferred from another school ask me out or pass notes around only for them to lose interest when someone would tell them I was trans.

It was kind of sad but I had other interests like piano and the sciences. So i was either hanging out with other music geeks or with other science geeks.

Don't get me wrong, I met my boyfriend of 6 years in high school and been with him ever since but I sort of buried my head in books.

I had close friends as well and did all the normal teenage girl stuff like shopping and hanging out at the mall and slumber parties and dances (once i met my boyfriend) but I was not wild or anything and my sister thinks had I not been born trans I might have been since guys would always be coming up to me at the mall and stuff or but I kind of kept my distance.

So because I was so focused in my studies I've done well educationally. College opened up a completely new universe with regards to my social life and my boyfriend and I on several occasions thought it would be healthy if we saw other people. I did not have any major issues with dating other than the usual ones any other girl has with guys.

I am not looking to judge, just to try and gain some understanding, because your point of view is very different from mine, and this issue isn't well understood even by the professionals.

I am more than happy to open my life to you and answer just about any question you might have if it helps foster better understanding.

My oldest had a friend at one point, a guy, who preferred women's clothing, but acted in all other ways as any other guy, preferring girls.

Yes, he was a crossdresser. It's actually quite common, at least far more common than being trans. 90 percent of crossdressers are heterosexual.

While some transgender women may look like crossdressers (particularly those who did not start early in life), crossdressers have very little else in common with us. They don't wish they were women, they don't want to be women. They just like the fashion choices, and feel of different fabrics different than their male clothes I guess?

That's different from what you describe,

Yes it is.

and I have never heard the personal point of view on the issue.

That's why I decided I had to out myself here.

If you don't want to share that much, that's alright. Totally understand that.

I appreciate that but it's ok.

a reply to: queenofswords

It's long been known that people in government belong to cults and secret societies

And that they use children as playthings

What do you expect

originally posted by: OldIsNewAgain
a reply to: queenofswords

It's long been known that people in government belong to cults and secret societies

And that they use children as playthings

What do you expect

So what secret society or cult did this to me?

a reply to: DaRAGE

After reading a lot of posts, the pro's and con's, I'd like to mention something that I don't believe has been addressed. It has to do with this...

The drug stops the hormones. It allows the 12 year old child to mature mentally and make a decision years later (yes even when they're 18) as to whether they will go through with the change. It's an easier and better way of changing from a guy to a girl. You wouldn't get big man hands, huge broad shoulders, a smaller waist, facial hair, a face that looks more like a guys than a girls, a deeper sounding voice that sounds like a guy, a huge Adams apple, etc.

So I am trying to imagine what it would be like to go through high school as a pre-pubescent person. Think about it. If it is a person with a penis who identifies female, that person would be a pre-pubescent 'female' amidst developing girls and it would be pretty obvious the person is flat-chested and no sign of femine figure (small waist/larger hips.) So it would seem to me they might not feel that they can relate to any of their peers in terms of physical development, even the one they want to be.

Same thing for a person with a vagina taking this medication to remain pre-pubescent while they decide if they want to be a man physically. Well, all the high school guys are getting the broad shoulders, deep voices, big hands, while they still have the body style of a 12-year-old. They look like neither a young lady nor a young man. Body of a child.

Adolescence is hard enough, without being pre-pubescent all through high school. Would they not simply look, and hence feel somewhat like a child among teenagers? They would fit in with neither they guys nor the girls, physically speaking. That just seems sort of tragic to me. Talk about feeling different/abnormal.

Also, a question: Besides the possible issue of infertility with long-term use of this hormone blocker, for those who say once they stop the medication normal puberty will return... I'd like to ask if it's a guy, will he eventually reach the same amount of growth in physical stature, hand size, broad shoulders and such, as he would have had if he'd never taken the blocker? Or will it be a fraction of what would have been? Has there been anything like identical twin studies where one had the blocker from age 12-18 and the other didn't showing whether or not the recipient 'caught up' in terms of physical development? And if so, how long did it take?

originally posted by: JadeStar

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: JadeStar

Thank you for coming forward. Here's hoping you can open a few minds.

I just had a thought, do you think it would help if I posted pages from my diaries i kept when I was about the age people question here?

I'd say go for it. It would help to show more of your mental state at the time. It would show the thought that was put into your transitioning - that this wasn't just some temporary whim or suggestion put into your head by your parents.

a reply to: JadeStar

Make a great thread.

a reply to: queenofswords

This is just awful

Modernism run amock

a reply to: ItalianDressing

Queer? This isn't about "queers". This is about transgender people.

Oh and BTW meet a transgender woman who is a former US Navy Seal:

en.wikipedia.org...

I'd love for people to try and pick on her.

a reply to: new_here

Oh boo hoo.. They get picked on during high school? Is that it? Nearly most of everyone gets picked on during high school. I doubt you can find a person who wasn't picked on or bullied during high school. And I doubt you can find they didn't have friends who could and or would back them up.

There were gays at my high school. You don't think they got picked on or bullied? They also had lots of friends who had their backs.

These drugs have been used millions of times. You don't think there is evidence of things you talk about, or adverse reactions, or completely the opposite? I'm sure there are risks. Just as there are risks associated with everything. Getting a flu shot has a 1 in 1 million risk of becoming paralyzed.... Getting anesthetic is like 10 in 1 million of death? Maybe there's a 20 in 1 million chance of staying the size of a 12 year old? Parents would be given the information... The child would be given the information.

originally posted by: chuck258

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: TruthxIsxInxThexMist

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: TruthxIsxInxThexMist



Oh I see your post got three stars. That's really sad.

7 stars actually.

Means I'm right and standing up for what is right.

No, it just means that 7 other people are just as bigoted as you and agree with you. Stars aren't a measure of accuracy...

Yep, because those who disagree with you must automatically be bigoted.

Get off your high horse with your holier than thou attitude, it makes you just as guilty as you are claiming him to be, that is by the exact definitions, ignorant and bigoted.

Did you read the post I was responding to? It was pretty damn bigoted and therefore anyone who agreed with that post was equally as bigoted. Way to read too far into what I was saying.

a reply to: TruthxIsxInxThexMist

No, it means you're a bigot. Same for those who starred you.

"But I'm not a bigot!"

Yes you are.

"But.."

You are a bigot.

"I'm standing up for what I believe in!"

Your beliefs are bigoted.

"But.. but..."

Yeah, it's a tough pill to swallow. You're a bigot.

You are not a special snowflake. You are not morally just. You are not standing up for anything other than a historical status quo of bigotry. Congratulations, your bigoted beliefs contribute to the sh#ittiest lows humanity is sadly all too capable of reaching.

Threads like these are great for getting the intolerant bigots to come out of the woodwork and reveal themselves for who they really are: small-minded relics of intolerance and inhumanity. Thankfully, you are a dying breed.

originally posted by: ParasuvO

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: chuck258

You assume that children are idiots. Adults really need to stop doing that about children. Children are a LOT smarter than most adults give them credit for. Second, just because a boy hears that it is possible to be attracted to other boys isn't going to make him bi-curious. Then even if it does, he may experiment a little bit and if he is straight will go right back to liking girls. So no big deal anyways.

Ya that is what is always spouted.

As if conditions and environment have no sway on a topic.

Not sure what this is supposed to mean as a rebuttal to what I just said.

a reply to: ParasuvO

As if conditions and environment have no sway on a topic.

So you think they can sway you into being gay or being a girl? No amount of swaying will ever turn me gay or turn me into a girl.

a reply to: GetHyped

Careful now, calling that poster and the people who starred his post bigoted may get you called a bigot in return (see the post directly above yours).

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Of course, we're the real bigots for criticizing bigoted beliefs.

Just like people who criticize racist beliefs are the real racists.

Still, this is nothing more than them playing to their crowd. No one with half a brain buys into such laughable "logic". And again, thankfully they are a dying breed.

a reply to: GetHyped

I DO believe that is point number 4 from this list.