Serious Question: Why are so Many People Afraid/Unaccepting of Transgender People?

originally posted by: TrappedPrincess
Pat Robettson whaaa...my head just almost exploded lola reply to: Cuervo

Yeah, mine too. I never thought I would cite Pat Robertson in defense of my life. My in-laws are 700 Club fans so this will come in handy when we finally break it to them.

a reply to: Seamrog

It's not mutilation.. it's merely removal..
Has Angelina Jolie mutilated her body, or has she removed members thereof?

Removal is the term you are looking for;


Also, do not put so much faith in the corporate medical /psychiatric industry , after all, they believe that people who drink too much coffee have a "mental disorder".. Psychiatric institutions are are also nonsense..

You can look that up by the way, it is in the new DMSR IV or V (Psychiatric Manual)

a reply to: Seamrog

If i am being honest, I can't be sure I believe you read any study, or know what is contained therein. The talking points you embrace boil down to "they're crazy, and thats my opinion". When challenged to provide evidence....you provide a cited reference that for all I know you pulled from the bibliography section of Wikipedia.

"its in there" isn't discussion. Its a jettison of the burden of proof that is carried with your assertions.

I have already expressly stated that some folks who are transgendered are mentally ill. So I am not sure what you think my ideology is. In essence you and I aren't very far apart. The only difference is one of us says what they have to say in the most abrasive and rude manner possible.

Not that I'm complaining but when people like that come around I do truly start to kind of wonder who, what and why? I do hope that having someone like Mr Robertson who is an esteemed member in that community does help them to understand and accept you.a reply to: Cuervo

I have met some very bright intelligent students at universities who much like philosophers, are able to healthily decide and determine that they wish to have an operation. There is no psychological problem or mental illness; These are bright minds understanding their choices and decisions, these are people with great depth who understand the process of physical transcendence- thinking above the physical realm is not difficult for everyone..

a reply to: tony9802

Thats a very interesting thought to think about..

a reply to: MystikMushroom

My complaint is not against people struggling with identity issues. They have my empathy, though I may not condone their behavior or choices.

What irritates me is the nation-wide campaign of denial, enabling, and excusing of self-destructive behavior and inappropriate displays of sexuality, in the name of making

a reply to: Seamrog

You know continually failing to address the fact that the study directly says that it shouldn't be used to say what you are saying isn't going to make that point go away.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Here's the study in question bfft. Study.

I have also pointed out several times to seamrog, but he doesn't want to acknowledge it, the following is in the Discussion part of the study:

For the purpose of evaluating the safety of sex reassignment in terms of morbidity and mortality, however, it is reasonable to compare sex reassigned persons with matched population controls. The caveat with this design is that transsexual persons before sex reassignment might differ from healthy controls (although this bias can be statistically corrected for by adjusting for baseline differences). It is therefore important to note that the current study is only informative with respect to transsexuals persons health after sex reassignment; no inferences can be drawn as to the effectiveness of sex reassignment as a treatment for transsexualism. In other words, the results should not be interpreted such as sex reassignment per se increases morbidity and mortality. Things might have been even worse without sex reassignment. As an analogy, similar studies have found increased somatic morbidity, suicide rate, and overall mortality for patients treated for bipolar disorder and schizophrenia.[39], [40] This is important information, but it does not follow that mood stabilizing treatment or antipsychotic treatment is the culprit.

I added the bold. The study doesn't really account for mortality and morbidity rates among pre-op transgenders and just says that post-op transgenders have a higher mortality and morbidity rate than non-transgenders. This of course could be due to past trauma. The study clearly admits this in the Discussion part, yet seamrog seems to think it is case closed.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

The fact is, many people with alternate sexual preferences WANT to force you to watch their movie

They do?
How do they force you? Is it like in A Clockwork Orange?

By putting it out there, in people's faces instead of keeping their sexual preferences to themselves like most people do. I don't walk down the street, post, etc. what my preferences. If they would keep their preferences to themselves and to friends that give a crap, you wouldn't see anywhere near the amount of anti-whatever you do today. But that isn't the agenda...is it?

originally posted by: OpenMindedRealist
a reply to: MystikMushroom


What irritates me is the....inappropriate displays of sexuality..

I do not think that the TG community or the LGBT community shows inappropriate displays of sexuality.. depending on the region, there are parades and festivals that may take place once or twice a year for as long as a week perhaps, where people might let loose a bit, but when talking about "inappropriate displays of sexuality," I suggest you take a look at what is on standard television, and recognize that heterosexual sexuality even on mainstream TV but especially in movies, is entirely at times, most inappropriate, and frequently obscene.. Nowadays I'm afraid of watching certain movies because the content might be too violent or explicit in ways that I'm unwilling to tolerate..and that is heterosexual content..no "anomally," or "obscenity," there?

Let's not make these generalized statements then about inappropriate sexual displays by TG's or LGBT's when those heterosexual displays are in your face(!) in every way imaginable on basic 1-13 channel TV.. look at music videos..those are sometimes even scarier..

originally posted by: TopSecretAbove
Its disturbing. I'll treat ya like everyone else but it's naturally disturbing. Why can't some people accept their gender..

You made an EXCELLENT point..."naturally disturbing". Much like some people don't like spiders. Not that they were ever bit, or actually scared of them. They are just not "natural" looking, acting, etc.

I would say it is natural to feel a bit creeped out by something so unnatural as "not being male or female".

a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

I'm not sure you know what the definition of "natural" is if you are describing spiders as unnatural... Why does this argument of "naturalness" even come up? What exactly IS natural and what isn't? To me, people who put out this argument are really saying, "it's not the majority, therefore I don't like it."

Questioning the ethics of a group promoting highly questionable surgery (I have already posted the research) that doesn't fix gender identity issues, wanting to tell children about it and attempting imposing shared public bathrooms is not discrimination. Just the same as questioning the erosion of traditional white European Christian values (upon which our culture and laws are based) isn't racism. Recognising and accepting our laws as being rooted in Christianity is not advocating belief in the bible, it is recognition of our value systems.

Those of the agenda shoving persuasion attempts at imposing their views on gender identity issues is bullying opinion fascism and name calling those that disagree their opinions is discriminatory and offensive.

Psychiatric research recognises gender identity issues as a disorder. Therefore those expecting their
uneducated opinions as preceding over professional research is contrary to sane and rational logic.

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE

originally posted by: TopSecretAbove
Its disturbing. I'll treat ya like everyone else but it's naturally disturbing. Why can't some people accept their gender..

You made an EXCELLENT point..."naturally disturbing". Much like some people don't like spiders. Not that they were ever bit, or actually scared of them. They are just not "natural" looking, acting, etc.

I would say it is natural to feel a bit creeped out by something so unnatural as "not being male or female".

So... if you liken trandgender folks to spiders in their capacity to be "natural", then you are essentially admitting that, yes, transgender people are natural but I've been influenced to think they aren't.

Of the children I've been around (including my own), the ones who don't watch a lot of tv also view spiders with the same regard as transgender folk; with curiosity and without fear.

I've never met a kid who naturally thought spiders were creepy without being told they are and I've never met a kid who thinks transgender people are anything other than funny and an object of curiosity. It's not until children see drag queens (transvestites, mind you; not people who transition) and media portrayal of men-in-dresses that children think they are unnatural or weird just like it's not until children read bedtime stories about scary spiders or see their parents freak out about them that they are afraid of them.

So a naturally occurring biologic organism i.e. a spider that exists all around us (most times unnoticed) in both natural and urban environments in nature is not natural looking? Does it look as if it came from space? Have you been to space? a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

I think it's a growing fear of complexity.

IMO the digital age since the mid-90s is helping humans realize (even if they dislike it) that life is, and always has been, more than 'this' way or 'that' way, and that realization is speeding up - a cause for all or most of the global discord. It's like we're being forced to open our eyes to the reality of never-ceasing complexity, building and building, within not only human beings and their civilizations but the planet and the universe around us and how very little we have control over any of it. It's rocking the boat (an understatement) and scaring humans that are uncomfortable with anything that doesn't fit cultural and/or religious programming, something also very old and rigid and defiant of the world around it, that's becoming increasingly translucent and weak - it's hardening like a corpse as people harden into their ways, becoming increasingly irrational and afraid, because they know they can't stop time.

I think Terence McKenna was right about the novelty theory and how close our species is - pushing on some barrier that is a thresh-hold to a cultural/technological singularity that's been ramping up our entire history that our religions and very minds have felt in certain ways for quite some time now, and I believe he would have a great deal to say and write about if he were still alive today about everything that's unfolding. He let the 2012 craze get the best of him but he felt that we were approaching this window of time that would be riddled with insurmountable complexification. I really think he was right and that we're seeing more and more of what that phenomenon is actually about - a window of time that reveals gross novelty and how it does not stop and how it would start changing EVERYTHING as we come to terms with it the best we can (or not at all) - for better or worse.

As far as the topic again, it IS fear IMO - fear of the natural change and complexity that comes from the universe and time - like an engine constantly producing 'stuff' and the 'stuff', and how it manifests in humans and the world, is getting harder and harder to ignore. It's just freaking people out and they don't know how to stop it - because they can't - so it's creating more complexity in the form of rabble and noise and discord.

It's almost beautiful in a way - and it can be unnerving because it creates so much fear and violence and insanity - a never-ceasing soup of 'who knows what's next' that just keeps coming and coming - and will continue too long after the very face of humanity has changed as the years continue to pass.

*sigh* If I had to cut through the layers, boil everything down and reduce this whole thing to its simplest parts it's this:

Fear.

Fear that these people aren't like them. You can wrap it up in a dozen layers of lofty, highly abstract mental constructs -- but that is really what it comes down to at the end of the day.

When you peel back all of the layers and are left with just the emotions behind the thoughts and arguments -- there really only is fear left.

As I said, this is why we aren't ready for alien life. We can't even get over other humans wanting to change their gender, let alone an entirely new species from another planet. We fight endless wars over who's "God" is better. We discriminate against other people because of their skin color or how they talk.

I'd fly right on by Earth if i was an alien. There's more to a human being than their outward appearance and gender.

a reply to: Cuervo

There are study's on why you might just be wrong generally speaking.

en.m.wikipedia.org...

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

I'm not sure you know what the definition of "natural" is if you are describing spiders as unnatural... Why does this argument of "naturalness" even come up? What exactly IS natural and what isn't? To me, people who put out this argument are really saying, "it's not the majority, therefore I don't like it."

Natural is actually quite relative.. and entirely subjective.. what is natural to one individual is not necessarily natural to another..

I'll try to give an example: some women might feel that it's natural for men to grope, stare, salivate even after them..some women..
and then there's another group of women who feel that it's entirely unnatural for men to grope, stare and so on, in obvious and distateful manner..

To one gal that's just natural, the male gender just behaves that way..To another gal, it's entirely unnatural behavior, behavior that crosses an ethical line, and that cannot co-exist comfortably generally in society with her type..

Each gal has her own notion of natural..

Here's another example:

One guy likes to wear his hair long or longer generally than most.. that's natural and comfortable for him..
For another guy wearing his hair short, cropped, is the only way to go.. on the male gender, long hair is unnatural.. it's all a matter of preference
I suppose..

Natural vs. unnatural.. it's all a matter of opinion..so long as no one is breaking any laws..