NLBS #48: The United States Is Not, And Never Was, A Christian Nation

For some reason this clip comes to mind from

Whistle Down the Wind ... an old British classic

"It isn't Jesus...it's just a fella."

a reply to: mOjOm

What laws reflecting religious tenants are you talking about??? Like don't kill, or steal, or bang your neighbors wife???

Haha, Lady Liberty has gone to bed with many, many other's to whom she was never married. Adultery and fornication aren't illegal in the United States.

Also, the Corporation of The United States of America couldn't have held any religious beliefs, because corporations weren't ruled as "people" until just recently, and weren't ruled as able to own "closely held religious beliefs" until last year!

In the meantime, The Corporation of The United States of America broke the Ten Commandments, stole its land from the Native Americans and killed them. Then encouraged a robust economy on the bases of a population of "Joneses" lusting after their neighbors stuff, wanting the same or more, faster, bigger and better.

The very first act of Congress was passing out bibles...
Statue of Moses at the Supreme court.
Bibles scripture all up the steps on the Washington Monument.The steps are no longer used to preserve the history.
Not one single President in U.S. history is an atheist and call themselmes deist and christians.
Got christian history fighting with atheist in America.

Somehow we have zero christian heritage born out of this country from christian men and women.

Thrainwreck of stupdity continues to get more and more laughable.

a reply to: mOjOm

Witchcraft is a real religion not a rabbits foot but I agree with your comment about the ten commandments.

originally posted by: Jobeycool
The very first act of Congress was passing out bibles...

False.

No, Mr. Beck, Congress Did Not Print a Bible for the Use of Schools

There are many versions of this story floating around, all worded to mislead that Congress either requested the printing of the Bibles, granted Aitken permission to print them, contracted him to print them, paid for the printing, or had Bibles printed for the use of schools. Congress did none of these things. All they did was grant one of several requests made by Aitken by having their chaplains examine his work, and allowing him to publish their resolution stating that, based on the chaplains' report, they were satisfied that his edition was accurate. The words "a neat edition of the Holy Scriptures for the use of schools" are taken from a letter written by Aitken,(8) not the resolution of Congress.

The actual resolution is edited in various ways. The purpose of this editing is to omit that Congress also had a secular reason for recommending Aitken's Bible, and, in most cases, to turn the resolution into a recommendation of the Bible itself, rather than a recommendation of the accuracy of Aitken's work.

Doctored resolution for Christian apologists:

"Congress 'highly approve the pious and laudable undertaking of Mr. Aitken, as subservient to the interest of religion ... in this country, and ... they recommend this edition of the Bible to the inhabitants of the United States.'"

The ACTUAL resolution in question:

Whereupon, Resolved, That the United States in Congress assembled, highly approve the pious and laudable undertaking of Mr. Aitken, as subservient to the interest of religion as well as an instance of the progress of arts in this country, and being satisfied from the above report, of his care and accuracy in the execution of the work, they recommend this edition of the Bible to the inhabitants of the United States, and hereby authorise him to publish this recommendation in the manner he shall think proper.(9)

The secular benefit of this resolution, omitted by Hutson and others, was that it acknowledged "an instance of the progress of arts in this country." Publicizing the accuracy of this Bible was a great way for Congress to promote the American printing industry.

Statue of Moses at the Supreme court.
Bibles scripture all up the steps on the Washington Monument.The steps are no longer used to preserve the history.

National Capital

The representations of Moses described above both present him in a context in which he is depicted as one of several historical exemplars of lawgivers, not as a religious figure. (This is why, for example, the Supreme Court of the United States in 2003 rejected appeals to overturn a decision ordering the removal of a monument to the Ten Commandments from an Alabama courthouse: they ruled that the monument did not present the Ten Commandments in a context other than as quotations of Biblical verse and was therefore deemed an unconstitutional state endorsement of religion.)
The depiction referred to here is a sculpture entitled "Justice the Guardian of Liberty" by Hermon A. McNeil, which appears on the eastern pediment of the Supreme Court building. (The eastern pediment is the back of the Supreme Court building, so this sculpture is not something one would see "walking up the steps to the building which houses the Supreme Court." The front entrance is on the western side.) The sculpture was intended to be a symbolic representation of three of the Eastern civilizations from which our laws were derived, personified by the figures of three great lawgivers: Moses, Confucius, and Solon (surrounded by several allegorical figures representing a variety of legal themes):

McNeil described the symbolism of his work thusly:
Law as an element of civilization was normally and naturally derived or inherited in this country from former civilizations. The "Eastern Pediment" of the Supreme Court Building suggests therefore the treatment of such fundamental laws and precepts as are derived from the East. Moses, Confucius and Solon are chosen as representing three great civilizations and form the central group of this Pediment.

The two other lawgiver figures (Confucius and Solon) are not "facing [the] one in the middle" (i.e., Moses) as claimed above — all three of the lawgivers are depicted in full frontal views, facing forward. (The allegorical figures who flank the three lawgivers are indeed facing towards the middle, but they are looking in the direction of all three men, not just Moses.) The two tablets Moses holds in his arms are blank, without inscription.

Not one single President in U.S. history is an atheist and call themselmes deist and christians.

That has more to do with Christians being intolerant voting wise towards non-Christians. It isn't illegal, thus we have only had Christian Presidents. Heck the backlash for the only Catholic President we ever had was HUGE.

Got christian history fighting with atheist in America.

Well if Christians wouldn't invent their own history this wouldn't be going on.

Somehow we have zero christian heritage born out of this country from christian men and women.

That's because your heritage is in the middle east. This is a secular nation that just happens to contain a lot of Christians not a Christian nation.

Thrainwreck of stupdity continues to get more and more laughable.

It certainly does. Your post is a good example of it.

originally posted by: radarloveguy
a reply to: seagull

"That's what the dinosaurs said"

- NOAH -

Surly you're not suggesting that the dinosaurs were destroyed by god because they didn't follow the ten commandments.
Yeah your contributions to the thread are revolutionary.

a reply to: AutumnWitch657

I would venture to guess that most christians of today in this country have disobeyed the ten commandments since one of those commandments is to keep the sabbath holy as a day of rest. If you read the scriptures where God orders this, you will find his reason for it, it was to set his people apart from those surrounding them who mainly worshipped the sun on sunday. the first day of the week.
and well if you do a little research into it, you will find that the reasoning of the pope that changed the sabbath to sunday.... mainly to prove he had the power to do so... at least that was what he said basically. it probably had more to do with gaining new converts, the same reason why so many of our christmas and easter traditions are a mixture of christian and pagan traditions.

Really ?

What religion did these guys claim ?

Founders

I not saying that America in 2015 is a Christian nation. But if you look at it's leaders and what the majority of it's population professed religion has been since confederation, you can't say it "Never" was.

I agree today is a different story, but we can't ignore the past history.

It's like saying the Roman empire was never a pagan empire.

a reply to: Blue_Jay33

The Roman Empire had a state sponsored religion. The United States never did. That is forbidden by the US Constitution.

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic
a reply to: theNLBS

Fantastic job! If only the founding fathers' desires for this country would have prevailed to today. There are so many laws based in religion now, it would be nearly impossible to root them out. Thank you, Hobby Lobby...

Haha. Yea, it started long before hobby lobby, but they do seem the poster child these days for all those who disagree on the topic, aren't they?

a reply to: guitarplayer

However the preamble of the nation as a whole does not mention god.

We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquillity, provide for the common defence, prominent the general welfare, and insure the blessings of liberty, to ourselves and our prosperity do ordain and establish this constitution of the United States of America.

a reply to: windword

The Roman Empire had two systems... during its rise, ALL religions were allowed, but its fall began when Constantine made Christianity the state religion.

originally posted by: Blue_Jay33
Really ?

What religion did these guys claim ?

Founders

First, watch the video. It answers your question. Second, read the thread.

a reply to: Jobeycool

Statue of Moses at the Supreme court.

Be careful when drawing conclusions based on art in historic buildings or you may not like the implications.

Housed in the Library of Congress (Thomas Jefferson Building) is Thomas Jefferson's own copy of the Quran signed by him. Carved into the marble frieze of the US Supreme Court Building, is the picture of the Quran itself. This video shows all this and how Islam had influenced our founding fathers.

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: AutumnWitch657

I would venture to guess that most christians of today in this country have disobeyed the ten commandments since one of those commandments is to keep the sabbath holy as a day of rest. If you read the scriptures where God orders this, you will find his reason for it, it was to set his people apart from those surrounding them who mainly worshipped the sun on sunday. the first day of the week.
and well if you do a little research into it, you will find that the reasoning of the pope that changed the sabbath to sunday.... mainly to prove he had the power to do so... at least that was what he said basically. it probably had more to do with gaining new converts, the same reason why so many of our christmas and easter traditions are a mixture of christian and pagan traditions.

We don't need to use religious beliefs to find hypocrites and rule-breakers. I'm certain that you, nor I, or anyone else in this forum is perfect or the 'best' person all the time, though we generally try to uphold the rules, laws and common decency....we fail at that, it's human nature - but that doesn't make us 'wrong' to keep trying, does it?

Religion doesn't make *anyone* perfect, nor does trying to tear down a set of rules people make an effort with to be better people. Attacking religion or those who are trying to be better people (within themselves, not a bragging sort of way) - doesn't make the person of criticizing any better than those they would point the finger at...and yes, I realize that I too am a hypocrite. Anyone who says they are hypocrite free, is either lying, or a !@#% fool.

originally posted by: Blue_Jay33

I agree today is a different story, but we can't ignore the past history.

That is the point this thread and video are trying to get across. Christians are ignoring past history and trying to interject their own history as reality.

Any mention of God in any doctrine for America never mentions Jesus. The centerpiece of Christianity. God doesn't mean Jesus. Zeus is a God, Neptune is a God, Keridwen is a God, pan is a God, Osiris is a God , Ptah is a God.

a reply to: dawnstar

Oh I guess that answeres the question about God destroying the dinosaurs. They didn't go to church. . If I'd asked how much 2+2 is and you said weasel you could not be more off point from my question.
But thanks for coming.

a reply to: greencmp

I'd never actually seen that proposed seal before, I'd heard of it, but never seen it. Thanks.

Enlightened Christianity/Deism are, IMHO, virtually the same. At least to my mind...

a reply to: BlackboxInquiry

I agree we are all imperfect beings, including those that we look to for leadership, both in gov't and religion.
Let's take a closer look at the example I have given. God was pretty clear as to why he had made the sabbath the seventh day of the week, it was to set his people apart from others.

So, well there is two options here...
either the pope made a boo boo or he was right and well the christains are also a group that god's people should be set apart from and it doesn't matter to me which way you believe here. it's the first possibility that I want to focus on.

if he was wrong to do this well he had enough power for force all the christians to accept this error. and well the result now is that if you ask a jew what day the sabbath is, they will tell you it's from sundown friday to sundown saturday. if you as a Muslim he will give you the same answer! But if you ask a christian, well you may or may not get that answer. Does God really care what day the Christians set aside for him at this point, I kind of doubt it but well you might want to ask him if you are concerned since I don't speak for him.

I kind of get the sense that when people start claiming that the US is a christian nation founded on Christian values what they are saying is that they believe that their christian values should be what is guiding the civil governments. and well one should consider that not all believe the same things, even amoung the christians. and well I imagine that their were plenty of christians back then that changing the sabbath was something that wasn't right and were force to accept what they believed was an error or risk the wrath of the pope's armies.

When gov't and religion become one then the errors that are made are embedded into the laws and remain a very long time. it's only when they are not one and people have the freedom to evaluate the beliefs and listen to their own heart that we can decide what is true and what was errors, and what serves us now and what no longer does. This is how religions evolve.