NLBS #48: The United States Is Not, And Never Was, A Christian Nation

Pics or it didn't happen...

a reply to: WakeUpBeer

Again God....it doesn't say Jesus.

a reply to: AutumnWitch657

You say that like it should be acceptable to have god there just because god may be non-denominational. By pretending that "God" in this context is beyond Christianity (it isn't, we all know that the god referenced in those quotes is the Christian god) you are STILL advocating religion at the detriment of others. What about atheists, agnostics, or spiritualists that don't believe in a god?

a reply to: seagull
The separation of church and state has been distorted as well.

They were against a Govt backed/created church, like the Church of England.

originally posted by: macman
They were against a Govt backed/created church, like the Church of England.

It was more than that, much more.

Did you watch the video? Did you see the part about George Washington's letter to a Baptist-only local government that was formed in Virginia?

a reply to: theNLBS

So it's just a Deist one. Cool.

What's the difference?

a reply to: theNLBS

Hey! This is NOT what Glenn Beck told me!

originally posted by: Gorman91
So it's just a Deist one. Cool.
What's the difference?

Diests typically reject the notion that a "supreme being" would bother interacting with us mere mortals.

I tend to think most of the founding fathers were practicing Christians. But as mentioned in the video, were of an ethical calibre not seen today.

originally posted by: masqua
a reply to: windword

The Roman Empire had two systems... during its rise, ALL religions were allowed, but its fall began when Constantine made Christianity the state religion.

You may be right. I don't feel like researching right now, but, I thought that the Jews were taxed and persecuted for refusing to bow to the Roman deities or recognize the divinity of the Caesars. They, and the early Christians I believe, were called "atheists" for denying the Roman Gods.

I could be wrong.

originally posted by: SkepticOverlord
...an ethical calibre not seen today.

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is what it all boils down to.

a reply to: SkepticOverlord

But as mentioned in the video, were of an ethical calibre not seen today.

More's the pity. But only too damned true.

Haven't had one of even remotely their calibre since, maybe, Theodore Roosevelt. More likely, Abraham Lincoln.

a few things:

a majority of the founding fathers were not deists, they were devout in their beliefs and even the more "secular" ones still had faith in an active God. it takes about two seconds of digging to figure this out.

the popular thought soon after our founding is that the morals of religion were helpful to our nation. the separation of church and state language came from Jefferson in a letter to a denomination that was fearful of an 'official religion' in a sense of America.

in no founding documents, amendments, etc. is the phrase "separation of church and state" used - and even when it was in a letter it was NOT the context which is constantly cited today.

I know there are a lot of people SUPER eager to downplay the Christian roots of our nation, I have yet to figure out why. Maybe it makes faithless people feel better that the founders of our nation, extremely smart gifted people, were not religious. How could someone who believes in something as stupid as a living God do such great things? etc. etc.

never knew about that book "the man nobody knows" very interesting stuff there

a reply to: radarloveguy Evil clown thing, I love that. Most 'mericans would probably think we are biting the hand that feeds us. So glad I can live under grace.

I just don't understand how people could think that this is a Christian nation. Separation of church and state would make that impossible.

originally posted by: SkepticOverlord

originally posted by: Gorman91
So it's just a Deist one. Cool.
What's the difference?

Diests typically reject the notion that a "supreme being" would bother interacting with us mere mortals.

I tend to think most of the founding fathers were practicing Christians. But as mentioned in the video, were of an ethical calibre not seen today.

perhaps they felt it was safer to simply let the populace believe they were christians. if they had been anything else, the chances of them putting into effect their collective ideology would have been that much more difficult.

how much of their ethical caliber do you think could (or should) be credited to their spirituality?

originally posted by: LiberLegit
in no founding documents, amendments, etc. is the phrase "separation of church and state" used - and even when it was in a letter it was NOT the context which is constantly cited today.

You didn't watch the video?

James Madison, the person most-responsible for getting all the states to ratify the constitution, said the following while President, putting it on the official record: "The civil government functions with complete success by the total separation of the Church from the State.”

And the US senate, eight years after ratifying the constitution, unanimously voted to approve this: "the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion."




This is getting increasingly irritating, not just with the NLBS videos, but with just about any thread on ATS that is either about a video, or dedicated to a video (like this one), where people inject commentary without the proper context of having watched the video.

Where do the Pilgrim Fathers fit into all this in the founding of a nation. Who are the other players/migrants who were the forefathers ...
Genuine question to those with a handle on a history

Pilgrims is a name commonly applied to early settlers of the Plymouth Colony in present-day Plymouth, Massachusetts, United States, with the men commonly called Pilgrim Fathers. The Pilgrims' leadership came from the religious congregations of Brownist English Dissenters who had fled the volatile political environment in England for the relative calm and tolerance of 16th–17th century Holland in the Netherlands. The Pilgrims held similar Calvinist religious beliefs to the Puritans but unlike many Puritans, maintained that their congregations needed to be separated from the English state church. Concerned with losing their cultural identity, the group later arranged with English investors to establish a new colony in North America. The colony, established in 1620, became the second successful English settlement (after the founding of Jamestown, Virginia, in 1607) and later the oldest continuously inhabited English settlement in what was to become the United States of America. The Pilgrims' modern popular story of seeking "religious freedom" has become a central theme of the history and culture of the United States. (As stated above they already had that religious freedom in Netherlands but wanted to maintain their English cultural identity.)

en.wikipedia.org...

a reply to: WhiteHat Doesn't the bible say to not swear any oaths, let your yes be yes and no be no? I am confused.

originally posted by: TzarChasm
perhaps they felt it was safer to simply let the populace believe they were christians. if they had been anything else, the chances of them putting into effect their collective ideology would have been that much more difficult.

No, there's significant historical record to indicate the majority of the founding fathers were devout Christians.

Thomas Jefferson is clearly not a Christian. John Adams regularly questioned the validity of the Christian religion. And Franklin was clearly on the fence.

a reply to: artistpoet

A good example, but best give it up.
There are powers at play here that dare not be mentioned as they have the control.