Freddie Gray had spinal surgery a week before the arrest ??

a reply to: Sremmos80

What I guess I don't understand, is why they didn't put him in a seat.. is it that they couldn't? I think most cops in most cities always try and get people in a seated position..

I'll be honest I don't know how they would deal with someone who they couldn't get seated - as I have never seen that before.. I have seen people arrested.. but always at one point they cooperate to the point of sitting and buckling in..

a reply to: windword

If this is all true, then yes it would seem like suicide, if Gray was well aware of how delicate his injury was. What motive would Gray have to kill himself? Was this arrest going to put him behind bars for a long enough time for Gray to justify killing himself at that moment? Still seems unlikely...

a reply to: OpinionatedB

Well if they want to give ya a rough ride to the booking center then it makes sense to not buckle you.

Cause yes I agree, cops will usually try and secure you.

They should want to so you can cause further harm to your self, last time I checked they are suppose ensure you don't.

originally posted by: FyreByrd
a reply to: 8675309jenny

I took a look at your Source. It's all about 'unnamed' sources told them about 'allegedly', yadda, yadda...

That's one issue, and if true, reliable sources will come forward with the information during the investigation.

The second issue this site conflates with his alleged health history, seems to be his criminal (though they show only civil cases) history which is completely irrelevant to the treatment he received from police officers.

The source is just justifying the unjustifiable actions of the police.

I make no claims as o the veracity of the source. It remains pure conjecture at this point, and it's now FOUR hours past their 6pm Wed. promise to "blow the case wide open". Obviously no one has ever heard of this 'Fourth Estate" newsgroup, so as I mentioned earlier I'm skeptical.

Also notice that my thread was not titled as a statement, but as a question. The story popped up when I searched google news for Freddie Gray spine injury this morning.

It seems now that the settlement was for a lawsuit concerning lead paint poisoning when he and his sister were children. Which doesn't mean the story is debunked, but badly sourced. If he indeed did have a recent neck surgery, this 'Fourth Estate' story is just muddying the waters by failing to back up their claims at this point!

Shame on them.



.

originally posted by: game over man

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: game over man
The leaked document is a statement from a unnamed prisoner....easily could of cut a deal to get out of jail, to be part of the cover up.

True. That is very possible. Or he could be telling the truth.

What would be the point for him to cooperate anyway? Would that other passenger have to make a statement regardless?

Because he's going to be asked what he saw and heard as part of the investigation. Quite often when one is asked what one heard, one will tell you. Why shouldn't he? It's no skin off his nose.

originally posted by: ANNED
From what i read here he has had two major payouts from lawsuits over injuries from accidents.

Could he have been trying to set up third by say ramming he head into the wall of the paddy wagon while being transported.

Then blaming the cops.

But because he was on crack and/or meth over did it and fatally broke his own neck.

As a EMT i ran into a few of what we called Professional accident victims.
And they would sue anyone even EMTs.

www.dmv.org...
www.abbynews.com...
www.youtube.com...

Just as i was writing this post the TV news reported that the other prisoner in the paddy wagon with gray claims he was throwing him self around the van trying to injure himself so he could blame the cops.

i am now thinking we have another Michal brown type case where what really happened is nothing like what people claimed happened.

Even if the official report Friday shows Gray purposely injured himself as the other prisoner says, all the Libs and cop haters
will cry coverup because they have already made up their minds to impugn the cops, because you know, they think all cops are bad. It's a lose-lose situation for Baltimore LEOs.

a reply to: game over man

I don't think it would have been suicide. Most of these guys who are in and out of prison really don't mind prison so much. For some of them, they go back on purpose.

Even if this was a third times a charm possibility, I don't see someone like this that determined to avoid prison

originally posted by: Snarl
a reply to: Skadi_the_Evil_Elf

The Coroner's Report will be a clincher. It's not often you'll see a medical professional telling lies to cover someone else's eff-up. And, coroners are typically very deliberate/OCD types, based on my personal experiences.

The repeat autopsies in the Mike Brown case emphasize my point above. You can bet the question of a second exam was foremost in the mind of this guy.

Indeed. That's why I want to see it when it comes out.

This statement by the other prisoner confuses things even more. He could be telling the truth as he knew it, or was told to say that in the report by the cops. If Freddy had been throwing himself around in the back like the other guy states, he would also have more than just that injury. So whatever angle you look at it from, its getting harder to discern the truth.

a reply to: hounddoghowlie

How can you sit with your feet at your back?

I am not talking with cuffs in front of you but behind you.

a reply to: game over man

It doesn't mean he intended suicide, it could have very well been him looking for another pay out. Also could have been him trying to stick it to the officers knowing he could probably sue them later. If reports are true he has won at least one lawsuit possibly others however that seemed unclear to me. Either way there are lots of reason this could have happened. None of them have been shown to clearly be THE REASON and they won't until the trial. You guys have speculated on enough of these types of events to know this by now. We won't even have a chance to see what real factual evidence they have until trial time. Even then it could be seal or blocked from the media although I believe in this case it won't be due to how much of the nation is watching.

originally posted by: game over man
a reply to: windword

If this is all true, then yes it would seem like suicide, if Gray was well aware of how delicate his injury was. What motive would Gray have to kill himself? Was this arrest going to put him behind bars for a long enough time for Gray to justify killing himself at that moment? Still seems unlikely...

It's unlikely that Gray could have, in that small of space, deliberately caused the injuries he's reported to have.

According to an autopsy, Gray died from an injury that severed his spine. There were no indications of force or bruising, police said, and they do not know when or how his spine was severed. The family has said that Gray suffered three fractured vertebrae and that his larynx was crushed. The union insisted that none of the officers did anything criminal, and it warned against a rush to judgment.

“When Mr. Gray was put in that van, he could talk and he was upset,” Deputy Police Commissioner Jerry Rodriguez said during a televised news conference. “When he was taken out of that van, he could not talk and he could not breathe.”

I wouldn't put it past the police to claim suicide, but no one will ever believe it!

a reply to: UnBreakable

Just like all the the cop apologist are eating up the prisoner that could not see him and this prior neck surgery claim.

originally posted by: OpinionatedB
a reply to: game over man

I don't think it would have been suicide. Most of these guys who are in and out of prison really don't mind prison so much. For some of them, they go back on purpose.

Even if this was a third times a charm possibility, I don't see someone like this that determined to avoid prison

I don't think it was suicide and I don't think that the article implies that. Prisoners often thrash about because they are simply pissed. Or, as suggested, he could have been trying to make himself look beat so he could sue/claim brutality. There are resaons for this other than suicide and, given his rap sheet and what his arrest was for, I don't think (assuming he was doing it to himself which is only supposition at this point) he was suicidal.

a reply to: NavyDoc

I was simply pointing out the conditions where somone could logically state that his fellow passenger was throwing himself against the walls and not the actions of the driver even without being able to see his fellow passenger.

But you don't know those all those conditions.

How they were being driven is crucial.
If you want to make the assumption it was perfect driving mrs daisy style then that is fine.
Doesn't make it true.

a reply to: Sremmos80

You know what else…it's not too terribly hard to reach around and unbuckle hell I have personally flipped my hands to the front when in a holding cell because I needed to piss and they refused to come let me have my hands free to do so…officer was pretty surprised when he finally did come in. I just smiled at him and said I was fine now and he could finish processing me for the minor pot charge lol. In all seriousness though it seems like your being very disingenuous here and I think your doing it on purpose…I think this because I think your smarter than how your appearing right now. If I'm wrong well I think you should refrain from saying such things until you know about them better cause it makes you look like your being disingenuous on purpose.

Hmmm...here is an interesting project. Does anyone know how those police vans are laid out inside? Anyone have a blueprint? I imagine the investigators will likely already have one. If we knew the layout inside. how things are set up, where suspects sit and the cops sit.

originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: UnBreakable

Just like all the the cop apologist are eating up the prisoner that could not see him and this prior neck surgery claim.

But that is a disengenous characterization of the situation. All I've seen is a discussion of the potential ramifications of this new information, not apologetics.

Google is your friend

Baltimore Sun debunks neck injury claim

Baltimore Sun article truth about Freddie Gray's pre-exisitng injury from car accident

The Free Republic website said Wednesday that Gray's "life-ending injuries to his spine may have possibly been the result of spinal and neck surgery that he allegedly received a week before he was arrested." The article also said the injury was a result of a car accident and cited thefourthesate.com as the source of information. The story did not cite any court records.

Free Republic has since removed the story from its website and could not be reached for comment.

No more pre-existing neck injury nonsense....

originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: NavyDoc

I was simply pointing out the conditions where somone could logically state that his fellow passenger was throwing himself against the walls and not the actions of the driver even without being able to see his fellow passenger.

But you don't know those all those conditions.

How they were being driven is crucial.
If you want to make the assumption it was perfect driving mrs daisy style then that is fine.
Doesn't make it true.

But neither does the inverse. You assume they were driving in a manner intended to hurt the passengers but you don't know that either. If the man's testimony was that he didn't think the ride was rough, then that is an interesting piece of information. If fe says the banging happened when the truck was driven straight but not on a curve, that is an interesting piece of information.

a reply to: Sremmos80

I am still catching up...but I agree with you on the so
called witness...
also we do not know that maybe he was flailing in pain...
It was obvious from the video that the police were dragging
him to the van & he was already injured or worse as at least
one leg appeared to not be properly functional.

Edit....Animals can & will flail about in pain...so how does anyone
know the extent of the amount of pain he was in? He had requested
help many times & no one gave it.

Cheers
Ektar