Freddie Gray had spinal surgery a week before the arrest ??

a reply to: texasgirl

Read some earlier posts. One of the witnesses said while he was on his stomach on the pavement, they somehow pulled his feet up in an unnatural position, with his feet up near the back of his head. (like a pretzel) One person reported hearing a "pop".

Of course, possibly this wouldn't have happened to a healthy person, who knows. Maybe it was his recent surgery coming 'undone" somehow. Or maybe they out and out busted his spine. We don't know.

Look a few pages back, and see my post from the newspaper. and even read the link provided. Witnesses are giving descriptions of what they saw. It's very disturbing.

a reply to: OpinionatedB

Yet this bs thread has 42 flags when it is bunk.

That was my point, that both sides are doing the rushing to judgement.
I mostly agree with what you are saying though.

I will say I think the officers are at fault,at the very least negligent, the man was alive and kicking before they tossed him in the van and took him for a ride.

After that, not so much.

a reply to: OpinionatedB

Murder is deliberate and willful. I don't think anyone set out to kill this man.

I don't think it's out of the question at all. If the police were aware that he was injured, regardless of how seriously, and then they deliberately neglected to "seat belt" him in, while being shackled with his arms behind his back and his legs also shackled, then they took him for a "nickle ride", then, yeah, that's murder.

"Nickel Ride" refers to the act of police officers throwing suspects into the back of a police transporter. The suspects are left without restraints and are thrown around due to the reckless driving of the police, who intend to harm the suspect.
www.urbandictionary.com...

So far, the media has reported that Gray was NOT in a seat belt.

a reply to: marg6043


I guess I just don't get how you can break apart like that after being tackled. I was in a game of flag football and one guy got too excited and actually tackled me, ramming me right into the ground. I got up with only a few scrapes and I'm only 5'3" 105 lbs.

Now if Freddie had a previous injury that would make sense to me. (Or if they purposedly stepped on his back, etc...)

a reply to: texasgirl

I agree, but let no forget excessive force been used and that is the root of the problem and the reason the scrutiny is on.

How strong you have to be to break a healthy person neck.

originally posted by: ladyinwaiting
a reply to: texasgirl



Read some earlier posts. One of the witnesses said while he was on his stomach on the pavement, they somehow pulled his feet up in an unnatural position, with his feet up near the back of his head. (like a pretzel) One person reported hearing a "pop".



Of course, possibly this wouldn't have happened to a healthy person, who knows. Maybe it was his recent surgery coming 'undone" somehow. Or maybe they out and out busted his spine. We don't know.



Look a few pages back, and see my post from the newspaper. and even read the link provided. Witnesses are giving descriptions of what they saw. It's very disturbing.

I've read every page (or so I thought) but I must've missed a few posts. This is a fast-paced thread.

I'll go back and look for those witness reports.

originally posted by: marg6043
How strong you have to be to break a healthy person neck.

It is not as easy as they show in the movies.


Erm, I mean I have no idea.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

I tell you, after all, this is going to be a matter of intent.

a reply to: windword

being a former Marine, i gotta say that your wrong in your terminology.
the Navy and Marine Corps call enlisted personal corpsman the Army calls them medics and Air Force calls them paramedics.

a wiki cause like i say it's fast.

Corpsman, a sailor who is trained for providing first aid to members of the US Armed Forces, combat casualty care/trauma care on the battlefield. (This name is only used by the Navy and Marine Corps for the Hospital Corpsmen who serve in either a Navy or Marine billet; other branches use the term medic.)
"4N0X1", is an Air Force paramedic.
"68W", formerly 91W & 91A/B, the Military Occupational Specialty for the United States Army's health care specialist (combat medic).
Medic

and each branch has Medical Officers that are doctors.


a lot of Special Operations, takes it's terminology/ jargon from the army.

a reply to: marg6043

I tell you, after all, this is going to be a matter of intent.

Yep. I hope they're able to get footage of the van on the road, to assess the drivers driving, how he took corners, stopped etc. If it was reckless, that says a lot about intent, imo.

a reply to: marg6043

knowing the full autopsy will be a help.. knowing every single fact will determine what exactly happened. It seems something caused an injury during the take down.. but something else had to have exacerbated it to the point of death.

whether that was simply at that point the van ride, or whether it was something else we don't yet know.

If you get a spinal injury - just a small thing can exacerbate it - even turning your head wrong or bending over to pick something up. Spinal injuries are funny things... and I don't doubt he had back problems prior to being tackled as well. Even having degenerative disk disease can make something that wouldn't hurt a normal person (or at least that wouldn't cause detrimental injury) cause a sufferer a much more serious injury.

I have degenerative disk disease, and have approximately 8 disks in various states of injury from herniated to simply bulging, on top of the screws and metal in my back holding stuff together.. If someone tackled me I would be in the hospital for a very long time.. no doubt about it..

What I would be sad though, would be if he didn't have any prior injury.. that would be a serious case against the cops for excessive force. I think that is necessary to know..

a reply to: hounddoghowlie

Thanks, and it's fine. I just thought I remembered ND sharing experience as a "medic". I don't know why he's so insulted over that, but so be it! LOL! Don't students do "medic" and/or emt type assignments during the training, before their internship?

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: marg6043
How strong you have to be to break a healthy person neck.

It is not as easy as they show in the movies.


Erm, I mean I have no idea.

Yes, it is not very easy to break the neck of a healthy young man and it is nowhere near as easy as they portray in the movies.

However, bolts from the blue do happen. An athlete should not die from a cardiac disrythmia caused by being hit in the chest by a baseball but it does happen.

One cannot rule out anything at this point.

a reply to: windword

I had heard on the news that the police department admits that Gray was not belted in for his ride in the paddy wagon. They said that this amounts to not following department protocol.

From what I have heard on news, Gray's injuries occurred in the van.

When your hands are cuffed behind you and your legs are shackled to your hands, you have no way to protect yourself during the 'nickel ride' (which includes jackrabbit starts, hanging all the turns and slamming on the brakes) making one prone to knee, elbow, head and neck injuries.

He got a nickel ride and it killed him, imo.

a reply to: windword

Now we know that he was hurt before he went into the van and that he was crying in pain so he was denied help while injured.

a reply to: OpinionatedB

If you get a spinal injury - just a small thing can exacerbate it - even turning your head wrong or bending over to pick something up.

Not only that, but he emerged from the van with a crushed larynx! We know he went into the van screaming in pain.

The video I saw ...his legs were NOT functioning right or at least one
of them was not & that video was of the police dragging him to the van.
So I am looking forward to hearing the complete truthful story as there is
too much bunk flying around.

I also have a question...I thought he was arrested for carrying a switch blade?
On another or possibly a few threads on ATS now they keep saying he was
dealing drugs, making it sound as though he would not have been in trouble
with police & not have re injured his surgery had he not been dealing.
I didn't know he was at the moment of arrest...so was he?
Thank you.

Cheers
Ektar

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: hounddoghowlie

Thanks, and it's fine. I just thought I remembered ND sharing experience as a "medic". I don't know why he's so insulted over that, but so be it! LOL! Don't students do "medic" and/or emt type assignments during the training, before their internship?

See, here is where your smarmy dishonesty comes in. The offense was not from "misremembering" someone being a medic or not, but from disparaging and insulting stuff like this:

Oh really? Navy Doc is a Neurologist now? Gee wiz, when did a military medic, who claims to have done a few abortions in the field too, get his doctor's degree in Neurology? Somewhere on an oil barge I guess!

Why do argue over such trivialities? NavyDoc 'aint either!

Is he? Because previously he claimed to have been a "medic", who had later been stationed on a oil platform

So here you are, with deliberate insult and disparagement of another member's education and experience and then you have the gall, the temerity, to slimily claim "I don't know what he's pissed about?"

What a dishonest person.

originally posted by: marg6043
a reply to: texasgirl

I agree, but let no forget excessive force been used and that is the root of the problem and the reason the scrutiny is on.

How strong you have to be to break a healthy person neck.

That's it right there. He was a healthy person if he was running from the cops and managed to out run them for a while.

I read that amongst his injuries, were three shattered vertebrae. The only was this could have happened is after they tackled him. He wouldn't be running otherwise.

Now this crap gets me. Watch the following video:

Link

The autopsy results, according to this, have been released. The police spokesman says the coroners report stated he had no injuries on this body other than the spinal injury. Yet we see numerous videos showing the kid being dragged and in pain up to the police van, with one of his legs apparently injured and dangling. Could have been a strain, could have been a sprain, could have been a number of things, but one thing is for certain: it was an injury the whole country watched. Yet the guy says "no injuries on body other than spine"?!?!?!?!?! It's like when Tariq Aziz was stating on Iraqi national television that there were no American forces in the country, while in the background you watched Baghdad getting bombed and stomped by the invasion force.

So, either the coroner is an idiot, the captain does not know how to read a report, the autopsy was done poorly, or this is a pretty lame public service lie.

originally posted by: Ektar
The video I saw ...his legs were NOT functioning right or at least one
of them was not & that video was of the police dragging him to the van.
So I am looking forward to hearing the complete truthful story as there is
too much bunk flying around.

I also have a question...I thought he was arrested for carrying a switch blade?
On another or possibly a few threads on ATS now they keep saying he was
dealing drugs, making it sound as though he would not have been in trouble
with police & not have re injured his surgery had he not been dealing.
I didn't know he was at the moment of arrest...so was he?
Thank you.

Cheers
Ektar

He did had a history of misdemeanor drug related charges, but nothing else. During this day in question, he was not selling any drugs, or at least none that the cops found. The only thing he had on him illegal was a switchblade (which is pretty standard gear in the 'hood, and used for protection as much as anything else.) It is assumed Freddy, due to his past run ins with the law, saw the cops and freaked out because he had the switchblade, and didn't want another criminal charge, so he ran. Which understandably, aroused the suspicions of the cops and gave them cause to give chase.