Why did God create evil?

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

People are forced into worshiping all kinds of different gods all over the planet even today through indoctrination, where is God now? If those people were forced to believe in a false god, why did God punish them from no fault of their own? Why not rehabilitate them instead of committing genocide against them?

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Would you rehabilitate an ISIS compound or hit them with a hellfire missile?


Latter imo!

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

ISIS has their motives for doing what they do just as did God in the OT. Are they justified on either side? Not in my opinion. God decided to kill babies and animals along with those practicing those rituals, those babies and animals had no part in their worship yet God decided to slaughter them anyways, and even told the Israelites to take women as sex slaves. Not much better than ISIS in my opinion.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: enlightenedservant

I speak about Christianity because it is the religion I am most familiar with. I question Christianity's dogma because the majority of religious on these forums are Christian.

Though your point about Shaytan being punished in Hell on Judgment day is actually true of Christianity as well. The Book of Revelation actually spells out that hell is just a lake of burning sulfur and its only purpose is to punish the devil. Christianity of the middle ages made up the whole "burning in hell tripe". Though that is the dogma of the day, so it's worth questioning.

As for your point about good and evil. I don't agree. Things are judged as evil today that would have been judged as good or benign back in the times of the bible. Things like slavery. How can one determine their goodness or evilness if a few hundred years down the line something they thought was a normal part of life becomes vile and evil?

Like I said earlier, good and evil don't exist. All is just shades of gray.

That clears things up some. Most atheists I've encountered are former Christians who reject the versions of Christianity & the Bible they grew up with. So there's no misunderstanding there.

I guess the issue is that when you attack some things but only have an anti-Christianity or anti-Bible argument, that argument falls flat in the face of other religions. The Qur'an acknowledges slavery/servitude but calls for fair treatment and kindness of them. And directly says that no one should be oppressed. Consequently, the Prophet Muhammad and his companions practiced manumission and freed almost 40,000 slaves. And the Prophet Essa/Isa and his followers rejected slavery altogether, choosing to serve each other instead.

I could refute many of the points you've made throughout this thread regarding God & religion with similar examples. But it wouldn't really serve a purpose because I'm not trying to convert you or anyone else. I'm just trying to show you that many of the things you know or reject about "religion & God" are limited to the Christian depictions of God and those events.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Can't speak for the OT I was just wondering 3NL1GHT3N3D1.
As Muslims we only believe the words of Jesus (PBUH) from the gospels.


& even then, it's a matter of choice whether we want to trust the translation.
Wish I could speak ancient languages...
I can't & King James etc tried to decide for me.


Thanks for the input!

a reply to: Krazysh0t
Yes you are right.

Let me correct that:

God created evil because otherwise the world will not "function".

The Architect - The first matrix I designed was quite naturally perfect, it was a work of art, flawless, sublime. A triumph equaled only by its monumental failure. The inevitability of its doom is as apparent to me now as a consequence of the imperfection inherent in every human being, thus I redesigned it based on your history to more accurately reflect the varying grotesqueries of your nature. However, I was again frustrated by failure. I have since come to understand that the answer eluded me because it required a lesser mind, or perhaps a mind less bound by the parameters of perfection. Thus, the answer was stumbled upon by another, an intuitive program, initially created to investigate certain aspects of the human psyche. If I am the father of the matrix, she would undoubtedly be its mother.

Neo - The Oracle.

The Architect - Please. As I was saying, she stumbled upon a solution whereby nearly 99.9% of all test subjects accepted the program, as long as they were given a choice, even if they were only aware of the choice at a near unconscious level. While this answer functioned, it was obviously fundamentally flawed, thus creating the otherwise contradictory systemic anomaly, that if left unchecked might threaten the system itself. Ergo, those that refused the program, while a minority, if unchecked, would constitute an escalating probability of disaster.

Neo - This is about Zion.

I had to included this in the thread (sorry) to make my point. God had to give free will to every body in order for the world to run smooth. Had to make it imperfect.
Hell is just a way to clean the mess and star all over again.

For me Hell is not a place for punishment, but for purification.

a reply to: enlightenedservant

Crafting a well thought out thread to rebuke the logical loopholes in Islam would take time for me to understand the religion, learn the dogma, then figure out where their beliefs create contradictions. Granted, I'm sure you won't recognize that contradictions exist, but I hypothesize that they do, I just don't know where they are.

a reply to: Abednego

So why is it so much easier to do evil than to do good? Why is there no universal balance? It seems that things are rigged so that everyone will make evil decisions throughout their lives. Some thinking that those decisions, no matter how reprehensible, are 100% justified. Then we include situations where god, in his attempt to correct maligned behavior, makes things worse for humans. Such as the Tower of Babel.

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Can't speak for the OT I was just wondering 3NL1GHT3N3D1.
As Muslims we only believe the words of Jesus (PBUH) from the gospels.


& even then, it's a matter of choice whether we want to trust the translation.
Wish I could speak ancient languages...
I can't & King James etc tried to decide for me.


Thanks for the input!

I'd personally recommend the "Didache" or the "Pe#ta" versions of the New Testament. The Didache tells things without Paul's influence. Many of its teachings are vastly different because it only uses the other Apostles (like the speech at the Last Supper is very different).

And the Pe#ta is controversial to most European derived denominations of Christianity. That's because it is believed to be the version of the New Testament books derived from the originals in Aramaic, before the Greek Jews made their translations.

Mainstream Christianity rejects both of those versions but you should check them out anyway, even if just to get a better idea of the actual views of early Christianity.

EDIT: WOW! It censors the word Pe#ta. That is the name of the Syriac version of the New Testament, it has nothing to do with cuss words. Or maybe you're not supposed to know about this book. Conspiracy???????

It's all one word but is spelled:
Pe sh itta

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: enlightenedservant

Crafting a well thought out thread to rebuke the logical loopholes in Islam would take time for me to understand the religion, learn the dogma, then figure out where their beliefs create contradictions. Granted, I'm sure you won't recognize that contradictions exist, but I hypothesize that they do, I just don't know where they are.

LOL So you admit you don't know anything about the religion but have already concluded that it's wrong? And also that I wouldn't be able to recognize contradictions YOU don't even know exist? Is that how the scientific process works? Well then, kind sir, carry on...


EDIT: Ah, that voice in my head told me not to let this opportunity slip. If you actually want to learn the truth about Islam so you can debate & destroy me, start with the Qur'an itself. Nothing overrules the Qur'an and if something else conflicts with it, the Qur'an is always the correct one. Here's a site that has 5 translations of the Qur'an, all side by side (I prefer the Pickthall translation but to each his own).

HERE YOU GO!!! This way, you won't go read up on some Wahabi nonsense & get the wrong impression of what Islam actually stands for. I won't mind if you call me out w/questions or debate challenges either cuz I'm nice like that

a reply to: enlightenedservant

Thanks enlightened, I'll be sure to check them out as soon as I get a chance!

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: enlightenedservant

Thanks enlightened, I'll be sure to check them out as soon as I get a chance!

No problem. I usually study how a holy book or denomination came about more than the exact teachings of them. You can learn the differences & contradictions a lot easier that way.

a reply to: the2ofusr1

Doesn't work for me. There is no logic. It actually seems a silly excuse to explain a free will that doesn't exist within this system of reality.

BTW, in my other post it should say "without" a positive and negative, rather than "with."

Cheers - Dave

a reply to: bobs_uruncle

It is one of those questions that had me perplexed when ever I had thought about it in the past and I had never heard of this monilism thing until I came across William Craig's talk about it . It does fit within the Christian world view of the faith .

originally posted by: enlightenedservant
originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: enlightenedservant


LOL So you admit you don't know anything about the religion but have already concluded that it's wrong? And also that I wouldn't be able to recognize contradictions YOU don't even know exist? Is that how the scientific process works? Well then, kind sir, carry on...

Does it rely on the belief in a god without evidence? Yes. Is it an organized religion? Yes. It is wrong. The dogma is just the finer details.

EDIT: Ah, that voice in my head told me not to let this opportunity slip. If you actually want to learn the truth about Islam so you can debate & destroy me, start with the Qur'an itself. Nothing overrules the Qur'an and if something else conflicts with it, the Qur'an is always the correct one. Here's a site that has 5 translations of the Qur'an, all side by side (I prefer the Pickthall translation but to each his own).

All good things in time. I learn things in a haphazard way on this website. I've been meaning to get around to Islam since so many seem to question why I don't debate it. Though I have at times tried to argue as vague as possible in reference to religion.

HERE YOU GO!!! This way, you won't go read up on some Wahabi nonsense & get the wrong impression of what Islam actually stands for. I won't mind if you call me out w/questions or debate challenges either cuz I'm nice like that

I'll look into it. Promise.

originally posted by: the2ofusr1
a reply to: bobs_uruncle

It is one of those questions that had me perplexed when ever I had thought about it in the past and I had never heard of this monilism thing until I came across William Craig's talk about it . It does fit within the Christian world view of the faith .

But the Christian religion doesn't make sense either. God knows everything that has been, is and will be (preordained), but you have free will (the ability to change God's plan which is preordained). I mean seriously, c'mon? I may have been born at night, but it wasn't last night. It doesn't make sense.

You have to apply faith in God existing. Then you have to have faith in His plan which is immutable. Then you have to have faith that the two previous things you have faith in totally contradict having faith in free will.

And the icing on the cake, some jesuit priest, yeah, they're trustworthy, explains it as God gave you free will, but he knows what you're gonna do. How is that not preordained, how is it not predetermination?

Sorry, my belief system is a little more logical and based on science. There is a Creator, this is a virtual reality which could be either a physical or purely mental/electrochemical construct. It could be retraining or indoctrination or education or part of a prison sentence. We are here to observe, feel and learn and are simply riders on meat puppet buses. We have no control, we cannot make choices and we certainly don't have free will.

Anyone out there, prove to me you have free will. Not something based on faith or religion, or because some turd in funny hat said so. Show me you can control the individual molecules and subatomic particles in your body, so that you stop aging, never get sick or have an infection, can correct any genetic defects, can regrow limbs, say NO to anyone, anything, any government and have no consequences, etc. When you can do that, you have free will, otherwise, what you think, you think or do, is just the illusion of free will.

Cheers - Dave

a reply to: bobs_uruncle
I agree with you that when we are just strapped to the big wheel turning, no matter which way we twist and turn, the patterns just keep replicating as the laws of this place dictate. So yes, no free will in the manner we like to figure exists.

However, if and when we recognize that which transcends all these patterns, including the whole "machine" that is generating them endlessly like cellular reproduction - then we can be free of this madness. We always have that option, though it requires utter conscious submission to the Reality in and as which we all appear.

originally posted by: bb23108
a reply to: bobs_uruncle
I agree with you that when we are just strapped to the big wheel turning, no matter which way we twist and turn, the patterns just keep replicating as the laws of this place dictate. So yes, no free will in the manner we like to figure exists.

However, if and when we recognize that which transcends all these patterns, including the whole "machine" that is generating them endlessly like cellular reproduction - then we can be free of this madness. We always have that option, though it requires utter conscious submission to the Reality in and as which we all appear.

Actually, I consider this virtual reality a lot like the present fiat currency confidence game. When a high percentage of the people realize their currency and the way it is made is all BS, the system will collapse, because it's a confidence game. If a high majority understand the scam the scam can no longer operate.

I think it's similar with this virtual reality. If a high percentage of whatever we are, our actual minds, realize that this is a confidence game and we lose confidence, we understand that this isn't real, then this virtual reality will collapse. And maybe that's part of the purpose of this exercise, maybe mass enlightenment and the subsequent construct failure are built into the system. Like a fail safe or reboot. Who knows.... we can only guess.

Cheers - Dave

a reply to: bobs_uruncle

Exercising faith is a act of free will .Faith being ,trust in something that can be reasonably believed .

a reply to: Krazysh0t

I'm still waiting for someone to answer why God doesn't punish all the demons in hell for corrupting humans on earth while at the same time mercilessly punishing humans on earth who may not even be guilty of having been corrupted by demons.

He has in a sense. The angels are all locked up in hell till their day of punishment. They then are cast into the lake of spiritual death. So in that respect they are already being punished till their death.

Demons are another matter. Demons are not angels. Demons are the spirits of procreated heavenly and terrestrial seed. Neither angel or man and not created by God. Even by erasing all evil creatures would not erase sin from the minds of
creation. Evil is a spirit of knowledge to sin. It has already been released to all creation.