Feminists request use of "jazz hands" rather than clapping to avoid triggering "anxiety" [OP UPD

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: InTheLight

Stay on topic.

I was, and so should you...go back to page 1 and start over.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: AgentSmith

Yes, okay. I did a search and did see that one out of three requests DID use the term "Feminist Jazz Hand". Spoke too soon-APOLOGIES!

Having done my fair share of community theater, I know what Jazz Hands are. I have no idea what "feminist" Jazz Hands are, though. Pretty sure there's no such thing. It sounds to me like someone what getting sarcastic with adjectives in their tweets.

"Feminist Jazz Hands"
That will either be my next tattoo or my epitaph.
That's just great...

a reply to: InTheLight

I have anxiety issues. I take medication for it (Celexa and Trazodone). I used to go to therapy for it. The last thing I wanted while I struggling with anxiety was to have someone make accommodations for me, because I knew it was MY problem to deal with and asking someone else to do something special to avoid me having a panic attack could very well only INCREASE my anxiety because I didn't want to be treated any differently than anyone else.

That's just me. Again, my remaining issue with this whole thing is a personal one, not an empirical one.

a reply to: ScientificRailgun

You should know that people handle their issues differently. The twitter request was made DURING the meeting because the women in question were having anxiety issues due to the clapping. The Oxford request was made preemptively just in case. Clearly it was necessary because the women were having anxiety issues. As someone who has anxiety issues, do you think it is right to make them suffer through their panic attacks just so that the meeting can keep the tradition of clapping intact? Again it was just one meeting.

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
a reply to: InTheLight

I have anxiety issues. I take medication for it (Celexa and Trazodone). I used to go to therapy for it. The last thing I wanted while I struggling with anxiety was to have someone make accommodations for me, because I knew it was MY problem to deal with and asking someone else to do something special to avoid me having a panic attack could very well only INCREASE my anxiety because I didn't want to be treated any differently than anyone else.

That's just me. Again, my remaining issue with this whole thing is a personal one, not an empirical one.

Yes, asking for accommodation is a personal choice, and I suppose these people (not sure if they were women or not) who asked the meeting organizers (not sure if they were women or not) for accommodation, must have felt it important to attend that particular meeting.

originally posted by: pfishy

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: AgentSmith

Yes, okay. I did a search and did see that one out of three requests DID use the term "Feminist Jazz Hand". Spoke too soon-APOLOGIES!

Having done my fair share of community theater, I know what Jazz Hands are. I have no idea what "feminist" Jazz Hands are, though. Pretty sure there's no such thing. It sounds to me like someone what getting sarcastic with adjectives in their tweets.

"Feminist Jazz Hands"
That will either be my next tattoo or my epitaph.
That's just great...

"Feminist blues hands" would be more appropriate.

a reply to: ~Lucidity

I don't mean you're wastes as women, not at all. I mean that what you value as feminists has a tendency of going overboard and making you look insane. Also you need friends who aren't feminists as well, it's always good to have a balance. I do want to say though Jazz hands instead of clapping, I think even you would say that's ridiculous.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: ScientificRailgun

You should know that people handle their issues differently. The twitter request was made DURING the meeting because the women in question were having anxiety issues due to the clapping. The Oxford request was made preemptively just in case. Clearly it was necessary because the women were having anxiety issues. As someone who has anxiety issues, do you think it is right to make them suffer through their panic attacks just so that the meeting can keep the tradition of clapping intact? Again it was just one meeting.

I agree with you, it's completely within their right to request accommodation. And the university made the right call in acquiescing to the request. But I personally would not have made the same request.

Again, it's personal for me. I'm no longer criticizing the university or event organizers.

a reply to: InTheLight

THEY need to adapt and get over their inabilities in order to survive in the real world.
Enough of coddling P.C. overgrown CHILDREN.

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
a reply to: InTheLight

THEY need to adapt and get over their inabilities in order to survive in the real world.
Enough of coddling P.C. overgrown CHILDREN.

Is that what you did for your PTSD, nothing?

As a female who suffers from severe PTSD to the point of not being able to work and rarely leaving my house- OP you are totally right. It's MY responsibility to deal with my issue, not force the world to bow to my every whim. I avoid crowded and noisy places. I don't seek out crowded and noisy places and try to demand everyone disperse and be extra quiet so as not to upset me.

I am in every way equal to men, by definition a true feminist. Beeyatches like this give the rest of us a bad name and widen the gap between the sexes, not mend it.

a reply to: ScientificRailgun

You make a good point that asking for special help is trigger for you so you dont ask. I actually know other people with anxiety who feel kind of similar to you in that context. They dont want to be treated any differently either, which is great.

But for these people in the NUS meeting, the clapping was a trigger. And they obviously feel comfortable enough to make a request which is also great.

Its worth noting (for all the people on here slating people who request accommodations be made for them) that it is, and has been for a long time now, an act of law that states reasonable accommodations must be made to accommodate people with disabilities, physical and mental.
Why people have a problem with that is beyond me. I just hope they never find themselves in a position where an illness or disability means they have to request certain accommodations in their later years.

originally posted by- Krazysh0t

'Why not do communist fist-bumps?'

If I didn't have such severe PTSD I would totally start a punk rock band. And I really can't decide which would be the better name "Communist Fist Bump" or "Feminist Jazz Hands"! Lmao!

a reply to: daftpink

It is much ado about nothing.

It is about a chance to bash on feminists.

Your intuition serves you well.

a reply to: InTheLight

I take meds and SMILE alot so I don't bother others ,I don't drink so I don't rage and I see a psychiatrist every 6 months and smoke a certain herb...other that you are right.
I have to do it MYSELF and so DO THEY.

a reply to: ladyvalkyrie

How is the group in question "forcing the world to bow to their will"?

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
a reply to: InTheLight

How is that not what's happening here? They're discriminating based on gender. It's really that simple. Discrimination of ANY kind is wrong. You immediately say they're white supremacists. Why is that? Why is it when it's women saying "no boys allowed" that they're not "woman supremacists" or "misandrists"? Your applying the standard to one group and not the other. Discrimination is discrimination. Color it however you like, rationalize it any way you want, but the fact remains that a group of people excluded another group of people based on gender.

In this case it is not discrimination, it is accommodation for women with anxiety, which is a disability. And this accommodation could be addressed by simply seating these people near an exit door, so if they are unable to work through their issue while at the co-ed meeting (yes, no men were denied access), that they have a quick exit. The same applies for children with anxiety issues in school, that if you provide them with a clear exit route, then this alleviates a great deal of anxiety which allows them to function more normally.

Ok, I have done enough stone throwing on this thread. But...
psyciatryonline
Disorders and disabilities are different. I, personally, suffer from major depressive disorder. But, according to every doctor and state agency I've inquired about it with, it is NOT a disability. There are numerous mental disabilities, but neither mine, nor anxiety, adhd, etc qualify as one. Yes, there are overlaps. Severe PTSD can be regarded by the medical profession as a disability. As well as state and governmental agencies like the VA.
My point to all of this is that the ADA does not require special accommodation for most disorders. And that is the overarching governance relevant to this particular discussion, in the US at least. And the regulations in the UK closely mirror them.
Now, as I have stated previously, I take no issue with requesting that the audience not clap for the speakers dealing with this issue. That's fine. But I have also detailed what I see as a problem with society as a whole, and that is that everyone must be labeled, everyone must be coddled, everyone must be a victim, and no one is required or even expected to deal with their own problems or be responsible for their own actions. There's always something to point the finger at and say "This is why I don't function properly", or "This is why I make bad decisions" or "This is why I can't control my actions and responses."
People are afraid to take a good look at themselves and say "This is what I could do better, and this is how I should try and do it". They refuse to take ownership of their lives. The chunk of gray stuff between your ears belongs to YOU. You are responsible for what it produces, but you are also free to change the settings .

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
a reply to: InTheLight

I take meds and SMILE alot so I don't bother others ,I don't drink so I don't rage and I see a psychiatrist every 6 months and smoke a certain herb...other that you are right.
I have to do it MYSELF and so DO THEY.

I believe they are doing it, just by the fact of becoming involved and perhaps gaining a better understanding of the issues that may have contributed to their anxiety in the first place, to me, that is doing something to help themselves, in my books and asking for accommodation to help them achieve their gains in helping themselves, should be provided.

originally posted by: ladyvalkyrie
As a female who suffers from severe PTSD to the point of not being able to work and rarely leaving my house- OP you are totally right. It's MY responsibility to deal with my issue, not force the world to bow to my every whim. I avoid crowded and noisy places. I don't seek out crowded and noisy places and try to demand everyone disperse and be extra quiet so as not to upset me.

I am in every way equal to men, by definition a true feminist. Beeyatches like this give the rest of us a bad name and widen the gap between the sexes, not mend it.

This is the attitude I prefer. I'm not broken up over accommodating people, but I also think it's a good idea to maintain normalcy. I'm not a fan of creating sheltered psyche's. While anxiety is unfortunate for a few, a world of Jazz hands would be demoralizing for everyone. Sorry anxiety, you have to take one for the good of humanity. Jazz hands are depressing. I'd hate to see suicide rates increase.

If we can't clap, at least come up with a better alternative than Jazz Hands. Anything but Jazz hands. My soul becomes a few shades darker every time I see Jazz Hands. One of my managers suggested the use of Jazz hands once, it deflated everyone within a one mile radius. Jazz hands cause cancer.

originally posted by: ladyvalkyrie
As a female who suffers from severe PTSD to the point of not being able to work and rarely leaving my house- OP you are totally right. It's MY responsibility to deal with my issue, not force the world to bow to my every whim. I avoid crowded and noisy places. I don't seek out crowded and noisy places and try to demand everyone disperse and be extra quiet so as not to upset me.

I am in every way equal to men, by definition a true feminist. Beeyatches like this give the rest of us a bad name and widen the gap between the sexes, not mend it.

No one is asking the world to do jazz hands. It was one meeting. The participants made a request that would allow them to still fully participate despite their condition. Anyone with a disability/illness/mental condition etc has the right to make these requests. We have laws to promote and protect this.
The 'beeyatches' are simply trying to fully participate in a meeting. Thete is no indication that they are bad, horrible feminists giving you a bad name. Thats your own sweeping judgement.