Feminists request use of "jazz hands" rather than clapping to avoid triggering "anxiety" [OP UPD

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: daftpink

That's the problem. The ISSUE isn't about feminism, but Breitbart made it about feminism. Hence we have a feminism discussion (or rather just a thread where the anti-feminists can make fun of feminists).

To be fair though, they made it about feminism when they specifically tweeted initially:

please can we ask people to stop clapping but do feminist jazz hands? it's triggering some peoples' anxiety. thank you!

Emphasis mine...

a reply to: daftpink

Here's a less sensational version of the story.

Students swap clapping for jazz hands at NUS event

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
a reply to: InTheLight

It sets a bad precedent. Replace the word "men" with "blacks" in this situation and suddenly they're horrible racists. But when it's gender, suddenly it's okay. I just don't get it.

It sets a good precedent for women with anxiety issues trying to attend women's group meetings about women's issues, and being made to feel welcome and safe.

So you'd be alright with with white people with anxiety issues attending a white group meeting about white's issues, and saying "no blacks allowed" to make them feel welcome and safe?

Anything less is hypocrisy.

That would be up to the meeting organziers, who would most likely be white supremicists, and who would most likely have all agreed to the discrimination in the first place and where black people would never be welcomed and be made to feel safe any way. This is not what is happening here with this women's group. Your point is mute.

a reply to: AgentSmith

The request specifically said "please can we ask people to stop clapping but do feminist jazz hands? it's triggering some peoples' anxiety. "

Are you being deliberately dishonest? There was no inference to feminism in the tweet in question.

The actual "Tweet":

Some delegates are requesting that we move to jazz hands rather than clapping, as it's triggering anxiety. Please be mindful! #nuswomen15 "
twitter.com...

a reply to: AgentSmith

Because it was triggering anxiety. The twitter message was a request.

please can we ask people to stop clapping but do feminist jazz hands? it's triggering some peoples' anxiety. thank you!

NUS wasn't obliged to follow that request, but they did out of inclusiveness.

Though, I'm interested to know why changing clapping to jazz hands for one meeting is some sort of nefarious feminist agenda. Why is it so important that it warrants hit pieces against feminism and this thread with all these people making fun of feminists? I've been to meetings where they tell you not to applause at all or use a thumbs up. It's just a show of appreciation.

a reply to: InTheLight

How is that not what's happening here? They're discriminating based on gender. It's really that simple. Discrimination of ANY kind is wrong. You immediately say they're white supremacists. Why is that? Why is it when it's women saying "no boys allowed" that they're not "woman supremacists" or "misandrists"? Your applying the standard to one group and not the other. Discrimination is discrimination. Color it however you like, rationalize it any way you want, but the fact remains that a group of people excluded another group of people based on gender.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: AgentSmith

The request specifically said "please can we ask people to stop clapping but do feminist jazz hands? it's triggering some peoples' anxiety. "

Are you being deliberately dishonest? There was no inference to feminism in the tweet in question.

The actual "Tweet":

Some delegates are requesting that we move to jazz hands rather than clapping, as it's triggering anxiety. Please be mindful! #nuswomen15 "
twitter.com...

Wrong again...

The original request I was referring to, if you had read the previous posts including mine in the thread....

twitter.com...

I will accept your apology for questioning my honesty.

I DO have PTSD and clapping ,yelling and whooping is a happy celebratory noise.
4th of JULY can be nerve racking but I DON'T want to US to give up FIREWORKS for me.
WHO EVER they are students ,feminists I don't care they can eat it.

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
a reply to: InTheLight

How is that not what's happening here? They're discriminating based on gender. It's really that simple. Discrimination of ANY kind is wrong. You immediately say they're white supremacists. Why is that? Why is it when it's women saying "no boys allowed" that they're not "woman supremacists" or "misandrists"? Your applying the standard to one group and not the other. Discrimination is discrimination. Color it however you like, rationalize it any way you want, but the fact remains that a group of people excluded another group of people based on gender.

In this case it is not discrimination, it is accommodation for women with anxiety, which is a disability. And this accommodation could be addressed by simply seating these people near an exit door, so if they are unable to work through their issue while at the co-ed meeting (yes, no men were denied access), that they have a quick exit. The same applies for children with anxiety issues in school, that if you provide them with a clear exit route, then this alleviates a great deal of anxiety which allows them to function more normally.

a reply to: ScientificRailgun

I'm not sure where you are seeing discrimination at. This is a meeting of women to discuss women's issues (though I am having trouble confirming that only women attended this meeting, it appears to have been a co-ed meeting). Such meetings occur in the black community, religious communities, and other minority group communities. Heck the only one it really isn't condoned on is for white males because then everyone assumes that it is a white supremacy meeting.

a reply to: AgentSmith

Yes, okay. I did a search and did see that one out of three requests DID use the term "Feminist Jazz Hand". Spoke too soon-APOLOGIES!

Having done my fair share of community theater, I know what Jazz Hands are. I have no idea what "feminist" Jazz Hands are, though. Pretty sure there's no such thing. It sounds to me like someone what getting sarcastic with adjectives in their tweets.

a reply to: AgentSmith

Im saying people are up in arms about a request to not clap. Does it really matter where the request came from?
The context is also important.
Have you read this?

oxfordstudent.com...

"...instead use what are colloquially known as ‘feminist jazz hands’, also known as ‘consensus hands’... "

So the mere mention of the word feminism is enough to produce all this hatred towards the people making the requests?

I feel their requests are valid. Who cares what they call their alternative to clapping?

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
I DO have PTSD and clapping ,yelling and whooping is a happy celebratory noise.
4th of JULY can be nerve racking but I DON'T want to US to give up FIREWORKS for me.
WHO EVER they are students ,feminists I don't care they can eat it.

No one is asking you to stop clapping though so what is the issue?

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
I DO have PTSD and clapping ,yelling and whooping is a happy celebratory noise.
4th of JULY can be nerve racking but I DON'T want to US to give up FIREWORKS for me.
WHO EVER they are students ,feminists I don't care they can eat it.

The women at this small meeting are not asking all of society to give any important personal rights up, except for a small number of women and men to replace clapping and whooping with jazz hands, which is not a lot to ask people to do to accommodate people with anxiety (disability) issues.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Why not do communist fist-bumps?

It's a political movement inserting itself into something so innocuous. That's enough to cause concern.

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
a reply to: InTheLight

How is that not what's happening here? They're discriminating based on gender. It's really that simple. Discrimination of ANY kind is wrong. You immediately say they're white supremacists. Why is that? Why is it when it's women saying "no boys allowed" that they're not "woman supremacists" or "misandrists"? Your applying the standard to one group and not the other. Discrimination is discrimination. Color it however you like, rationalize it any way you want, but the fact remains that a group of people excluded another group of people based on gender.

In this case it is not discrimination, it is accommodation for women with anxiety, which is a disability. And this accommodation could be addressed by simply seating these people near an exit door, so if they are unable to work through their issue while at the co-ed meeting (yes, no men were denied access), that they have a quick exit. The same applies for children with anxiety issues in school, that if you provide them with a clear exit route, then this alleviates a great deal of anxiety which allows them to function more normally.

Okay, that makes much more sense. I wasn't aware men were allowed into the meeting. I must have missed that. Seating people with anxiety issues near an exit is a common accommodation. If men were permitted to be in the meeting then that's fine. That was the only issue I had. I do think opting for "Jazz Hands" instead of clapping is a little absurd, but by no means is it wrong to request it. That seems silly to me, but I'm not an event organizer.

I think the main issue I really have with this whole thing is that it seems like the whole event seemed to be coddling people. Nothing wrong with that, of course. But, I personally don't like coddling people or being coddled. You could say it triggers me.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Why not do communist fist-bumps?

It's a political movement inserting itself into something so innocuous. That's enough to cause concern.

Are you here just to stir things up?

a reply to: InTheLight

Stay on topic.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Why not do communist fist-bumps?

Because they wanted to do jazz hands instead. The action is irrelevant. I could care less what it was substituted for.

It's a political movement inserting itself into something so innocuous. That's enough to cause concern.

No it is catering to people's disabilities. Or do you not believe that General Anxiety Disorder is a real thing?

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
a reply to: InTheLight

How is that not what's happening here? They're discriminating based on gender. It's really that simple. Discrimination of ANY kind is wrong. You immediately say they're white supremacists. Why is that? Why is it when it's women saying "no boys allowed" that they're not "woman supremacists" or "misandrists"? Your applying the standard to one group and not the other. Discrimination is discrimination. Color it however you like, rationalize it any way you want, but the fact remains that a group of people excluded another group of people based on gender.

In this case it is not discrimination, it is accommodation for women with anxiety, which is a disability. And this accommodation could be addressed by simply seating these people near an exit door, so if they are unable to work through their issue while at the co-ed meeting (yes, no men were denied access), that they have a quick exit. The same applies for children with anxiety issues in school, that if you provide them with a clear exit route, then this alleviates a great deal of anxiety which allows them to function more normally.

Okay, that makes much more sense. I wasn't aware men were allowed into the meeting. I must have missed that. Seating people with anxiety issues near an exit is a common accommodation. If men were permitted to be in the meeting then that's fine. That was the only issue I had. I do think opting for "Jazz Hands" instead of clapping is a little absurd, but by no means is it wrong to request it. That seems silly to me, but I'm not an event organizer.

I think the main issue I really have with this whole thing is that it seems like the whole event seemed to be coddling people. Nothing wrong with that, of course. But, I personally don't like coddling people or being coddled. You could say it triggers me.

You should talk to some disabled people who would take issue with you calling accommodation for them as coddling.