Feminists request use of "jazz hands" rather than clapping to avoid triggering "anxiety" [OP UPD

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
Yes NAD I went to college ..FAILED because I couldn't REMEMBER the computer programs but I was THERE in an art school.
I HAD ALL that and I handled it it wasn't a big deal all you do is SMILE a lot and noone knows a thing.

MY ISSUE ,I handled it.

Good for you. Not everyone is you with your brain and abilities though. Pretending like just because YOU can handle it, doesn't mean that everyone else can. That is a very callous way to view mental illness.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

You think we don't have to?
DO you for one minute think that ANYONE who has been shot at or asaulted doesn't do that?
It's adulthood,Mommy and aDADDY aren't there to fix it YOU have to. there arre ways and help but getting into public speaking and not being able to handle it will NEVER fly.
SOMEDAY everyone MUST grow an intellect and a spine,the world is not so nice and it isn't I who is the villian.
I don't do alot and I don't play politics or go out and do activism either.

a reply to: mahatche

I'm offended by your severe phobia of jazz hands.

If you don't stop making anti-jazz hand posts you are wantonly disregarding MY feelings. How dare you sir?!

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
a reply to: Krazysh0t

The difference being a wheelchair ramp doesn't force others to not use the stairs.

I'm agreeing with you, to be clear, just playing devil's advocate.

It forces the business owner to spend money to install the ramp though. That's a bit more "enforcement" than asking a congregation to temporarily change the way they express their applause.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

IF such illness is present don't keep provking it.
YOU'LL FAIL.
Why do you think addicts must change their friends,their entire lives?

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
a reply to: Krazysh0t

You think we don't have to?

Who is this we? Do you assume I don't have mental problems of my own to deal with?

DO you for one minute think that ANYONE who has been shot at or asaulted doesn't do that?

Yea, that must be why so many veterans make up our homeless population. They just "got over their ptsd".

It's adulthood,Mommy and aDADDY aren't there to fix it YOU have to. there arre ways and help but getting into public speaking and not being able to handle it will NEVER fly.

These people weren't publicly speaking. They were attendees to a meeting and just wanted to listen to the presentation without going into a panic attack. Is that really so hard to understand?

SOMEDAY everyone MUST grow an intellect and a spine,the world is not so nice and it isn't I who is the villian.
I don't do alot and I don't play politics or go out and do activism either.

You need to drop the hard ass attitude. Not everyone is you. Some people DO need assistance for their mental issues regardless of how tough they are.

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
a reply to: Krazysh0t

IF such illness is present don't keep provking it.
YOU'LL FAIL.
Why do you think addicts must change their friends,their entire lives?

This is bizarre reasoning. These women weren't trying to provoke their illness, they were asking people to temporarily do something else instead of clapping so that their illness WOULDN'T be provoked...

originally posted by: ladyvalkyrie
a reply to: mahatche

I'm offended by your severe phobia of jazz hands.

If you don't stop making anti-jazz hand posts you are wantonly disregarding MY feelings. How dare you sir?!

holy crap! what if my irrational behavior toward jazz hands is an indication of mental illness? I am mentally disturbed by Jazz hands!

We'll that settles this argument, now that we have clear proof of jazz hand phobia, we can no longer use them! Come on guys! You said it, you're a jerk if you don't accommodate me!

originally posted by: ladyvalkyrie
a reply to: InTheLight

Help them?...accommodate them? Yes! I'm all for it!

....to the point where it encroaches on completely reasonable and otherwise totally unoffensive behaviors of others? Nope, you lost me.

I would welcome jazz hands at conferences and meetings because whooping and loud clapping distract from the speaker and besides there is too much noise pollution for my tastes, and I do not have anxiety issues. Also, it most likely went to a vote and was most likely, unanimously, a 'yes'.

a reply to: mahatche

(I've done far worse things with my hands to actually embarrass myself. Trust.)

I just realized, you're right about the Bible! Jesus weighed in on the subject: We are to cut off the hands that offend us! (Mark 9:43)

SO IT'S BIBLE! (Jeez, Jesus was a bit harsh in some respects, wasn't he? How'd He ever get to be known as the Prince of Peace? Sounds more like the "Prince of Pieces")

And in the Apocalypse of St. John too! Jazz Hand(s) is literally the End of the World as We Know IT!!!!

And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven, And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer.

The Revelation 10:5-6

Who knew? One little accommodation ... GATEWAY TO THE HELLSCAPE OF THE APOCALYPSE!!!!

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: pfishy

originally posted by: daftpink
a reply to: Gryphon66

Exactly. It's became a thread to hate on feminists and now people with anxiety issues.

Besides the obvious trolls, who's hating on feminists? Or people suffering from anxiety?

It more or less started as a thread to hate on feminists, but we have since hijacked the intent of the thread by showing that the article in question was sensationalized. It has since morphed into an argument to belittle people asking for assistance for their anxiety problems. This may have something to do with the anti-feminists not having much of an argument left to fall back on since it has been shown that the original article is ridiculous, or it could have something to do with people not fully understanding and sympathizing with people who have mental illness. Who knows? But that is where we are.

This is clear since people seem to think that mental illness suffers aren't disabled enough to warrant special attention. Wheel chair access ramps are fine, but asking a meeting to change the way you show appreciation is hearsay. It is hypocrisy to the extreme.

The scientific field of psychology is one of the youngest sciences. It should be a given that much of what we know about how the brain works is subject to massive changes as the field of psychology develops. One of the things that needs to change though, is people's perceptions of mental illness.

Very concise and salient answer. And I'm pretty sure most people in this thread are gladly lumping me and a couple of others into that category as well.
And while that's not an accurate categorization of our stand points, it doesn't matter either way. Nothing said or argued about on this site has or will ever make the world a better place. It is really just a venue for trying to shove opinions down each others throats, and maybe see a cool UFO video now and then.
The problem is, no one actually bothers to debate. They just argue. And I can't honestly say I have ever seen 1 single example of anyone making even a minor effort to consider an opposing point of view or acknowledge, even, that point of view even has a right to exist. It's basically become like a bunch of dogs barking at each other from the ends of ropes. Just instinctual, ingrained conflict.
So, yeah, nice chatting with you lovely people. I'm out. Got no use for this kind of unproductive headbutting.
It's been fun,
pfishy

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
a reply to: Krazysh0t

The difference being a wheelchair ramp doesn't force others to not use the stairs.

I'm agreeing with you, to be clear, just playing devil's advocate.

It forces the business owner to spend money to install the ramp though. That's a bit more "enforcement" than asking a congregation to temporarily change the way they express their applause.

The business owner has an obligation to keep a building up to code. If the building services the public in any way (service, merchandise, etc) The building regulations require he make that building wheelchair accessible. The key here is that regulations enforce the wheelchair ramp, and does not inconvenience the greater public by doing so.

To add to it, I think a lot of the "This Triggers Me!" complaints in modern times is more an issue of "This mildly annoys me" and someone decides to have a powertrip and force EVERYONE to accommodate someone who would be annoyed by something. I'm not saying that's the case here, of course. A lot of it though I think is someone wanting power over something. The sound a Styrofoam rubbing or squeaking together drives me absolutely bonkers, and has more than once sent me into a panic attack (It's irrational, I know. But the sound REALLY does send my bloodpressure through the roof and makes me want to flee the area ASAP. I'm not afraid of styrofoam by any means, but the sound of it rubbing together just makes this involuntary reaction happen in me that I cannot control). But I would NEVER demand a place of business give me my "to-go" order in a cardboard container because styrofoam noise absoutely drives me nuts. I just gingerly accept my box, and try my best not to elicit any undue noise from it.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

SPEAKING in public and being shook up by applause means more therapy before he stage,or the stage should wait until nominal behavior can be tollerated.
I would be homeless as well if I wasn't married, the popular cultures that show up are disgusting.
JUST to get away from others is WHY they are doing it,they prefer the calm of isolation to go die as they will.
Their choice ,if you want them to work stick them the woods. BLM's Dept.

originally posted by: pfishy
Very concise and salient answer. And I'm pretty sure most people in this thread are gladly lumping me and a couple of others into that category as well.

I am not lumping you into that category at all. You are one of the few who appears to be engaging thoughtfully despite us not fully agreeing 100%. That was more a case of me talking in general and you are supposed to recognize if it doesn't apply to you.

And while that's not an accurate categorization of our stand points, it doesn't matter either way. Nothing said or argued about on this site has or will ever make the world a better place. It is really just a venue for trying to shove opinions down each others throats, and maybe see a cool UFO video now and then.

Change starts when opinion becomes widespread. I always try to argue the facts and not so much try to change others' opinions. Eventually, if they are intellectually honest, they will come around. I've seen it happen. It's even happened to me.

The problem is, no one actually bothers to debate. They just argue. And I can't honestly say I have ever seen 1 single example of anyone making even a minor effort to consider an opposing point of view or acknowledge, even, that point of view even has a right to exist. It's basically become like a bunch of dogs barking at each other from the ends of ropes. Just instinctual, ingrained conflict.

I do it all the time. I even acknowledge when I've been shown to be wrong.

So, yeah, nice chatting with you lovely people. I'm out. Got no use for this kind of unproductive headbutting.
It's been fun,
pfishy

You aren't going to find much better discussions elsewhere. You basically appear to want to avoid the trolls (they are after all the loudest), but that is impossible.

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
a reply to: Krazysh0t

SPEAKING in public and being shook up by applause means more therapy before he stage,or the stage should wait until nominal behavior can be tollerated.

They seemed to be fine once the applause changed to jazz hands. To me, the request to use a different form of applause is such an easy one to accommodate to, that only the blindingly ignorant would have a problem with it.

I would be homeless as well if I wasn't married, the popular cultures that show up are disgusting.

So even you admit that you couldn't conquer your mental issues by yourself. Strangely you can't sympathize with these women though...

JUST to get away from others is WHY they are doing it,they prefer the calm of isolation to go die as they will.
Their choice ,if you want them to work stick them the woods. BLM's Dept.

Oh, I didn't realize that shell shocked soldiers speak for women with anxiety issues inspired by past trauma (probably due to relationships with abusive boyfriends/husbands) and their motivations.

originally posted by: ladyvalkyrie
a reply to: daftpink

First, for the record, I'm not angry or hating feminists or the disabled. I just enjoy a good debate!

Second, I totally agree that as a society we've come a long way. And there's still a long way to go. 100 years ago I would be locked up in an institution because of my illness. Now safety nets such as Social Security allow me to live in the comfort of my own home. People still discriminate and are still ignorant, but it's slowly getting better.

At my daughter's school, they integrate children with Down Syndrome into the regular classroom and they just blossom. Again, 100 years ago they'd be locked up in an institution.

But it is very possible for the pendulum to swing too far the other way. Other people shouldn't have to walk on eggshells under the pretense of 'accommodation'.

What if I had a severe and uncontrollable phobia of the color red? Are you saying that it would be totally prudent of me to go around and 'request' that other people not wear red? Or drive red cars? Or carry purses or backpacks that are totally red, or mostly red? And anyone who refuses to accommodate me are just hate filled, close minded, anti-disability a-holes?

1. I didn't say you were. My other comment was aimed at the general feel of this whole thread not you alone.
2. people are completley taking this out of context - a private group has decided to do this after a few requests. Is it not likely this group know each other well and do not mind making the requests? People's attitudes on this thread - if your anxious, tough sh*t, stay at home - this mentality is the ignorance that is annoying quite a few people on this thread. That and the fact that the OP tried to make it about feminism when it really wasn't and the NUS students got a bashing for that too.

I'm defending these requests because people I know with autism could just as easily be targeted like this all for requesting that they can participate in a nerve wracking debate if small adjustments are made. We dont know if these participants had autism or not but whatever their conditon, why can't people understand and respect them? It can't be easy for them so why do people want to make it harder? Its simple empathy and altruism. The world lacks it!!

But anayway back to your points - its society's attitudes changing that has stopped people like you (and my son) being locked up for their difficuties and lets keep it that way and keep enlightening society of how crippling mental health or autism etc etc can be as many are still very ignorant. But the pendulum won't swing the other way, clapping or the colour red is not going to be outlawed anytime soon so people need to calm down and let this go.

Good debating with you

a reply to: ScientificRailgun

There will always be people who will misuse a cause or idea to further their own interests/ego. That is a given. What needs to be done though, is look at each situation on a case-by-case basis.

"The problem is, no one actually bothers to debate. They just argue. And I can't honestly say I have ever seen 1 single example of anyone making even a minor effort to consider an opposing point of view or acknowledge, even, that point of view even has a right to exist. It's basically become like a bunch of dogs barking at each other from the ends of ropes. Just instinctual, ingrained conflict."
-pfishy

Aww man, I just saw that he's peacing out. And I was just about to do this:

SWITCH!

People with anxiety disorders shouldn't have to be excluded from social settings. In fact, such exclusions just exacerbate their conditions and make them more prone to depression. If doing something so simple as waving your hands or snapping your fingers instead of loud clapping and whooping can make another human being more comfortable...you should do it gladly and willingly. Remember the Golden Rule "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." If you were the one suffering from severe anxiety and/or PTSD you would be very grateful for the courtesy of others and the opportunity to attend an event that you otherwise wouldn't have been able to.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

STILL have to deal with life as I choose it. 'MY responsability which is a DIRTY word to you apparently the argument is still not at all vald.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: pfishy

originally posted by: daftpink
a reply to: Gryphon66

Exactly. It's became a thread to hate on feminists and now people with anxiety issues.

Besides the obvious trolls, who's hating on feminists? Or people suffering from anxiety?

It more or less started as a thread to hate on feminists, but we have since hijacked the intent of the thread by showing that the article in question was sensationalized. It has since morphed into an argument to belittle people asking for assistance for their anxiety problems. This may have something to do with the anti-feminists not having much of an argument left to fall back on since it has been shown that the original article is ridiculous, or it could have something to do with people not fully understanding and sympathizing with people who have mental illness. Who knows? But that is where we are.

This is clear since people seem to think that mental illness suffers aren't disabled enough to warrant special attention. Wheel chair access ramps are fine, but asking a meeting to change the way you show appreciation is hearsay. It is hypocrisy to the extreme.

The scientific field of psychology is one of the youngest sciences. It should be a given that much of what we know about how the brain works is subject to massive changes as the field of psychology develops. One of the things that needs to change though, is people's perceptions of mental illness.

Couldn't have put it better myself!