NLBS #35: The Anti-Vaccination Movement and the Measles Outbreak

a reply to: MarioOnTheFly

Glad to have helped!

originally posted by: peskyhumans
Free people should have the right to decide what does or does not get injected into your body. I am completely against the concept of the State determining our healthcare - that is not the purpose of government.

Also I think the OP is BS. This ATS "series" is stupid.

Except you live in a society that requires obligations from you. If you want to live as a "free man" then I suggest getting lost in a jungle or something.

originally posted by: TsukiLunar
a reply to: and14263

Have you not read the thread? Viruses mutate in unpredictable ways when you let them continue to exist. If you give them room to grow, then even the vaccinated can get sick. This is the reason flu vaccine are only 30 percent effective.

You are wonderfully polite member. Thank you for educating me in such an admirable fashion. Reread my posts.

a reply to: and14263

Right. I apologize if I seem militant about this. It boggles my mind when people forget their lessons on viruses that they took in science 101.

a reply to: theNLBS

Great job man!

Autism is a condition which although not life threatening, is serious, and deserves to be examined with a rigid focus on prevention and mitigation. My son has Aspergers, one of the many conditions on the autistic spectrum. Anti-science crap like MMR avoidance, and the time spent on that by media organisations and indeed researchers and doctors, takes away vital resources of information and energy from the effort to better understand the conditions covered by that umbrella, and to improve the treatment options and infastructure available to deal with the symptoms.

We should be concerned with making sure that our children are receiving the best possible care, and are put at the least possible risk by things which are supposed to protect them. However, the best way to do that is to become aware enough of the scientific realities affecting the situations which play into a childs life, from dietary recommendations, right through to vaccination and surgical requirements which might come up, to make choices which will aid them in their development, not put them at greater risk.

I feel that part of the reason for this fear around MMR and other vaccines, apart of course from the legitimate distrust of big pharma which you alluded to in your video, is that although our ability as a species to treat ailments has improved massively over a relatively short period of time, the awareness of the general public of things like medical sciences, like anatomy, biochemistry, and so on, have not moved along at the same pace. They have moved along, because nowadays most people will not drink a tonic made from radium, for example. But they have not progressed at the same pace as medical science has, and I think there may be a very unfortunate reason for that.

We generally have to work harder, for less real gain these days. An afternoons work is not worth what it was in real terms, because food, drink, fuel and energy, not to mention housing and other costs of living, have gone up. So we have less time to relax, and indeed to bone up on things like this for our own interests sake. I think that is a dangerous road to go down for our species, since it is only our ability to gather information for ourselves about topics, and be reasonably sure of the validity of our conclusions which make it possible to navigate life with any confidence, with less fear, or worse, ignorance. One cannot be certain of the validity of ones conclusions, if one lacks the grounding in the basics of the subject matter discussed, which is why I am concerned that the collapse of general knowledge in the world today might be responsible for quite a lot of what we see, where MMR and other vaccine dodging is concerned.

Anyway, nice job once again Joe. I liked the last episode as well, so stuff the haters, just keep shooting your wisdom bullets into every single thing you can draw a bead on! Its always a good shoot when you fire truth at nonsense!

It ALL is certainly next level bull# .... talking about the MMR ... it's link to autism would be a secondary concern for MMR after this lawsuit by other whistleblowers which are suing Merck in Philadelphia Federal court alleging that the testing of the efficiency of the MMR vaccine is fraudulent since 2003?.....

arguing about this is about like arguing if "God" should be in the "Pledge of Allegiance" corporate marketing slogan to sell more flags ....

Remember when 8 out of 10 doctors smoked? Or that fluoride in the water is effective for fighting tooth decay? Or when the asbestos was used in the US 50 years after the rest of the world stopped using it?

If you count on corporate science is too protect the public ... then I have a bridge to sell you ......

MMR effectiveness questioned

another link

originally posted by: TsukiLunar
a reply to: and14263

Right. I apologize if I seem militant about this. It boggles my mind when people forget their lessons on viruses that they took in science 101.

What boggles my mind is how some members here can defend vaccines as necessities without providing data demonstrating a strong efficacy rate among the more popular vaccines.

a reply to: Dark Ghost

"Vaccines" are very effective against the strain your trying to prevent. If you catch a flu after getting vaccinated its not the vaccine that failed. Its the flu that changed.

originally posted by: InverseLookingGlass
a reply to: theNLBS

There is no anti vaccination movement.
There is a movement to preserve the human right to control what is injected into your body.

There is also a statist movement to force medical interventions on perfectly healthy people --at gunpoint if necessary.
Even if the intervention was risk free, which obviously it isn't, this is a grave moral degenracy with no practical boundaries.

This moral degeneracy, is in a class with the most grievous human right violations currently afflicting the US. Those that prefer ignorance have a tendency to worship technocrats. But it's the short memory that is the most shocking thing.

For the sake of all that's moral and true, research the uncountable lies and cover-ups that have been perpetrated on dupes. Please start with human destruction caused by the initial release of the live virus Measles vaccine in the 60's.

Next level is right. I'm sorry I wasted my time clicking on the first level.

ARose by any other name. Call it what you like you just described the anti vac movement. It's real and its endangered people.
Folks measles can cause death in children. It's not some harmless little itchy rash. It causes high fevers and has been known to trigger encelphalitis. A deadly swelling of the brain.

I admittedly know nothing of this subject, so this may seem a stupid question, but if one kid in a classroom is not vaccinated and becomes sick, what do the other kids have to worry about if they were vaccinated?

Wa reply to: Metallicus

Wrong wrong wrong.
You do not have a right to allow your kid to become a walking pathogen who might in turn infect a baby who is too young to get the vaccine. Then if that baby developes encephalitis because you didn't vaccinate your kid and if that baby dies what do you say to the parent?
Oops, sorry about that? Not my concern? That truly is BS. A big stinking pile of it.
Glad my kids are older and that I've protected them from harmful disease. Like a good parent would. Yes I'm saying parents who choose not to vaccinate are not good parents.

originally posted by: fictitious
a reply to: pasiphae

Also, to point out, my husband suddenly demanded to get our daughter's MMR shot immediately because of the Disney land outbreak. He didn't even realize she's still too young. He did absolutely no research. The media is doing a good job at fear mongering.

That's my thought as well...pretty convenient to capitalize on this as the icing on the cake following about a year long push to shame "anti-vaxers". Throw in the all-American Disneyland for good measure, it's better than a movie script.

Even the term "anti-vax" is loaded language to imply a bit of anti-science shame. I am not "anti-vax", I'm delayed vax and one at a time vax. I'm for not giving a newborn a hep B shot at the hospital, for what is essentally a sexually transmitted disease.

But, as others have said...why freak out on doubters when even vaccinated people are getting measles? It's more than ironic, it's idiotic and a campaign sure to be funded by Big Pharma. What better way to gin up demand for a dubiously effective immunization than an outbreak? Especially if you scapegoat your harshest critics....

Another angle on this measles outbreak which would have been more discerning and appropriate for a conspiracy site is immigration. Who brought a previously irraducated disease into this country? How about Whooping Cough? No small wonder this outbreak started in the Southwest.

My take away from this particular installment of NLBS is that it's possible to find "evidence" on any world view while googling the internet. I'll stick to real life, anecdotal accounts from parents worldwide. I for one tend to think autism is an autoimmune reaction to an environmental factor that can be exacerbated by both vaccines and gut biology. It's complicated.

The concern is for the baby brothers and sisters who are still too young to get the vaccine who are not to young to get the disease. The very young are at risk of death. a reply to: humanityrising

originally posted by: SkepticOverlord
You've been misinformed

I think you purposefully cherrypicked that part of the comment without including his second sentence. That's a terrible tactic to use.

There is currently no gunpoint for parents opting out of childhood vaccinations. There should be other restrictions/penalties, but no guns. Just forms to fill out.

Again, you're misrepresenting what was said--you replaced the comment, "...to force medical interventions..." with "childhood vaccinations." Yep, still a terrible tactic to use.

You should not change or misrepresent what people say in order to make them seem incorrect. Everything said by InverseLookingGlass has merit, and you tried to demean it by changing its message and context.

originally posted by: Metallicus
a reply to: noeltrotsky

Regardless it would be our CHOICE if we want to eat it or not.

Dig those heels in. That's right.

a reply to: kosmicjack

You're spot on, and saved me a lengthy comment.

We are using a delayed vaccination schedule on our 1-year-old. She hasn't been sick yet. Of course, we're lucky enough and intelligent enough to opt for homeschooling over public schools and daycare centers, so I'm sure that has a lot to do with it.

If NLBS really wanted to discuss the problem with trasmission of these diseases, they'd start talking about dropping our kids off at child farms (daycares and schools) which act like a gigantic petrie dishes and have no real standard for cleanliness. Maybe they could talk about the intelligence level of parents taking their families to theme parks--a breeding ground of germs and uncleanliness--during the height of the season of sickness.

Like you said, vaccinated people are getting sick, too, and what people conveniently forget when they cry about "anti-vaxxers" is that vaccinated people still carry the diseases and can spread them, they just don't get as sick from them.

This whole thread is akin to fat-shaming. Although, I'm glad it was only focused on the autism side of it, as that is till wholly unproven, but with a son that has Asperger's Syndrome, I certainly don't want to test the waters with my daughter if I don't have to.

originally posted by: theNLBS
...

Last week, our episode on EMF Sensitivity inspired a lot of hate from many of our viewers, so for today's episode, we decided cover something "less controversial," the Anti-Vaccination Movement.
...

Doesn't anybody see what's going on here?

Less controversial? I don't think so. Probably one of the most controversial topics, hence all the thread action.

It's a bit like one of those tabloid articles purposefully written to get people commenting like mad at the bottom.

Marketing.

originally posted by: SlapMonkey
a reply to: kosmicjack
...
Like you said, vaccinated people are getting sick, too, and what people conveniently forget when they cry about "anti-vaxxers" is that vaccinated people still carry the diseases and can spread them, they just don't get as sick from them.
...

Very true.
Evidence found in animals at least

originally posted by: sosobad
a reply to: theNLBS

Great episode, expect a lot of heat though. Quite frankly anyone that doesn't get their kids vaccinated needs to be held accountable if anything happens. My partners step mother tried to convince her that we didn't need to get the vaccinations for my sons, very pushy about it. I eventually told her that it ain't her choice and to drop it. She convinced my partners sister to not get her kids done and I honestly feel sorry for them. Their parents had a chance to protect them against getting a desease and chose not to because of some twat that got struck off the register for dodgy dealings.

I guess those kids are being home schooled because they're not getting into any public school without immunization records that are complete and up to date.
Can you see the future when all of these under educated home schooled become the burden to society they are surly bound to become?

What about the ones who are as yet too young to get the vaccine. Choosing not to vaccinate your kid puts someones baby at risk. That is not a case of oh well the only ones affected are the anti vaxxers. They selfishly put others at risk.


reply to: deadeyedick