NLBS #35: The Anti-Vaccination Movement and the Measles Outbreak

We dig into the misinformation, deception, and outright lies

a reply to: theNLBS

A good place to start would be your U.S. corporate government funded "scientific" sources. Let me know when you want to start exposing the bs of corporate and government propaganda instead of insulting the skeptics which seems to be your role.

a reply to: Rezlooper

Maybe the measles virus finally decided to mutate, which makes all the current vaccines useless.

That is another reason for people to be anti-vaccine. There is a very real threat that the constant use of vaccines will cause viruses to "evolve" to much deadlier forms faster than normal. Then vaccines (and our immune systems) will be useless.

The theory of evolution supports this... Over time the viruses will naturally mutate, some strains will be stronger, some will be weaker. Although the vaccines (our immune system) will kill the viruses off (now), the strongest strains will survive a little bit longer than the weakest strains. This will give the stronger strains more time to duplicate in a host, and spread to someone else. So the next person has a much stronger strain. Rinse and repeat. Sooner or later there will be a strain strong enough to survive vaccines and our immune system. Survival of the fittest.

The only way to prevent this is to make the virus extinct, and I don't think that will be possible with vaccines. In the end, vaccines only work because of our immune systems, and not everyone has a strong immune system. So the virus survives. We need to invent a better virus killer... and I believe we already have......

UV light...

The MMR vaccine is ABSOLUTELY dangerous!

The proper way to do it is to space each one 3-4 months apart. Combining them all into one vaccine is what made them dangerous.

Last year's CDC revelations were pretty conclusive.

originally posted by: kloejen

originally posted by: theNLBS
Interestingly enough I just stumbled upon this article at Forbes. Measles Can Kill, And It's Spreading. Sue Parents Who Didn't Vaccinate? Absolutely.

How does that work? How can a vaccinated kid get infected if he/she is vaccinated?

I haven't read to the end before replying to this so forgive me if this was addressed already.

Different vacs are given at different stages of growth so children are at risk for diseases that they have yet to be protected from.

I am a libertarian constitutional rights advocate. I BELIEVE strongly in the bill of rights and due process. One thing people have to remember is the rights we enjoy under the constitution does have limits. Our rights are only protected if they do not infringe on the rights of others, cause harm to others, or incite violence to be caused on others.
When you choose not to vaccinate your self or your children, you are putting others and their children at risk of deadly diseases that can be prevented. All in the name of protection of your rights over the rights of others. This subject is probably the only time I will side with "the man". I don't want my kids dying because someone was exercising their right to choose. People wanna kill their own babies via abortion, fine, I hate it, but fine. But don't play with the lives of my children because of your need to take a stand.

a reply to: Kusinjo
It's your job to protect your children, not everyone elses. The same twisted logic is used to usurp all of our rights. How dare you carry a gun in public, you are a danger to my children! I don't want my children to be exposed to queers, get back in the closet! How dare you own a fast car, those put my child in danger!

originally posted by: SkepticOverlord
As has been previously indicated in this thread, the MMR vaccine (as are most vaccines) are not 100% effective. The more people who are vaccinated, the more the entire population is protected.

The woman who brought measles to Arizona from California was vaccinated.

Six children who caught measles here in Arizona from the resulting exposure, were vaccinated.

At least two (known) pre-vaccinated children (too young) have caught the measles.

It's an exceptionally serious issue.

So what exactly is the efficacy rate for these seemingly necessary vaccines? That would be an important consideration in order to make your "The more people who are vaccinated, the more the entire population is protected" argument seem plausible.

a reply to: TKDRL

I would maybe concede to what you have stated if you gave an example that actually takes away my control to protect my children. Gun owners can control who the kill with their guns. That makes them personally accountable for the actions they take. I don't believe that homosexuals are a danger to my child. Again cars are only dangerous when people drive recklessly and by doing so endanger the lives of others, in which case, their driving privileges should be suspended.
You do not have a leg to stand on unless you are suggesting that I keep my children inside my home at all times and never allow them to see the light of day.

I see what you are trying to say but your combative attitude blinds you to the simple fact that my rights do not supersede yours and vice versa.
My logic is not twisted or used to destroy your freedom. It is to maintain my own. As a father of 5 kids, all vaccinated, I don't think it is fair that people dictate to me that I must imprison my children to keep them from catching cooties from people that decide that of all the issues in the world that would be a perfect cause to stand up and fight for, they choose the one that could be the cause of babies dying from preventable diseases. All because they read somewhere that Vaccines are bad for you. I have news for you. I have my own issues with the pharmaceutical disease there is no vaccine for, but immunizations ain't the part of it I have a problem with. All my kids have been immunized and none have ever gotten sick. I didn't need to read that anywhere. It's true, and it happened in front of me. I DID however try to talk a friend of mine some years back into getting her kids immunized when she brought it up to me. She felt strongly, I felt strongly. We agreed to disagree. That was with her first. 2 years later her second got sick with whooping cough and nearly died from it. The torture that little guy went through until he got better lasted 2 months. Ever heard a baby with whooping cough? I assure you, it will hurt your heart. I didn't read that somewhere. It happened in front of me. No it is not your responsibility to protect my children but it is your responsibility to not harm them.

We did all the childhood vaccinations with our daughter. What we did NOT do was the Gardasil vaccination. It's too new and under tested, IMHO.

Strange but true - we used to 'rub elbows' with one of the fellas who invented that vaccine. (kids in same school) He was very proud of his work on it. I didn't tell him what I thought of his vaccine. This fella thought he had helped humanity but I think it's way too early to say that.

Ignorance points for the lot of you! Vaccines are literally the greatest invention in human history. There are an uncountable number of lives cut short by these diseases we so easily can avoided. No, you would see the world burn before you admit that you don't know everything.

originally posted by: SkepticOverlord

originally posted by: InverseLookingGlass
There is no anti vaccination movement.

You've been misinformed

There is also a statist movement to force medical interventions on perfectly healthy people --at gunpoint if necessary.

There is currently no gunpoint for parents opting out of childhood vaccinations. There should be other restrictions/penalties, but no guns. Just forms to fill out.

Please start with human destruction caused by the initial release of the live virus Measles vaccine in the 60's

That has nothing to do with the contemporary vaccines.

Does this guy's website work it our correctly? I mean, the tables he uses, do these specify if the ill/dead people have been vaccinated or not? I couldn't work it out, but I'm a bit slow.

Q: How do you calculate the number of Vaccine Preventable Illnesses?
A: I use two tables from the Centers For Disease Control And Prevention’s Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Reports. Table I contains the weekly reported case numbers of the following vaccine preventable diseases: Diphtheria, Haemophilus Influenzae Serotype B (HIB), Measles, Meningococcal Disease A C Y & W-135, Poliomyelitis, and Poliovirus. Table II contains the weekly reported case numbers of the following vaccine preventable diseases: Hepatitis A, Hepatitis B, Mumps, Pertussis (Whooping Cough), Rubella (Table I prior to 2015), Tetanus (Table I prior to 2015), and Varicella (Chickenpox). Here is an example of Table I and here is an example of Table II.

Q: How do you calculate the number of Vaccine Preventable Deaths?
A: The vast majority of the deaths listed are for Influenza-Associated Pediatric Mortality taken from Table I of the CDC MMWR. Annual death data for all other diseases are reported in the National Vital Statistics Reports. However, the National Vital Statistics Reports are three years delayed which means that the 2007 death data was reported in 2010, the 2008 death data was reported in 2011, and so on.

Site

One thing is, it mentions an autism count. Most people I know aren't scared of autism. They are against the idea of trusting huge corporations to produce a liquid that gets put in their body. Because we can't trust them to look after their societies by paying tax etc correctly so why should we trust them with this important thing?

Let the herds take the vaccine, I'll be fine without it thanks.

Herd Immunity

a reply to: SkepticOverlord

What about my freedom to be able to send my children to school and group events with the assurance that no other kids might be carrying preventable diseases?

well...if you've been a good little soldier and vaccinated your kids as you are now arguing...than you should have nothing to worry about. Only the anti waxer's kids will get sick...since your kids would be protected by the vaccine...I see no problem here.

a reply to: MarioOnTheFly

Classic anti-logic by some one who has no clue how diseases work. Maybe before you deign it necessary to spout off opinions you should take a basic biology. Your statement is at odds with what is literally common knowledge. Basic information you learn in first year biology.

a reply to: TsukiLunar

do tell...since you put effort into commenting but said nothing in the end.

originally posted by: TsukiLunar
a reply to: MarioOnTheFly

Classic anti-logic by some one who has no clue how diseases work. Maybe before you deign it necessary to spout off opinions you should take a basic biology. Your statement is at odds with what is literally common knowledge. Basic information you learn in first year biology.

Yeah as others have said.... I thought if you were vaccinated then it would be those not vaccinated who would get ill? Herd immunity?

Unless the disease has a chance to mutate in the non vaccinated people then it will infect the vaccinated people too?

Help us out here.

EDIT: Your post above this one > I will reread the thread, must have missed something.


OK I see it now:
Can still get measles if vaccinated

Free people should have the right to decide what does or does not get injected into your body. I am completely against the concept of the State determining our healthcare - that is not the purpose of government.

Also I think the OP is BS. This ATS "series" is stupid.

a reply to: and14263

Have you not read the thread? Viruses mutate in unpredictable ways when you let them continue to exist. If you give them room to grow, then even the vaccinated can get sick. This is the reason flu vaccine are only 30 percent effective.