Let's Cut To The Chase, Cut The Crap, And Talk About Radical Terrorism On A Real Level

a reply to: kaylaluv

The Quran is just as peaceful and/or violent as the Bible is. Not much difference between the two books. Because of that, blaming either book is silly. It's not the book that's the problem. How do you reconcile the fact that Leviticus says homosexuals are an abomination and should forfeit their lives, when Jesus says we should treat everyone with love and kindness and mercy? How do your reconcile the fact that the Quran says the infidels should be killed, but Mohammed also says that any Christian or Jew who loves God and does good will go to heaven.

You are barking up the wrong tree.
I am well aware of what is in the book of Leviticus.
But I am not pushing any religion. Nor do I blame any religion. I also blame bad people.
I just stated what I have 'learned' at ATS.

a reply to: kaylaluv

(9:5) And when the forbidden months have passed, kill the idolaters wherever you find them and take them prisoners, and beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them at every place of ambush.

You lost me....You were talking about Jesus and then jumped to the Quran...?...

You will also have to ask another with more knowledge than I about Jesus "fulfilling the law" and all that jazz.

Here is what I see....Modern day Christians (the ones I know) interpret (for the most part) the "New" testament to be a sort of "deleting" of the "old".....again, I am not Christian, nor Muslim, nor do I find any reason to religiously affiliate at all......I believe it to be cancerous to our world and it diverts our attention from true spirituality.

I believe the bible has be "tainted" just as other texts and that the words of Jesus have been skewed. I interpret it to be a more "gnostic" (though not at the same time..and yes, I'm talking out of both sides of my mouth here) view personally.

I believe Jesus was talking about transcending the flesh, consciously, with intent.
I could go on, but it won't make sense and I honestly don't want to vest a bunch of time in it all....not here, not in this thread...

touchy subject.....
I should have just stayed away from it, to be honest....lol

a reply to: butcherguy

Oh. Apologies. What I learned on ATS is that there are many narrow-minded "simpletons" who don't really know what they are talking about (present company excepted of course

a reply to: TKDRL

My clarity on this is not absolute...so I will comment no further.

That being said, I want to say that I do NOT generalize all of ANY religions just because evil people use their religion as a crutch to justify and rationalize their evil doing.........so, just for the sake of being clear, I think I need to say that.

I will now graciously bow out of this one...

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: butcherguy

Oh. Apologies. What I learned on ATS is that there are many narrow-minded "simpletons" who don't really know what they are talking about (present company excepted of course

I was simply quoting what I have read here.
You were very quick to jump and make me out to be a Christian Holy Roller, Bible in hand.... hating Muslims. I have learned that many pseudo-intellectuals like to fight, even when there is no good reason to do it.

a reply to: Jakal26
I suppose we are starting to stray pretty far off the OP anyway. I guess the thing about "radicals", is most don't look at themselves that way, as they are the norm in their minds. It's not really absolute, I know I am pretty radical when it comes to my strict enterpretation of the constitution lol.

a reply to: TKDRL

Yeah, we are.

There are MANY radicals, and I suppose that is more in line with the OP....
I don't think any set out to "do evil"....I believe all seek to rationalize and justify their actions in some way that in their twisted minds' is "good"...

It really is true that "good intentions" (interpretation differs) really do pave the path to hell....

originally posted by: butcherguy

I was simply quoting what I have read here.

And what would be your point in doing that? Certainly it wasn't in any way to demean or invalidate statements made by people defending the Muslim religion, was it. Of course it wasn't.

originally posted by: kaylaluv

originally posted by: butcherguy

I was simply quoting what I have read here.

And what would be your point in doing that? Certainly it wasn't in any way to demean or invalidate statements made by people defending the Muslim religion, was it. Of course it wasn't.

Did I demean any person?
Hmmm?

originally posted by: butcherguy

originally posted by: kaylaluv

originally posted by: butcherguy

I was simply quoting what I have read here.

And what would be your point in doing that? Certainly it wasn't in any way to demean or invalidate statements made by people defending the Muslim religion, was it. Of course it wasn't.

Did I demean any person?
Hmmm?

Your sarcasm is not lost on this "pseudo-intellectual", my friend. Just as my sarcasm is not lost on you.

originally posted by: kaylaluv

originally posted by: butcherguy

originally posted by: kaylaluv

originally posted by: butcherguy

I was simply quoting what I have read here.

And what would be your point in doing that? Certainly it wasn't in any way to demean or invalidate statements made by people defending the Muslim religion, was it. Of course it wasn't.

Did I demean any person?
Hmmm?

Your sarcasm is not lost on this "pseudo-intellectual", my friend. Just as my sarcasm is not lost on you.

Please point out where I demeaned anyone in that post.
And I was not referring to you with the above term.

a reply to: Malynn

Finland is the one place I've not yet spent time in. But your experiences with having presumably lived in just one Euro country automatically disproves everything I've said?

Finland has a population of roughly 5 million, out of those there are 60,000+ Muslims. That's roughly 1.2% (giver or take a few .x's.)

Norway: Roughly 5.50 million with over 121,000 Muslims. Whereas 53,000 Muslims live in Oslo alone. (Roughly 8.5% of the total "Osloneans")

Oslo, which isn't as big as Finland, but has almost as many Muslims living there as the entire Finnish country is experiencing a lot of issues with Islam. So are smaller communities. Sorry, but your narrow experience with living here in Europe doesn't cut it. Not by a long shot. Not even within Finland. You fail to see the culture that is so prevalent with so many Muslims. The line they draw between themselves, and us, the infidel.




In case you didn't watch the video above, it's about an eight year old child in Oslo who is the only white child at his school. It goes on to tell about how he was bullied at school, and at home, by other Muslim children. If this doesn't highlight a problem, I don't know what will. It was originally aired on NRK television.

Yes, the above incident regards children. And children can be cruel. However, where do they get the idea that it's "OK" to bully someone because they're Christian? The parents.

The crime statistics also do not lie. Since Norway opened it's borders in 1987 to mass immigration, crime has risen. It first started to rise in Oslo, and as these immigrants moved outwards to other "kommuner" (communities) the crime rates locally also increased. Places within Oslo have literally become no go zones for many ethnic Norwegians. Some Norwegian police will not enter these zones without being armed, or with two or three other police cars as escorts.

You can say what you want, you can deny the reality of what's going on to suit your politically correct view of the world. However, it's not changing or preventing what's happening across Europe.



(A friends sister is one of those statistics...)

I've seen so much of this stuff happen with my own two eyes. A friend of mine back in 2007 was dating a Muslim man. She was beaten to an inch of her life because she wanted to break up with him. However, he was under the opinion that "No Norwegian dog will break up with me!". She even had to go with a "trygghetsalarm" (security alarm connected to a mobile network) that was linked to the police for months after the attack.

Back in 2005ish, I was at a work party with a friend from the U.K. and was having a good time. He and I were speaking English naturally discussing the differences in cultures from the U.K., the U.S., and Norway. During this conversation we heard someone behind us ask, "Did you like the gift?". Both of us turned around and a Muslim man was sitting in a chair, we ask him to repeat himself as we were thinking he was going to toss a joke our way. "Did you like the gift we gave you?" he said again. I asked what he meant and his reply was, "September 11th".

Our hostess promptly apologized and asked him to leave, however neither my friend or I were much in a party humor after that. We worked with this guy, he's always been sand-offish but always relatively nice. I guess a couple of glasses of alcohol really DOES remove all inhibitions...

I moved to Sweden a couple of years after I came to Norway due to my work needing me elsewhere. This was a small place, I liked it and I quickly adapted to my new surroundings. Stores were literally within five minutes from my apartment, I'd shop nearly everyday. I had an old military backpack with an American flag patch stitched on the flap which I'd use to ferry my groceries in. I went to go shopping, finished up my business and packed my groceries in the bag and left. As I walked outside, there was a small group of Middle Eastern men standing next to a light pole speaking Arabic.

As I walked past, I nodded with a smile. A few seconds after that, I hear a yell behind me. I turn around only to have a fist placed directly in my face. I fall to the ground and am kicked by two or three men. Thankfully a couple of bystanders yelled for them to stop and that they called the police, these guys high tailed it. I had to go to the hospital, broken ribs and all.

I can only surmise my American flag "triggered" them resulting in my little "Welcome to Sweden" beat down. Needless to say, I quit going to that store and started to leave my backpack at home.

Fast forward to about a year ago. I was going to a seminar here in Norway, I got to know a Muslim guy from Albania. We got to talking during one of the breaks and I found out he was a fellow conspiracy theorist. I told him about this website, we talked every day throughout the week long seminar about all manner of things. During a lunch break one day, I was invited to join him and a friend of his for lunch.

We went to a quaint little Chinese place where his friend was already waiting for us. Another Muslim, this time from Somalia. We sat down, and started talking about everyday things. The Somalian guy asked me how long I had been here in Norway and things like that. The discussion started taking a turn for the worse when his hatred for Norway and Norwegians started to shine through. I sat there in awe for a good five minutes as he berated the "damn Norwegian Christians" and the government for all sorts of reasons.

I had to excuse myself and leave. This is also one of the Muslims that told me that no matter how long, or even if you're born here, you'll never be a Norwegian. (Referring to Muslims in Norway.)

I have no further interest in discussing the topic as I feel I've had my say. Hopefully some will take this to heart and do a little digging on their own, others will continue to believe whatever it is they choose to believe.

a reply to: Auricom

Easy to be all touchy feely for those who do not experience the heat of a fire on their skin but observe from afar. They just think it is pretty as its light shines never realizing just how truly painful that pretty flame can be on their expose flesh.

We have had 10,000 people killed for doing nothing but being non-Muslim over the last few years. In over 40 years the only time I have ever been approached to quote "beat my a$$" was by a middle eastern dude at a restaurant.

Yep he could have been from anyplace or even a non-Muslim but he wasn't.. Hahaha I was at a very nice hotel having breakfast and he just walked up to my table and after rudely putting out a cigarette in a dish on the table informed me he wanted to kick my a$$.. I was the only European/Canadian/USA round eye guy eating at that time of morning so I suppose I was easy to pick out ?

Germany is home to an estimated 4.3 million Muslims, one million Kurds and 60,000 Yazidis. According to the 2013 annual report (published in June 2014) of the German domestic intelligence agency, the Bundesamt für Verfassungsschutz [BfV], Germany is also home to 30 active Islamist groups and 43,000 Islamists, including 950 members of the Lebanese terrorist group Hezbollah, 1,300 members of the Muslim Brotherhood and 5,500 Salafists. 5,500 is a small number in a population such as Germanys, no ?

Salafism is a radically anti-Western ideology that openly seeks to replace democracy in Germany (and in other parts of the West) with an Islamic government based on Sharia law.

Salafism is all over Europe and can be called by another name but the end result and thought process is the same. Although Salafists make up only a fraction of the Muslims in Germany, authorities are increasingly concerned that many of those attracted to Salafi ideology are impressionable young Muslims who are susceptible to perpetrating terrorist acts in the name of Islam which goes back to one of my first post in this thread about cancer metastasizing ...

An estimated 450 German Muslims have traveled to Syria and Iraq, and at least 100 are now believed to have returned to Germany; a growing number of German politicians are receiving death threats from the believed German Salafists.

The way to fix a problem is to recognize the problem exist in the first place. I must admit though it is hard to find all the chickens when the hen house door has been left wide open..

I always think the gun owners in America are actually correct when they say, " Most anti gun ownership people are one robbery or one mugging away from being a gun owner"...

a reply to: 727Sky

About ten years ago I got jumped in a bar by a Budweiser delivery guy because he got it in his head that my date was flirting with him and he cold cocked me out of the blue.

Does that mean that all Budweiser delivery guys are violent cheap shot artists? Should we ban them?

The whole concept of thinking of a massive plurality with a singular lens is irrational and the point of this thread. Europe may well have a different set of problems to face regarding Islam than the US does - I can't argue that as I only know what I read and discuss regarding Europe. But to think that there is even a remote chance that it would happen in the US is in the realm near impossibility. We have our own violent religious fundamentalists waging their own holy war here.

a reply to: Hefficide

As I have implied or stated in my other post one cannot blame all for the actions of the few. I have also said there are a few cancerous cells in the religion that are trying to metastasize and turn the who belief system into a Us and Them holy war of ideas.

You do not believe it could happen in America (barring Boston and Ft. Hood) and at the present percentage of the population I agree.. Maybe a few incidents but nothing like some of the out and out riots they have had in Germany... The gloves will come off just about the 5% figure as they have all over the world according to those who look at such things.. I have posted the same report in another thread as another poster published the percentage of population and what happens at 2, 4, 5% and there after.. We all live in our own world.. Our life's experiences are part and parcel of our ideas ..

Those who live and have never been faced with racism or being hated for the color of their skin or their religious belief's find it had to believe there are those who foster hate and are willing to kill, just because.

It really does not matter what you or I believe we are not out beheading and killing people.. If the time table is correct Europe and other countries where the percentage of their Muslim population increases over a couple of percent then the freedom of movement thing starts and then everything else follows.. Just the way it is, IMO.

originally posted by: Hefficide

Some of my mothers older brothers were involved in some pretty henious things that I cannot be specific about. Let's just say I was born near Boston and they pretty much controlled things there.

That may be the same type of mechanism at work here.

It does not take long for the old world beliefs to die away and the new world influences to become predominant.

So one sibling escaped that mentality.. a woman.
Now there may be specific differences in the situations that apply, between America and France. But one thing I have pointed out is the marked difference between the muslim women and men here- where the men can get stirred to fighting whatever they see as the obstacle to their power, the women, out of concern for their offspring, get prepared to adapt to whoever or whatever seems to be the more powerful force. As a woman, I can understand this.

In France, another factor is the fear of the french authorities of being accused of racism, which spurs them to not respond in force to the young arabs who seek some sort of opposition. I have friends who are police and they are given strict orders to not react to crimes being committed by arabs. It provokes too much trouble, they say. They still carry a lot of guilt about the Vichy regime collaborating with the Nazi's, and repeating "never again". So the young troubled children of these immigrants come up against no power in the french.

So they look for some bigger force to answer to, which will make them feel part of something bigger and stronger than themselves. When the Islamist recruiters come in, they have a need to fill.

The women, scared, will probably just adapt to whoever poses a bigger threat to their children.

a reply to: Hefficide

Stupid stupid analogy.

If Budweiser delivery guys in virtually every major city in the world were suddenly cold-cocking people then the anwer would be pretty damned clear, dontcha think?

a reply to: 727Sky

I know one thing: They (radical Islam) starts rioting and causing prolems in Texas there will be a lot fewer of them around in a hurry. At some point in time the BS is going to hit a nerve with locals one too many times and then the few will become the fewer....it's human nature. I am also pretty damned sure that there will be a lot of innocents that will be unjustly treated. I am sure the radicals, who use women and children as human shields, wont give a damn about that...

originally posted by: kaylaluv
Most younger generations don't become more conservative than their parents - they become less conservative. If I were a youth with devout Muslim parents, and I saw my parents not being successful because they just keep to themselves and don't assimilate with the rest of the community in which they live, and I also saw that moderate Muslims who have no problem working with, for and alongside "nonbelievers" were more successful - that would tell me that being more moderate in my Muslim beliefs is the way to more success.

But you turned it around backwards! From what I can see, it is the moderate muslims that are unsuccessful.
I do not consider that to be a direct result of their religious practices though. The people have a cultural behaviorism and conditioning that impedes their success in this country. The reason I don't think it is religious is because those from the Middle East that are NOT muslim, still have the same behaviorisms!

The behaviorism is what I call more "social", someone else here called it "tribal".... but interacting with people is of utmost importance, they put their energy into talking with others. Outside their neighborhoods, they hang out in huge groups, talking, all the time. They move slowly- I know this sounds impossible to attribute to a whole peoples, but I swear it appears to be so. Ten minutes to walk across a room of ten feet. At my work, a second generation Algerian, whose parents are not muslim ( and never have been) does this. He avoids any effort at work, and seems to purposely provoke reprimands and corrections. I asked why he does this, and he laughed that he wants to have others doing so. He just got fired. He's been through quite a few jobs like this. He has three kids and a wife? But it doesn't change his behavior.

The moderate muslim parents are very social, very nice, super affable- but you just don't want to hire one.

So this is what the kids see of moderates. People who can't hold a job, or get paid very little. But they're considered very nice.

Then the drug dealers come into the picture- they've got kalshinkovs, and drive expensive cars. They are feared, and have entire neighborhoods under control as police no-go zones. Who looks more successful? The nice or the not nice people?

So radical Islam comes in and offers this- you won't be a bad guy, you'll be a good guy! With just as much firepower as the bad guys, but you'll be rightious and a warrior for God! And you'll be part of a powerful peoples, who are, at the base, YOUR people anyway.

They're trying to keep the recruiters out, but it is hard, they don't put a sign on their head. They also are reaching a lot of this kids through internet.


-poor is a relative term. Here, everyone is guaranteed housing and food, so the immigrants who are given an aprtment and food in their bellies consider themselves "successful", they are happy with that. Their kids grow up exposed to the western media, and ideas of success that go beyond that, and find themselves discontent with that which their parents have. But being so ingrained with that cultural principal that "it is who you know, not how hard you work", they don't get there through the methods we do.

This guy that just got fired? He got the position through making friends with the syndicate, who threatened the boss with accusations of racism if he didn't employ this guy in a higher position. That validates his idea of the value of making friends with the right people, and he will continue to use that principle, even if it doesn't hold up in the long run.

originally posted by: bbracken677
a reply to: Hefficide

Stupid stupid analogy.

Oh he knows it, but he's so caught up in being a Muslim apologist and deflector of Muslim criticism.