Russian Tanks Move Across Ukraine Border: NATO Chief Breedlove

Only comment to add is we should be more respectful to other folks on this board concerning this conflict because multiple members are in the danger zone if this kicks off full force.

It is not a big game of risk, people you are acquainted with could die if the big war some in this thread have wished for occurred.

a reply to: Xcathdra

I am not blaming "just the US" I am getting a feeling of "this has happened before", and the 100 year anniversary of WW1 makes me nervous. I'm probably too old at 43 to be dragged into this sort of shenanigan. But at the same time, nukes have a nasty habit of being waved about by Russian and the USA (and allies). Waved around like phalluses

Well, that was a bust.
Ukraine sends in their varsity team. Russia sends their JV.

That sums up this farce.


~ Theres gonna be no war. Just a 'frozen conflict'. The U.S. has their hands full with the Middle East. Merkel is even beginning to back off from further sanctions & the rest of the EU gang is having economic difficulties from all of this non-sense. EU is double-thinking about the money they're sending to Ukraine, because Ukraine's economy is absolutely toast. EU is just giving them enough to make it to another month lol.

a reply to: Noinden

I agree to an extent however the comment about nukes has been waved around by Russia and a lot. I have not seen the Us or any western nation threatening the use of nukes. With that stated if you have a source shoot me a link and I will read it.

As far as shenanigans I don't see it as such. Its an honest observation that occurs more often than not. Pick any Ukraine thread and you will see counter arguments that only deal with the US.

As for this happening before, it has. It started shortly after world war 2 and ended with the collapse of the soviet union. Putin wants to relive what he saw as the glory days and even though he states he has no desire to reinstate the soviet union his most recent comments about Crimea and Ukraine just don't support his statements.

Putin ignored the treaties they signed with Ukraine and proclaimed Ukraine and its borders as illegal. The uptick in tensions and aggressive actions is based solely at Putins door step.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Ehh I don't know mate, I grew up in the shadow of the mushroom cloud (sorry Queen reference) I mean the cold war. The strategic placing of nukes near Eastern Block (and counter placements from the Eastern Bloc) really is a lot of dick waving. The 80's was full of the "Oh you have nukes, well I am going to try and counter that with some Scifi tech" by the US as well.

Back to the point, I see similarity to the run up to WW1 in that we have move, counter move, threats to attack etc. All we need is someone important to some nation to get assassinated and its' a replay. Different players (well sort of) same result.

Of course this might all "blow over" and somewhere else will go up like a Chinese candle on Guy Fawks night.

a reply to: APT1Yksnidnak

If I had to guess I think it was intentional that Churkin was not present. However I dont think it means this was a farce and that is based on the OSCE reports.

This was the 2nd time that it was brought up at the UN that Russia is preventing the OSCE observers from fulfilling their mission. Russia likes to claim it was their idea yet they don't like people talking about the fact they have it locked in at 2 kilometers instead of the border of 400 kilometers.

Churkin got pissed at the last UN meeting on Ukraine when Ukraine's ambassador raised Russia's blocking of the OSCE mission.

Each time we see a meeting and hear reports from the UN staff or OSCE we keep hearing more and more evidence of Russias involvement.

as for Merkel she stated what was stated at the UN. If Russia comply with its agreement sanctions can be rolled back. She did state there are no new sanctions planned but it has not been ruled out. France has also stated conditions have not been met for the delivery of the Mistral class vessel to Russia. Its looking like that vessel might be going to the Canadian Navy.

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: tavi45
a reply to: Noinden

It's almost a guarantee at this point. America won't back down and neither will Russia.

This is one of the issue I constantly see.

Its NOT just the US. Something you guys really need to start thinking about and understanding.

I only see you perpetuating the idea that it's all Russia's fault and only Russia's fault.

a reply to: Noinden

Possibly but right now I am failing to see who might be the 21st century equivalent of Ferdinand.

As for threats I see them coming from Russia. Russia is the one who is violating sea and airspace of NATO countries. Running bombing runs etc.

My question is do we really think appeasement will stop Putin. I know Europe views this as a Ukrainian issue, which is how they saw some countries in the lead up to WWII.

If Ukraine is "sacrificed" by Europe do we think Russia will stop there? they are showing aggression towards Poland as well as Baltic nations.

a reply to: tavi45

From my point of view and information it is Putins fault.

Putin is the one throwing the temper tantrum about demanding the west respect him. Putin is the one threatening nations with nuclear weapons.

Russia was perfectly able to represent its interests in the world. Other nations have done so as well. Russia didnt like the way it was going and failed to get their position recognized by other nations as plausible.

If that were not the case then there would be loads of countries backing Russia. I dont see that do you?

a reply to: Xcathdra

I have no idea, I'm stuck down here in the antipodes in a little nation which trades with Russian, the US, China etc. We're technically US allies, and sure as hell have deployed our special forces (SAS) for them in the past.

I'm personally of the philosophy that all the big boys need to chill the hell out.

originally posted by: Noinden
I'm personally of the philosophy that all the big boys need to chill the hell out.

I completely agree.

originally posted by: Noinden
I have no idea, I'm stuck down here in the antipodes in a little nation which trades with Russian, the US, China etc. We're technically US allies, and sure as hell have deployed our special forces (SAS) for them in the past.

As I have stated before nations should not be forced into choosing who they do business with. There should be no reason Ukraine cannot do business with Russia and the EU. A nation should be allowed to have military relations with whomever they choose.

Nations should not be pu8nished for choosing a path that runs counter to another nation.

that mindset applies in both directions.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Treaties hold weight however. New Zealand told the US that it would not allow its warships into our ports in the 1980s, unless it told us they did not carry nukes (or were nuclear powered). The US understandably were not going to do that. SO we as a nation suffered a little, and had one terrorist attack on our soil (the French sunk the green peace flag ship the Rainbow warrior in Auckland harbour, killing one photo journalist). The US did not warn us. The UK did not warn us. WE caught some of the French agents, imprisoned them, then got more sanctions (from the French).

This story shows that treaties hold power. The ANZUS treaty we broke, meant we suffered a little.

So if the US asks us to send troups (we are treatied up again) ... we should probably send them. Now we are unlikely to send more than our very fine SAS, but its still something we should do.

However if we are not asked, we should keep trading our milk and meat products to any who pay.

a reply to: Xcathdra

"Nations should not be pu8nished for choosing a path that runs counter to another nation."

Tell that to Libya, Iraq, Iran or any of the numerous African, Asian, European and Latin American countries that America has dictated terms to through military invasions, CIA or other clandestine operations, economic controls (IMF loans, sanctions etc), propaganda campaigns, and all the other tools in its arsenal.

We disrupted and ruined entire nations over the price of bananas and that's undeniable fact accepted openly by America

a reply to: Xcathdra

What is really pissing off Russians and Putin is statements like this

Russia is the one who is violating sea and airspace of NATO countries.

One day they say that it was in international airspace, but the other day they will already claim that Russia systematically violating sovereign airspace of some NATO countries. And propaganda will say 100 times this lie and may be just once that it was still in internationally agreed "no man area".

a reply to: tavi45

And the most frustrating things about your post is that you say most Americans "accepted openly". I feel if you accept it, as in you are conscious of it and choose to do nothing about it, you in lack of action are supporting it. Those who accept it or know these things and do nothing need to wake up. They know that their government (whoever is actually controlling it) are destroying people home and abroad in the name of control, how can anyone sleep well at night knowing this. It no longer good enough to say i knew this, people need to stand up, stand together and stop this.

a reply to: Xcathdra

as for Merkel she stated what was stated at the UN. If Russia comply with its agreement sanctions can be rolled back. She did state there are no new sanctions planned but it has not been ruled out. France has also stated conditions have not been met for the delivery of the Mistral class vessel to Russia. Its looking like that vessel might be going to the Canadian Navy.

Russia would be fool to believe on just the word of Merkel. NATO shouldn't be expanded beyond West+East Germany, they believed once on many reassuring words

www.spiegel.de...
But how could the Soviet leadership be persuaded to support this solution? "I wanted to help them over the hurdle," Genscher told SPIEGEL. To that end, the German foreign minister promised, in his speech in Tutzing, that there would not be "an expansion of NATO territory to the east, in other words, closer to the borders of the Soviet Union." East Germany was not to be brought into the military structures of NATO, and the door into the alliance was to remain closed to the countries of Eastern Europe

As for Mistral deal. It is not that simple that France is just selling Mistral for 1 $bln cash. There was another deal before and Russia delivered their part.

www.sputniknews.com...
France has put aside some $1 billion to buy 14 Soyuz carrier rockets from Russia, French satellite launch firm Arianespace CEO Jean-Yves Le Gall said Tuesday.

"We have ordered 14 Soyuzes from the Russian Federation; the contract's cost is about $1 billion. These are ambitious plans," Le Gall said at a Russian-French business forum, held as part of President Dmitry Medvedev's visit to France. His speech was broadcast by the Rossiya 24 TV channel.

The new deal marks another step in cooperation between Russia and France in the space sector. Arianespace signed a contact with Russia's space agency in 2008 for the launch of 10 Russian Soyuz-ST carrier rockets from the Kourou space center in French Guiana.

end of the same article

French President Nicolas Sarkozy said Monday after talks with Medvedev that Russia and France had started "exclusive talks" on the purchase of four French Mistral-class amphibious-assault ships.

He said two of the four Mistral-class ships under discussion could be built in Russia. The announcement of the talks confirmed earlier comments by a Russian Defense Ministry source that the sale would not be finalized during Medvedev's visit.

A Mistral-class ship is capable of transporting and deploying 16 helicopters, four landing barges, up to 70 vehicles including 13 battle tanks, and 450 soldiers. The vessel is equipped with a 69-bed hospital and can be used as an amphibious command ship.

Probably there are some undisclosed details of those deals.

originally posted by: liteonit6969
a reply to: tavi45

And the most frustrating things about your post is that you say most Americans "accepted openly". I feel if you accept it, as in you are conscious of it and choose to do nothing about it, you in lack of action are supporting it. Those who accept it or know these things and do nothing need to wake up. They know that their government (whoever is actually controlling it) are destroying people home and abroad in the name of control, how can anyone sleep well at night knowing this. It no longer good enough to say i knew this, people need to stand up, stand together and stop this.

I agree but most people are only concerned about their little bubble. They don't know it happened or dont really consider the full implication. There's also a small minority who will defend it, understanding the implications of it, mindlessly out of a misguided patriotism. They are often the loudest voices screaming about other nations doing the same or less.

a reply to: tavi45

Thats exactly the reason i feel is the biggest problem, people are too preoccupied surviving in their own bubble. But this bubble i feel has been mostly created by tptb. Through the manipulation of the money system most people are restricted to a structure that requires them to work all hours in order to barely get by. Any free time is spent trying to get a break from this reality, they dont want to see how messed up things really are. By keep the mass' noses' to the grinding stone they are ensuring there wont be a large scale outpouring of anger. And just to finish off their bubble they have thrown in the media and social networks which are the worst things i have ever seen....people willfully giving open access to their lives. The media spoon feed them the news they want them to know and so many people i know are content with this. I cant understand it.....am i in a bad nightmare?

a reply to: Noinden

Interesting since the US has an agreement with Japan about notification of nuclear presence.

a reply to: kitzik

Except in those statements where Russia has violated territorial airspace Russia has not denied it.