Russian Tanks Move Across Ukraine Border: NATO Chief Breedlove

a reply to: kitzik

NATO has never agreed to not expand east - See the link in my signature line for more information.

Under French law the business is not responsible for actions the government takes that adversely affect them.

a reply to: tavi45

Justifying Russian action by using the term Russian near abroad does not work. Putin trying to argue the country of Ukraine is no country is not going to work.

a reply to: Xcathdra

NATO has never agreed to not expand east - See the link in my signature line for more information.

Under French law the business is not responsible for actions the government takes that adversely affect them.

See the article I linked. Russia would be fool to believe the words of such as Merkel's. Bismark - may be, but Merkel/Gensher and their ilk - not in this century, while Germany remains protectorate of USA.

As for France, I don't care if they don't deliver Mistral, I just pointed out that reluctance of France to be a poodle of Fashignton (not a full compliance) have some hidden French commitments to other party.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: tavi45

Justifying Russian action by using the term Russian near abroad does not work. Putin trying to argue the country of Ukraine is no country is not going to work.

Huh? I didn't follow that. The first sentence didn't make much sense grammatically to me.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Japan is more strategically important than New Zealand

a reply to: ispyed

I wish NATO would disappear. It was only relevant during the old cold war and now it is creating a new cold war.

Um no?


The Budapest Memorandums

On December 5, 1994 the leaders of Ukraine, Russia, Britain and the United States signed a memorandum to remove nuclear weapons in Ukraine. They all signed six agreements for Ukraine, the agreements are:

The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America reaffirm their commitment to Ukraine, in accordance with the principles of the Final Act of the Conference on Security and Cooperation in Europe, to respect the independence and sovereignty and the existing borders of Ukraine;

The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America reaffirm their obligation to refrain from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Ukraine, and that none of their weapons will ever be used against Ukraine except in self-defense or otherwise in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations;

The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America reaffirm their commitment to Ukraine, in accordance with the principles of the Final Act of the Conference on Security and Cooperation in Europe, to refrain from economic coercion designed to subordinate to their own interest the exercise by Ukraine of the rights inherent in its sovereignty and thus to secure advantages of any kind;

The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America reaffirm their commitment to seek immediate United Nations Security Council action to provide assistance to Ukraine, as a non-nuclear-weapon State party to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, if Ukraine should become a victim of an act of aggression or an object of a threat of aggression in which nuclear weapons are used;

The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America reaffirm, in the case of Ukraine, their commitment not to use nuclear weapons against any non-nuclear weapon State party to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, except in the case of an attack on themselves, their territories or dependent territories, their armed forces, or their allies, by such a State in association or alliance with a nuclear-weapon State;

Ukraine, the Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America will consult in the event a situation arises that raises a question concerning these commitments.

Ukrainian Forces Concentrate Along Front Line: Russia

"On the contrary, over the past period the ceasefire is actually turning into a concentration of Ukrainian forces [on the lines of the front]," Pankin said.

He also said that NATO's claims concerning the alleged movement of Russian forces on the territory of Ukraine were "propagandistic falsifications", as no proof of it has been provided.

"We are also hearing broad declarations from NATO regarding the sending of convoys and Russian fighters from Russia. But that isn't actually reflecting the situation on the ground. These are empty statements and the usual propagandistic falsifications," Pankin said.

www.sputniknews.com...

a reply to: IntroduceALittleIrony

So that's why America won't openly support Ukraine militarily. They want to be the good guys saving Ukraine from invasion. Same old playbook, it's no surprise Russia saw through it.

Thanks for sharing the info.

a reply to: tavi45

They want to be the good guys saving Ukraine from invasion.

Yes, but they wouldn't hurry too much. From their POV two slavic nations killing each other which is good. And Europe on a short leash - another plus.

It is enough to freeze this situation on the western front of Eurasia. And start may be Tibet or Xinjang or Hong -Kong idk. All 3 ideas will be tested.

originally posted by: kitzik
a reply to: tavi45

They want to be the good guys saving Ukraine from invasion.

Yes, but they wouldn't hurry too much. From their POV two slavic nations killing each other which is good. And Europe on a short leash - another plus.

Reminiscent of WW1 or WW2 no? We took our sweet time intervening

a reply to: tavi45

Reminiscent of WW1 or WW2 no? We took our sweet time intervening

No. WW3 is their worst nightmare, no matter how they cry about depopulation, they want enough slaves.
Just to make USA as the only safe harbor - that would be enough to rule another 1000 years lol.

Also where are all these heavy weapons the separatists are using coming from

Wasn't sure if anyone has answered this fundamental question yet.

Yes, the entire debate hinges on it.

Where, dear reader are these rebels acquiring their heavy weaponry from exactly? Sweden? Canada? Pakistan? Nope!
Do they fashion them from twigs and back yard rubbish? Do they have vast underground factories?

THIS is why I know I'm right about Russian involvement.

It's not opinion, it's fact.
You see, Putin might think that we're all stupid. But you? Dear reader? Surely you don't believe that we are that daft??

Debate ended. Unless anyone has something credible to say about this very important fact.

originally posted by: kitzik
a reply to: tavi45

Reminiscent of WW1 or WW2 no? We took our sweet time intervening

No. WW3 is their worst nightmare, no matter how they cry about depopulation, they want enough slaves.
Just to make USA as the only safe harbor - that would be enough to rule another 1000 years lol.

I think they are actually down with it. All their long laid plans are starting to unravel. I think they underestimated China, Russia, and their own citizens. No one is being as compliant as they thought. Remember TPTB are greedy selfish children. They would rather break their toy than share it.

a reply to: canucks555
NATO is arming the west,not a shocker that Russia is arming the East
www.presstv.com...
www.bbc.com...

a reply to: all2human

I think that Putin supporters should have enough balls to tell it like it is, instead of making excuses and pretending that it isn't happening.

a reply to: canucks555
It Takes a willing hand to use them..
vs the other option,or lack of,conscription

a reply to: canucks555

I've been talking honestly and openly. I see more obfuscation and avoidance from your side :p

Stop calling us APOLOGISTS because we don't fall in line and verbally crucify Russia,for far less than America and England has been guilty of fora very long time! When women and children were dying in concentration camps in my country,it was ot the evil Russians responsible for the atrocities-it was the English-the empire on which the sun did'nt set-back in those days,from all the invading and pillaging and murdering and interfering! And the American government sends it's troops all over the world to do as they damn well please? What about Nato?
I do not have to apologise for Russia,and neither does anybody else-while Russia is no angel,She sure as hell looks to me like the WAY lesser of MANY other evils ,when we are talking in terms of nations,and national responsibility for invasions,wars,bloodshed,profiteering,atrocities and mass murder.I support Russia,and I shall Never apologise for that,or be ashamed of it.reply to: stirling

a reply to: tavi45

My side is simple. Ukraine is being cut in half and slowly invaded/manipulated by Russia and Russian hardware.

From what I understand your side is saying that Russia is doing nothing at all and we have to prove they are.

Where are the rebels getting their weapons from?

a reply to: canucks555
Ukraine was cut in half to begin with, along ethnic lines
adding to that they were and are going through massive economic upheaval.
This is a civil war being usurped by external powers, of which neither side is right
were seeing this all over the globe.