Aww poor college students boo hoo!

a reply to: AnonyMason

It's a very very sad day for any country when their citizens have two choices: Education through extortion and debt slavery, or little money working at a big box corp or chain store.

Unfortunately America's going through a Groundhog Day of sorts. Because that day came and it never went, it's still here.

It's not a complete scam, by any means. Nor is it as cut and dry, black and white as some would have you believe.
I am in my (early) 30's. From the point I graduated high school at 16, I tried the whole entrepreneur, as well as the climb the corporate ladder route. That route, sadly is no longer as viable as it once was. So, a few years ago I headed back to school and am now more than half-way through to achieving an advanced medical degree.

Is it indoctrination?

No.

Is it expensive?

Yes (heck yes)!

But, just like everything in life; you can't just expect to have everything handed to you for free.

That is the bigger issue here. Kids expect to graduate,and have this debt magically erased. But that isn't necessarily their fault. Only in the past year or so, have students (and depending on their age, their parents as well) been required at the University I attend, to partake in financial counseling as a requirement for admission. Prior to this, the students had no idea what they would be up against.

Should higher education be cheaper? Sure it should.

In fact, it should be free as some other countries have demonstrated.

But in closing, there are many professions that require higher education for a reason. And those attaining it shouldn't be marked as "indoctrinated/brainwashed".

The promise of automation was to increase productivity while giving people more leisure time. Like all promises made by corporations and politicians it was all words.

Every time they use a machine or technology to lessen the reliance on human beings they lay off human beings and leave the remaining workers with equal or greater work then before. The money saved by these innovations goes directly into the wallets of the corporate class.

People need to stop believing the myth of the "invisible hand of the market". The market isn't some magical force. It's directed by those at the top with money and control. Every problem today was engineered by the wealthy and their minions. They've been doing this all throughout history and periodically need to be reined in. Thanks to modern technology and the corrupting influence of money the mechanisms for controlling the robber barons have been sabotaged.

Those at the top have no loyalty or care for America and it's people. That's why they use tax shelters and inversions, as well as why they jumped in bed with China so rapidly. I'm hoping China does a better job than America did when they finally pull the rug out from under the complacent American/European elite.

a reply to: tavi45

Exactly and the people who run America aren't the US government. They control every world government, all the corporations. If they do something it's done for a reason.

The market is far from magical, it seems like that to the average person. Problem is, they keep everybody so distracted and complacent even with conditions that grow worse for many over time (less food, less money, etc) that no one cares to notice. And those who do are certainly swept under the rug.

The elite aren't American or Chinese or European. They just are, while running every system and orchestrating events for hundreds of years.

originally posted by: justme2
From the point I graduated high school at 16, I tried the whole entrepreneur, as well as the climb the corporate ladder route. That route, sadly is no longer as viable as it once was. So, a few years ago I headed back to school and am now more than half-way through to achieving an advanced medical degree.

You could be in for some BIG disappointments. Re-read my post, your situation is EXACTLY what I was illustrating:

I will begin with the usual assertion I hear in regards to the impact of these, soon to be real, “future-tech jobs", which contrary to beliefs of some, includes the trades and related "proprietary tech" that will not be repairable, only "replaceable by a certified/licensed tech".

“Someone has to get paid to fix the robots!”

I often hear this above noted rebuttal to mass automation in the workplace.

Many people generally do not bother to ask themselves, would future robotics consulting companies prefer to hire low work-experienced graduates, whom have demonstrated HANDS-ON, non-professional robotics experience, in the form of a “hobby portfolio”; OR a graduate with no “hobby portfolio” experience, whom worked hard to graduate with a difficult major, but didn’t have as much free time to develop skills specifically related to their major and instead having a long list of work experience, flipping burgers etc, unrelated to their major? I’m seeing this already happening in many different engineering fields, where the young workers being hired today are from wealthy families and great colleges, while at the same time are being trained by older folks whom were NOT necessarily as privileged in their youth, but got through school the 20th century way and were trained on the job, while paid, over long periods of time. This certainly is no longer an option in 2014 and on because companies would prefer to churn experienced staff from other companies, rather than train fresh graduates in-house.

Here is a modern example of a company with a big contract to fill and absolutely no "will" to increase wages to attract experience personnel, nor the desire to train inexperienced ones the job. Instead they put out a story on the web bellyaching:

bridgemi.com...

In the link below this paragraph I have posted an example of what I believe to be a young person, from a well off family, who majored in robotics at USC. She doesn’t appear to have had an unrelated part-time job to her major, while in college. She also seem to have had lots time to “experiment” with technology in her spare time, got a masters degree back to back to the bachelors AND at the end of the day got a job offer at a University sponsored dinner party for robotics majors. NOBODY I went to college with, EVER, got a job offer at a university sponsored dinner party. In contrast I’m sure many Ivy league and top 10 school graduates do however. My point being, these future “robot repair jobs” are going to require smart kids, with desire to advance, whom also went to good schools, had lots of spare time and money to play with the tech outside of school AND got their jobs offered at dinner parties, some of which will be non-paying internships at first. These jobs will not be gotten through sending out blind jobs applications or web job boards, as was done in the 20th century. Basically what this girl is doing for Disney will in the near future be more like what a plumber or electrician of today does, EXCEPT you won’t get trained on the job, in a low-pay apprenticeship when at “entry level”. In fact to even be considered for these “future-tech jobs” in the first place you’ll need to have good academic pedigree, lots of unpaid hobby time and 1+ years of unpaid internships.

Here is her story, readers can decide for themselves, my opinion is that this is what a career for a plumber is going to look like in 15+ years:

onedublin.org...

I don't know what medical field you are entering, but I work with hospitals and fresh graduates of any kind are NOT NEEDED at this time. Demand for certain types of medical staff is at an all time high, but that doesn't include FRESH GRADUATES. Just to give you some insight, some of the BEST children's hospitals in the USA are planning to reduce overall healthcare staff, but also increase staff numbers at the C-suite level and MARKETING! You would think that if they are doing this there must be some underlying financial issues right? Nope, they want to get more international patients that pay higher fees. Did you also know that many VERY experienced doctors are retiring because they were told, by the C-suite, that they need to adopt robotic surgery and medicine operations. BTW, fund raising for many of these hospitals are at an all time high, but even though they are non-profits, staff that do "the real work" must be reduced and those left shall become more "lean".

"Churn" existing knowledge workers and/or "H1-B" is what most companies are looking for in the USA.

Blue collar workers and tradesmen often bring home more money than doctors. Have any of you had to hire a plumber or mechanic? There are trade schools available and not everyone is college material. We have no common sense. Remember when young men use to work on highway crews to pay for college. What happened to being an apprentice and lead up to a journeyman?

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: sheepslayer247

We need a revolution of spirit and culture. One that fosters empathy and community, family and one that empowers leaders not destroys them.

We need to care about each other first before that nothing will change.

My, how you have changed your tune. Aren't you the guy that wanted all the baby boomers to die and get out of the way.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

a reply to: searching411

It's all about making kids think college is part of the natural progression. If it were only the courses you need for your major, if it wasn't complete extortion, debt slavery I'd think differently. I agree though, plus with the way medicine has been messed up with Obamacare (hospitals laying people off and leaving the incompetent workers) why would anyone want to become a doctor?

Medical skills will always be needed but plumbers, mechanics...are always in demand. They're expensive, but a good one is a blessing.

Or mortuary work, I see in the far future robots replacing morticians and post-mortem cosmetology work but not for a while. People will always die and always need to look lifelike, funerary work nearly always pays off.

a reply to: olaru12

It is kind of unfair that older generations have so much control of our nation even though their choices are selfish and the issues caused by them are crippling the nation and their own children and grandchildren. They all know they'll be dead by the time SHTF. It's sickening.

Should they all die? That's just crazy. Eugenics is never right. But it's a shame that so many live the sweet life at the expense of the lives of their descendants. They by and large won't retire and dominate politics and business. Oh well, I guess being the first generation of Americans that is worse off than their parents is all my fair right? I made those decisions when I was a toddler. I should have been smarter.

The whole "kids should have been smarter thing reminds of this ridiculous nonsensical article.

www.forbes.com...

You don't need college. If you want to do some jobs, you might. But if you want to enjoy your work, and make a decent wage, you don't need college. You just need to understand work is a competition, and your work ethic and performance have to make up for your lack of education.

Once you have a couple notches on your resume, finding a job is much easier. And if you are smart about it, you will position yourself to be desirable in the market you are seeking employment in. In other words, it does you no good to be a great welder in city full of great welders. But if you are a good personnel manager in a city full of welders, you might find yourself abble to vie for a site director level position.

Most students who are complaining about their college debt never worked while they were in school, and many took courses in which there were never any jobs, even in the good times pre 2008.

College has been a very bad idea ever since 2008, way before many students would have started their 3-4 year program.

Trades are screaming for people, and STEM professionals are in massively short supply, but more than 2/3 of university students are still taking arts courses in subjects that have always had low unemployment.

Don't spend $80,000 on a degree in art history or political science and then bitch that you can't pay your loans with a job in your chosen field.

The days of going to university just to get a degree in any field ended in about 1985.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

That's one problem with today's college students. They all believe they should be able to afford a great place, money to go out, spend on things. But reality is, it takes very hard work to put your "college skills" to work. Most of the graduates (younger generation) do not understand this, or somehow think they'll be rewarded for going through higher education.

Entitlement. It's no longer work hard, be rewarded for your dedication, effort and integrity it's be rewarded for earning a piece of paper. Sad to say it, but colleges now, unless you're specialized like engineering, medicine, useful science, is essentially forking over 10,000s of thousands of dollars for a piece of paper.

The salaries are generally better, positions, perks, ego but the problem is graduates are enslaved by debt and thus equal to the "lower academic classes". It's a circle. Cramming in a dorm room for a sociology exam doesn't free anyone from the circle.

Good thing you pointed out that it's the work that matters not the education (in most cases).

a reply to: tavi45

It is kind of unfair that older generations have so much control of our nation even though their choices are selfish and the issues caused by them are crippling the nation and their own children and grandchildren. They all know they'll be dead by the time SHTF. It's sickening.

I can't agree with you that it is unfair. The control wasn't just handed out where older generations simply received an unfair portion. People had to earn their positions. You make it sound like it was just given to them.

Should they all die? That's just crazy. Eugenics is never right.

Your eugenics comment has just demonstrated why kids need an education. Obviously you don't know what the word eugenics means.

Whose fault is it? Is it yours for not using the computer in front of you to look up the big words, your teachers, or parents? Maybe all of the above. Who knows but it seems everyday the country slips further into idiocracy. You wonder why younger generations don't have more control.

The system is broke and unfair but I don't see that changing when I read things like that.

a reply to: GreenMtnBoys

I'm pretty sure they wanted to get a job by bettering themselves. Only problem with that is they were lied too. The system is rigged. College creates drones for big business. It kills the drive and makes good slaves for multinational companies.

Competition is a sin. Greed is the bottom line and you never really stood a chance. You think you are living the American dream? Your kids are living the American nightmare. Good luck with you targeting the ones they told you to target. Guess what happens when they don't get a job. Guess what happens when they need to eat. They are going to eat the rich. Tell your government to quit giving them student loans. You can show them how insolvent the loans really are but I'm sure they know already. They can't change you but they are doing a number on your kids. Welcome to the machine. Next stop is in the # with a ruck sack on your back wondering why you are killing people for a profit you'll never see. To pay off your student loan of course.

How does evolution respond when people who suck at life aren't being killed before reproductive age? Because of what I know in order for a gene to be prevented from carrying over the person has to die very young. Any negatives a gene has at older ages, especially past reproductive age, are ignored.

I know some of the people who suck at life end up dying very young from various things and perhaps this slows the carryover, but if these people are having any kids then it won't stop completely.

I'm definitely not saying humans will have sex at every opportunity. Nowadays especially people are much more cautious. It used to be you give someone a reproductive age and out comes a baby.

a reply to: jonnywhite

Who makes the call? You? Are you qualified to do so? Maybe the moral majority is wrong because they were force fed bull# for so long.

a reply to: searching411

Just so you know trade jobs are are saturated ight now with multi year waits just to start an apprenticeship. That's how it is in my area and I work in a trade. I know 10 guys right now out of work who are hard workers that have talents in some form of carpentry that are out of consistent work just doing odd jobs to keep their heads afloat.

a reply to: olaru12

Are you still trolling?

What if I held you accountable to everything you've ever said forever?

How would that record look?

FBI what you said still doesn't invalidate the statement it just shows your level of maturity by choosing to respond with a post about me as a person rather then the content within the post itself.

reply to: Grimpachi

Actually I've been teaching myself since I was a child. I've always been a voracious reader and I always paid attention in class. Sadly I tried towards the end of high school to fit in with the low intelligence high social skills mainstream society. I'm still rebuilding my intelligence but I regret nothing because I've seen so much I wouldn't have if I just focused on school and was a know it all who thinks he's superior to everyone.

The best way to illustrate how those at the top didn't earn it is my father. He worked his ass off every day of his life at a job he hated. He saved and lived frugally. He managed to earn enough to get us into one of the richest towns in America. The owner of his company did pretty much no work. He delegated everything to his top staff like my father. My father made it almost to the top and was promised the position as the right hand guy. Street years of doing everything right when the job finally opened up the owner gave the position to his son. That's the definition of aristocracy. We just don't give the aristocrats the title of baron or duke these days. We call them by their fancy job titles.

Did every baby boomer do no work and just ruin everything? Of course not. Every generalization is innately false. The ones at the top definitely created a system of aristocracy though. The ones who worked hard and lived will did get suckered into letting the rich run the nation into the ground. After their hippy days they welcomed the comforts of modernity and let the businessmen at the top spent take more and more.

So are all baby boomers guilty? Of course not. That's as ridiculous as blaming all of Islam for the extreme minority of terrorists (baby boomers do that though lol) or blaming black people for the issues they face (baby boomers do that too......) Or blaming illegal immigrants for ruining everything (I'm starting to see a pattern here).

The point is the baby boomers dropped the ball and let the robber barons take over while they enjoyed the highest level of comfort and abundance in all of human history. They then brainwashed their children into doing exactly what they did while sheltering them in every way from learning about the real world and calling them stupid or lazy for every questioning the system. I wasn't even alive when the baby boomers let a celebrity become president and sell the wholr nation to big business. They still praise their messiah to this day. I'm very tired of my uncles and the rich guys whose spoiled kids don't know the meaning of work saying that if Reagan was here we wouldn't be in this mess.


Sorry if I used eugenics incorrectly. Would genocide be more appropriate for slaughtering all the older people? Point is I'm admitting killing all the old people is ridiculous as we all should know.

So apparently using the wrong word means I'm retarded and emblematic of how all young people are dumb too.

Eugenics mainly refers to reproduction and letting only the worthy pass on their genetic legacy. I use it in the sense of population control. This is because eugenics has been paired with mass genocide for a while now. What's the word for mass genocide for population control? I don't think they invented one. They don't want us talking about how they plan to kill almost everyone on earth while implementing eugenics.

Sorry if I'm using the term too loosely. I'm pretty sure Bill Gates just lumps it all into "the best idea ever".

What a mindset! I want all people not just children to be able to take courses as they wish, not just practical nuts and bolt slave ones but follow their dreams and would never ever entrench in any young person's mind the concept, its over, we blew it and didn't stand up for our economy or grass roots businesses and let them create overseas cottage industries, and instead of free enterprise we have fascist illegal pyramidal monopolies.

But dad, wait....doesnt that simply mean people need to start to their own businesses and start to buy, in fact pledge to buy from each other, and not from them?

And shouldn't we create our own presses too, so we can stay informed and form community groups everywhere, and vote in our own?

I mean its not set in stone except you're speaking for mindsets of your generation, evil minds??? You guys still don't get it?

Well dad, we're going to try, rather fail trying than not try at all.

I digress.....