Aww poor college students boo hoo!

originally posted by: GreenMtnBoys
a reply to: xDeadcowx

Oh please! All the younger generation can do these days is to blame the baby boomers! Get over it! These same kids who are complaining about the costs of college are the ones who's parents and grandparents have been running the government, voting idiotic politicians into office, and running corporations. I get your point. But young people need to buck the system instead of caving and continuing to be a part of it.

And to kx12x thanks for proving my point. Aww he was unhappy at 23 years old having a full time managerial job with a good company, probably a nice discount on high quality food, healthcare benefits, probably $12-18/hr, stock options, educational reimbursement. Awww….yeah wanna know how many Americans are probably "unhappy" with their job???? LMAO! It's called WORK not fun for a reason.

And all the older generations can do these days is to blame the younger generations. Get over it!

I still cannot understand how we do not have free university-level education in the United States. It is an investment in the country to do something like this, as there are more qualified people who will be working to better the country in a variety of ways. Many other countries have gone this route, as with healthcare, so to state that it is impossible would be incorrect. People should not have to go into hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt to receive an education in my opinion. Do you know why other countries can succeed in having free healthcare and secondary education? It is because they do not spend a fraction of the money that the US does on defense. That is where the majority of our tax dollars go, and for what? To defend against what threat exactly? Terrorism? Ha!

You cannot really fault the students who take on this debt, because they have had this impressed on them since they were young. You have to receive a college education to ensure a good-paying job and security. This was true for a time in the US, but nowadays there is no guarantee that an education will benefit you financially, and it very well could hurt you. Many universities offer degree programs to entice more students to come there, and many of these degrees are entirely useless, or are highly specialized. I don't think that some students realize how specialized these degrees are, and that they are not going to be able to do anything with them.

Of course if education was free then it would be even harder to find a job because there would be many more educated people, but at least people wouldn't be going into such debt, and would only be wasting their time, instead of wasting both their time and money. But this would also force certain changes, and would benefit the nation in the long run. Then there are people like me, who chose their degree based on personal interest. I knew that it would be difficult for me to take a traditional major and be interested enough to be happy with it, so I went the route of military history. I don't want to be an educator, which would be the most common option, and once that is off the table there are basically only specialized areas in which to find work.

a reply to: JiggyPotamus

No. You privatize profits and externalize costs and you make the people pay out of their own pocket for everything you can justify. This is how fascism works. ;p

I cannot comprehend why anyone can't just go to college for free. That's the way education should be, IMO, so that everyone can have a chance. The day loan sharks got their hands into education was a sad day. They have the whole world enslaved in debt, in many ways.

The high cost of tuition for a college education is going to cause colleges to price themselves right out of the market. They will have to close their doors as enrollment drops.

Universities are just like government, they over spend building fancy new campus buildings and dormitories, and than turn around and increase tuition to cover their extravagant spending! What gets me, is after they put you in debt, they have the nerve to call you after you graduate and ask you for college donations! Not to mention all the millionaires or well to do people who are already donating large sums of money to their Alma Matter.

It's unfortunate, but education whether it's trade schools or colleges is what makes our country a leader in innovation, and our economy strong. If a country doesn't value it's education and ignores making it financially affordable for all Americans, than we can say goodbye to our status as being a super power. We'll join the likes of 3rd world countries and our economy will tank.

I found this terribly relevant:

www.blacklistednews.com...

In what many people might consider to be a shocking finding, the Gallup Poll reported, on Thursday, October 2nd, that America’s college and university graduates with “Business” degrees (including MBAs) are (1) more bored by their work, (2) unhappier, and (3) poorer, than are graduates with degrees in the other three major categories, which are:

“Sciences/Engineering,”

“Social sciences/Education,” and

“Arts and Humanities.”

Here are the three categories of questions that were asked of 29,560 graduates in America, with B.A. or higher degrees:

1 (for measuring job-interest): “I am deeply interested in the work that I do.” (Agree or Disagree.)

2 (for measuring job-satisfaction): “I like [the work] I do every day,” and, “[At work] I learn or do something interesting every day.” (the two questions that are related to “Purpose Well-Being,” which Gallup uses internationally).

3 (for measuring job-pay): “I have enough money to do everything I want to do,” and, “In the last seven days, I have [not] worried about money.” (the two questions that are related to “Financial Well-Being,” which Gallup uses internationally).

Majors in the field of “Business” scored as the least-happy, in each of the three career-related categories of work-happiness. “Sciences/Engineering” scored at, or else tied for, the highest, in each of the three career-satisfaction categories (interest, satisfaction, and pay); but, the only really big difference that separated these four categories of careers from each other was the relatively big drop-off in each of these three satisfaction-measures, as was shown between “Business” majors on the one hand, versus the other three categories of majors on the other (those other three being more-closely grouped together, except for “Financial Well-Being,” where “Sciences/Engineering” was the clear stand-out, and the “Business” major was actually 1% higher than “Social sciences/Education,” which was 3% higher than “Arts and humanities”).

If anything is surprising about these poll-findings, it’s that: the consistent and substantial inferiority of the “Business” major, as compared to all others; and the consistent (and, regarding job-pay, the substantial) superiority of “Sciences/Engineering.”

This poll, of course, says nothing about an individual student’s particular areas of interest or areas of personal strengths and weaknesses, which ought also to be factored into the individual’s decisions as to which major should be pursued (if one isn’t oriented instead toward a technical field that doesn’t require any four-year degree at all). Obviously, any such career-path decision is, first and foremost, a decision about one’s own interests and abilities. However, after those are determined, consideration of this Gallup-poll’s findings should probably provide the remainder of a student’s guidance, regarding what would be the most-rational career-path to pursue, all things considered.
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As for all the people addressing why college isn't free, I think a better place to start is with CEOs making billions while teachers make almost nothing.

originally posted by: Fylgje
I cannot comprehend why anyone can't just go to college for free. That's the way education should be, IMO, so that everyone can have a chance. The day loan sharks got their hands into education was a sad day. They have the whole world enslaved in debt, in many ways.

Because pooling our money for the public good is evil now. :/

Never mind education reduces crime rate, encourages critical thinking and statistically leads to a higher income.

Ya know, if we were serious about getting our education costs in check, there is a way to do so.

College sports are a huge business in the US and generate millions of dollars for universities. Instead of paying millions for coaches, staff, facilities and still generating obnoxious profits, we force these universities to pay a reasonable wage for coaches/staff and roll the profits back in to the university to drive tuition down.

Hey, the students generate that revenue and are not paid one cent. Why not use the fruit of their labor to help the students pay for school?

Sounds reasonable to me.

a reply to: sheepslayer247

Use the profits from the Sports Entertainment Industrial Complex to actually benefit the peons?

Excuse me sir, but the Reality door is this way.

originally posted by: Eunuchorn
a reply to: sheepslayer247

Use the profits from the Sports Entertainment Industrial Complex to actually benefit the peons?

Excuse me sir, but the Reality door is this way.

I know, I know.

That's crazy talk, huh?

Well, it does sound reasonable. I've done research, and I believe I did a thread a while back on this topic, but you could drive education costs down to almost nothing if universities were required to roll their sports profits back in to their general funds.

Baby boomers made up tons of cushy jobs with no real actual work involved. Tuition has risen rapidly while student teacher ratio remained constant. All the new money went to new unnecessary jobs in administration.

www.washingtonmonthly.com...

originally posted by: JiggyPotamus
I still cannot understand how we do not have free university-level education in the United States. It is an investment in the country to do something like this, as there are more qualified people who will be working to better the country in a variety of ways. M...

Why? Because we have half of our population already dependent on government payments, that's why.

There are finite resources - and I can tell you what would happen if someone proposed "free" university education - it would be called "Welfare for the rich" by all those who can't afford or are unqualified to go to college.

There are those that argue that becoming better educated will pay you back in salary and income - that education is a worthwhile investment in your future. Those who don't go to college would say, "if it's such a great deal, let those who attend pay for it - why should my taxes go to pay for people to go to college I can't go to myself?"

The hardest left university president I know made that point early and often - "Why do *you* deserve to go to college when those who're paying for it can't?" He was a surprisingly strong believer in the middle-class not only paying their own way, but to also pay for college for those that can't afford it.

Every tuition increase I've seen usually includes an "extra" 20% or so on top of actual cost increases to pay for those who pay little or nothing. College is only expensive for the middle-class - the upper-class can afford it, and the poor can usually get it for free or next to nothing.

Hey, I think universal education and health insurance are great ideas - but as much money as our government spends and wastes, the number of people who "take" from the system already, just not gonna happen.

originally posted by: squittles
College is only expensive for the middle-class - the upper-class can afford it, and the poor can usually get it for free or next to nothing.

The poor end up in debt after college, the Pell grant does not cover much.
Poor people get loans to pay for college just like the middle class.

a reply to: squittles

& the fiat slave system trudges along...

The problem with the entire school thing is that most students and families do not look down the road or do research as to what all will be needed in the future. Many look at the traditional college stuff as where the money is, and then go for such. And most fail to realize that if the industry is full, or there are jokes about 100 or 1000 falling into the ocean and it being a good start, that should be a good indication.

Many fields that are the traditional rout for college students, are over filled, and the positions are far and few between. So the kid went to law school, the question is did he even talk to say a lawyer, finding out what all was required to be in that field, what steps he needed to take? Did he not realize, that once one graduates from school, then they start at the bottom rung and have to work, work hard and actually win to get the big money? Or was he thinking that he graduated, and that job offers would just roll in all cause he got a law degree? Did he not think, that many people, who are looking for a lawyer look for one who will win and usually seek those with a good track record? Is he doing anything to further his chosen career, like volunteering to help people, and building a reputation? Probably not, and now he is in debt.

We can not feel sorry for people that often, cause ultimately many people do not do the leg work or homework to see if the field is worth going into and what all it would take to make it, let alone get the big checks for such.

People with a 4 year degree earned 98% more per hour than those without in 2013.

College isn't just about earning potential either. If your dream is to be a lawyer because you enjoy it, then it's going to take some schooling. I'd rather be in debt and a lawyer than a manager at Whole Foods.

Here we go again...

Up to the 1940 a person could get just about any job with an 8th grade education, but today you need a BA or Masters for entry level.

Why?

Because the government & big business figured out a long time ago that populations would certainly increase over time, but due to technology advancements, the availability of jobs would not expand to meet that population growth. There is a reason they don’t want people dropping out of high school and then at the same time, encourage those high school graduates to attend junior college, then a 4 year university and finally a Masters degree or PhD. They do so because it DECREASES the amount of people looking for full-time employment at the SAME TIME, chasing after jobs in a market that CANNOT provide employment for everyone looking for, able, qualified for and willing to work.

Look at it this way, when people could get a job with an 8th grade education, they went out and did it as soon as possible (opportunity cost). Then jobs got scarcer and the minimum requirement became a high school diploma, adding 4 more years of people NOT Looking for jobs within their cohort. Then jobs got even scarcer and the minimum became a 2 or 4 year college degree, adding an additional 2-4 years of people NOT looking for jobs within their cohort. Now jobs are really scarce and may require a Masters or PHD, adding an additional 2-7 years of people NOT looking for jobs within their cohort.

Basically the way the economy has been structured TODAY, we are looking at young people within their cohort whom are NOT looking for full-time, career type, employment for 6-15 YEARS, beyond K-12, all while they finish more school!!!

This has been done ON PURPOSE, to keep the number people seeking employment lower. In 1920 after 8th grade everyone who was able, went out to look for work and typically found it, that’s simply NOT possible today under any circumstances. Easily accessed welfare will soon add another 1-3 years of people within a cohort, to those “not seeking employment”. Not to the specific detriment of society, but to continue to mask the illusion that jobs and upward mobility are still available. So, if someone gets a graduate degree and collects 1-3 years of welfare on top of than, that’s ONE less person competing for scarce jobs. The extra years of welfare are then acting in the same way to the larger economy as the increased minimum education levels for employment. Essentially with the real goal of decreasing the number of able-bodied applicants out on the job market at the same time. This cohort of people "not pursuing full-time employment" also includes those in Prison, Government pensioners/SSI and the disabled on government assistance. If everyone needed to go out and “get a job” or “start their own business” TODAY, as many “capitalists” and "entrepreneurs" suggest these days, we would all be making 0.25 cents a day.

Keeping up with the basics in terms of education and on-the-job work skills won’t be enough for jobs requiring future tech, labor market, skill-sets (i.e. robot repair). The poor and even the middle class (not the upper middle class) will simply NOT be able to keep up with the skill demands for future employment, REQUIRED CERTIFICATIONS, STATE LICENSING, etc, while earning wages AND keeping a roof over their heads. In the future these very high costs skills needed to stay “relevant” in ALL labor markets, will only be affordable to the rich, or at the very least, to VERY far forward thinking middle class families, willing to sacrifice everything financially to keep their offspring competitive in the larger job market.

With big business being hell bent on replacing living workers with machines, such comments as those in this post, miss a subtle point that ONLY the children of the wealthy will have the opportunity to become TRUE experts in such fields. Let me clarify, through the prior 20th century, a poor kid who studied hard could become a lawyer, engineer, accountant, even a doctor sometimes with the right combination of hard work, savings, scholarships, family support, etc, OR they simply went into the trades and learned on the job WITH pay. HOWEVER, in engineering and technician curriculum’s today, times are changing, which now favors kids whom have access to expensive software and hardware to “experiment” with and “practice” on before entering college or a particular training program. So when they finally get to college or to their first apprenticeship, those whom have had lots of free time to “play” with robotics and programming, outside of the classroom, WILL CERTAINLY outpace their less privileged peer, who flips burgers part-time, to pay rent and school expenses.

Before 1990, 40% of teenagers had part-time jobs while in school. This is a relevant statistic because today only 20% of teenagers in school have part-time jobs. Teens at one time made up a sizable portion of the workforce and such has changed dramatically in current employment practices.

Although not my primary point, I do think there is plenty of evidence that teens today do not have the opportunity to get part-time jobs, BUT at the same time, the wealthy ones are beginning to develop advanced skill-sets that COULD be MORE helpful in their future adult careers, than say, “working at a taco stand after school”. Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerberg are very good examples of people who made use of their free time and access to money, without having to EVER labor for pay and ultimately developed specialized skills that could not be learned at a MINDLESS part-time job or even in formal schooling. In the end, they leveraged that free time learning, into long term careers.

Those whom are going to be rendered jobless by automation/robotics/tech are going to be the least likely to be able to pick up these pieces in the coming era of traditional jobs destruction. Its going to IMPOSSIBLE for the poor to go back to school, get a masters degree in robotics, in full-time-only engineering programs, that strongly discourage their admitted students from taking part-time jobs, while favoring students who have both the money and free time and don’t EVER work at an unrelated job to their majors, who then buy expensive robotics hardware/software to experiment with outside of class.

I believe “rich kid job mobility" is going to be a bigger problem for regular folks, beyond even what the previous "rich kid" pedigree typically brought in the 20th century. This unfettered access to endless money and time to “explore” academics and hands-on work, with NO consequences, is going to END job mobility of any kind for the lower and middle classes, even those whom have met the typical required higher education and work experience standards. Its going to be a superstar only job market, with no room for middle of road folks.

a reply to: boohoo

I couldn't agree more. If you make red tape out of job requirements it limits the access to that field. But then they have loans, public support (as in they need to go to college so it's coming out of your pocket). This ultimately leads to less people being employed, more debt, less opportunities.

Eventually, most of us will be wiped out deliberately to make way for an automated society. Less consumers, less producers, less energy directed to sustaining society.

The job requirements, useless college courses, debt are all part of the puzzle. On a whole the puzzle is the destruction of the current world economy to make way for another system.

a reply to: GreenMtnBoys

You don't see anything wrong with puting college students tens, sometimes hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt to recieve an education?

Your lack of sympathy for what is basically debt slavery is pretty telling. And pretty ignorant.

I hope you never have children and one day realize that they will never be free because they chose to get a higher education. The federal student loan programs in this country are criminal, and its ignorant (or stupid) people like yourself who will allow itto continue, and get worse.

Wow, a manager at whole foods? Work your way up the corporate ladder?

What about the people who dream to be something more than an employee of whole foods? what about the kids who spent 6 years going to school and want to forge their own destiny in this life? No one should have to settle for some 2 bit corporate job just because they have to pay off student loans. No one should have to sacrifice their dreams and ambitions of doing something great because the system put them into 100K worth of debt just to get a degree.

People who strive to do great things in their life are being hampered by a system that borders on criminal. And here you sit on that high horse of yours saying 'poor college kids, boo hooo'. Give me a god damn break with this. The goal is to deny ignorance, not spread it around rampantly.