Kristallnacht : A warning from history

a reply to: Ridhya

The rulers of USA are definitely atheist. A Christian label does not make you a Christian. A Christian is one who follows Jesus Christ. Celebrating Easter and X'mas does not make a Christian.

You are correct that atheist are the worst. However Islam is close second in murder.

Islam ideology is very close to Nazi ideology, which is a tribal ideology where people external to tribe are rejected.

The civilized people who bow to ONE God all believe that God is impartial and one for all living beings.

a reply to: cavtrooper7

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
Verify your method of separation so we don't vilify incorrectly.We need to be defended.

The threat is an illusion - you are being scammed.

If any real threat (from Muslims/Middle East), it is very minor.

There are greater threats to be concerned about, like the threat from within.

a reply to: TechniXcality

originally posted by: TechniXcality
a reply to: neformore
No obviously not all Muslims are terrorists but unfortunately because of their ideology all Muslims are potential terrorists.

I don't think it is correct to say that the 'ideology' - that is, the Muslim religion based on the Koran is the cause of terrorism. Have you ever read any of it? Actually, it promotes peace.

edit: Ok I take some of that back; just read some questionable passages in the Quran directed towards the "idolaters" whoever they were. It was probably regarding a specific conflict at the time..

originally posted by: neformore
a reply to: TechniXcality

You do realise that Goebbels would be proud of that line, don't you?

Actually TechniXcality and Semperfortis are right.

BTW, I am not saying all Muslims are radical, or bad people, but the fact is Islam was written (well, actually he recited it) by a man who was a murderer, who chopped off heads of the men of caravans who would surrender, who took slave wives from caravans he and his groups raided. Muhammad, a man who went against the mandates he himself claimed came from God (or the archangel Gabriel) such as having only 4 wives, when he had 11-13.

When some people claim that "radical Islam was invented by the west" I often refer back to the first major wars the U.S. had to fight, alongside some countries in Europe, against the northern African nations (Barbary states) in the early 1800s.

All we have to do is read what Tripoli's envoy, Ambassador Sidi Haji Abdrahaman, told Thomas Jefferson and John Adams in 1785 to their question of "concerning the ground of the pretensions to make war upon nations who had done them no injury" the ambassador replied:

...

It was written in their Koran, that all nations which had not acknowledged the Prophet were sinners, whom it was the right and duty of the faithful to plunder and enslave; and that every mussulman who was slain in this warfare was sure to go to paradise. He said, also, that the man who was the first to board a vessel had one slave over and above his share, and that when they sprang to the deck of an enemy's ship, every sailor held a dagger in each hand and a third in his mouth; which usually struck such terror into the foe that they cried out for quarter at once.[21]

Jefferson reported the conversation to Secretary of Foreign Affairs John Jay, who submitted the Ambassador's comments and offer to Congress. Jefferson argued that paying tribute would encourage more attacks. Although John Adams agreed with Jefferson, he believed that circumstances forced the U.S. to pay tribute until an adequate navy could be built. The U.S. had just fought an exhausting war, which put the nation deep in debt. Federalist and Anti-Federalist forces argued over the needs of the country and the burden of taxation. Jefferson's own Democratic-Republicans and anti-navalists believed that the future of the country lay in westward expansion, with Atlantic trade threatening to siphon money and energy away from the new nation on useless wars in the Old World.[22] The U.S. paid Algiers the ransom, and continued to pay up to $1 million per year over the next 15 years for the safe passage of American ships or the return of American hostages.[citation needed] A $1 million payment in ransom and tribute to the privateering states would have amounted to approximately 10% of the U.S. government's annual revenues in 1800.[
...

en.wikipedia.org...

Muhammed was not a peaceful person, and he encouraged the expansion of Islam by any and every way, including by use of the sword, or the use of deception or "al-Taqiyya".

Islam Permits Lying to Deceive Unbelievers and Bring World Domination!

By Don Boys, Ph.D.

Published Nov 17, 2004

deception; the islamic word for concealing or disguising one’s beliefs, convictions, ideas, feelings, opinions, and/or strategies.

It is impossible to understand Islam and Muslims by listening to their protestations against terror and their proclamations of patriotism for America. Usually, it is wise and fair to give people the benefit of the doubt but when it comes to national safety and the future of America, we had better look twice, even thrice at Muslim patriotism. Why? Because Islam permits lying! It is called “Al-taqiyya.” One Muslim said that Al-taqiyya means dissimulation then he expanded it to diplomacy but he should have gone further to deception. Now some Muslims who do not follow the Koran are as faithful Americans as any of us, but the problem is, we cannot know.
...

www.muslimfact.com...

If you don't want to believe the above link, there are others.

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Introduction

The word "al-Taqiyya”literally means: "Concealing or disguising one’s beliefs, convictions, ideas, feelings, opinions, and/or strategies at a time of eminent danger, whether now or later in time, to save oneself from physical and/or mental injury.”A one-word translation would be "Dissimulation."

The above definition must be elaborated upon before any undertaking of this topic is to ensue. Although correct, the definition suffers from an apparent generalization, and lacks some ndamental details that should be construed:

First, the concealment of one’s beliefs does not necessitate an ABANDONMENT of these beliefs. The distinction between "concealment”and "abandonment”MUST be noted here.

Second, there are numerous exceptions to the above definition, and they MUST be judged according to the situation that one is placed in. As such, one should NOT make a narrow-minded generalization that encompasses all situations, thereby failing to fully absorb the spirit of the definition.

Third, the word "beliefs”and/or "convictions”does NOT necessarily mean "religious”beliefs and/or convictions.

With the above in mind, it becomes evident that a better, and more accurate definition of "al-Taqiyya”is "diplomacy.”The true spirit of "al- Taqiyya”is better embodied in the single word "diplomacy”because it encompasses a comprehensive spectrum of behaviors that serve to further the vested interests of all parties involved.
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www.al-islam.org...

But hey, I guess it is true that "diplomacy" is the art of "deception" huh?

Anyways, I don't believe that all Muslims subscribe to the extremist view, but Islam does allow extremism despite claims of the contrary. You will find some sections of the Quran which would seem to be peaceful, but you can find other sections speaking of the same thing but having nothing to do with peaceful intentions.

The worse part is, how do you separate the radicals from non-radicals? There are those that call themselves as being non-radical and then they demonstrate the contrary.

originally posted by: neformore
a reply to: TinfoilTP

Again, go back and re-read the OP, and try and understand the anaology.

It seems to be a common failing that people can't manage that.

So people who don't agree with what you wrote are failers, gotcha.

a reply to: dragonridr
Way to deliberately ignore everything I said at the end.

a reply to: Kandinsky
Exactly what I profess, that the human race is the only common factor in human violence. Guns do not kill people, religion does not kill people, violent ideology does not kill people. Murder is a choice, and personal justification for it (fear, religion, ideology, whatever) is just an excuse. Every group on the planet has murdered. Destroying Islam from the world wouldnt solve anything. People have been killing each other for hundreds of thousands of years before islam existed.

a reply to: GargIndia
Use your own logic against your point then: if an american warmonger is a phony christian, and an evil jewish banker is a phony jew, why isnt an extremist ISIS daeshbag a phony muslim?

Islam may not give a # about pagans but it explicitly states they can not harm christians, jews, or other muslims. So those retards arent even following their own faith.

And my previous point in the thread still stands. White people and in particular atheists and Christian-professing peoples have caused more death and suffering than Islam. Probably because they have existed longer. Your own people suffered under the British, and remember when they burned their documents about the Empire's crimes to save face? Hell what of the white Aryans who invaded the Harrappans?

Islam is an easily twisted religion because a lot of the regions it proliferates are impoverished and do not have public education. Therein lies the solution. Poverty/lack of education breeds ignorance, anger, resentment, particularly of the white guys blowing up their sh##.

The civilized people who bow to ONE God all believe that God is impartial and one for all living beings.

I bow to no god. I bow to no man. But I dont care if other people do and I dont care if they hate me for that.

Ok people, I've been reading through the tumultuous comments, seeing it sway back and forth through different points of view, and well really, i just wanted to bring something to it in my style, to bring us all together.

a reply to: nOraKat

Wow, beautiful someone who will see for themselves a very rare quality

originally posted by: TechniXcality
a reply to: neformore

No obviously not all Muslims are terrorists but unfortunately because of their ideology all Muslims are potential terrorists.

By that reasoning - because of their constitutional 'right to bear arms' all Americans are potential murderers.

a reply to: neformore

Except the Muslim religion allows for, promotes lying to infidels. There are two forms of lying to non-believers that are permitted under certain circumstances, taqiyya and kitman. These circumstances are typically those that advance the cause Islam - in some cases by gaining the trust of non-believers in order to draw out their vulnerability and defeat them.

Regardless of what they say, it is not a wise policy to contract with a group where lying is permitted in their doctrine if you don't believe as they do. I'm for diversity, but their doctrine is ripe for abuse on good intentioned but naive people. The Muslim religion is not a religion of peace anymore than Christianity or Judaism.

a reply to: neformore

There's another lesson from history hidden in your post.

Germany did not capitulate because it was losing the war. It capitulated because, starting with the Wilhelmshaven mutiny of late October 1918, there was a socialist revolution that deposed the Kaiser.

The Republic was declared on the 9th of November, the Armistice on 11th November.

Exploiting the connetion between the left and Germany's defeat was like taking candy from a baby for the Nazis. Throw in some deeply ingrained anti-semitism and it all kicks off.

Why has this been written out of mainstream Hollywood McHistory?

a reply to: Metallicus

Indeed, there were good Nazis. Ever heard of John Rabe?

Oskar Schindler?

In fact, there are many shades of gray. But the reason, that we're having hell on earth seems to be that many people are not capable of differentiating between those shades of gray. All they're able to see is white and black. And everything that's not perfect white is therefore black.

As long as we're not able to see the US inside of THEM, there will be pain and suffering.

Time and tide waits for no man.
If the recorded history deems ww3, then the time paradigm will make it happen. Make no mistake about this.

There is only one thing to learn from history : Humankind is corrupted to it`s core . Peace only means that you don`nt have anything i want right now , that`s it .
End of discussion

originally posted by: kitzik

When this caliphate will be the size of Russia you will fear.

If that would be the case I would maybe, but I don´t see it happening. ISIS is only where it is, and doing what it does, because they are being allowed to, IMO.

You think they are just going to waltz in on the rest of the ME too?

a reply to: TinfoilTP

The people who constantly can't seem to read what I actually said, and instead keep coming back over and over again trying to infer something there that isn't are certainly failing at reading comprehension, yes.

a reply to: neformore

There's one big difference between the US and nazi Germany, though.

Muslims are actually attacking us.

So much talk about the beheadings like they really happened with no comprehension of psyop. Okla, do your research/how come it took a day to come up with the beheading story? Don't cha think that would have been reported asap. Ck the local newscast before the spin, disgruntled worker stabs co workers. Those stories are out there for inquiring minds.

re ISIS beheadings...sheeple will believe anything I guess.

Remember the saying if they are pointing to the right hand watch what the left is doing?

Ppl are so easily conditioned to fear and in that fear critical thinking is mute. Arabs of any persuasion will be rounded up for internment camps and ppl will say it is a good thing.

In the mean time Palestinians are left with dealing with the aftermath of genocide. Ppl, including children, lay in hospitals with few if any med supplies, limbs, eyes, faces obliterated.

I only hope that those with eyes to see outnumber those who are blinded by fear.

Is it a futile hope...I hope not.

Well, in both cases a hyper-nationalistic, right-wing government aligned with special interests utilized a demonized other (Germans the Jews and Bush the Muslims) to bring people together in the name of security. Using this, war was justified by the government using fear and a threat of terrorism.

I agree 100% with you that not only was the specter of Muslim terrorists used to terrify the Western public into compliance but the propaganda was so successful that especially (but not limited to by any means) conservatives to this day are rabidly anti-Islamic. I see it all of the time online, in blogs, on Fox News etc. Most of these people, including on ATS, have very little real experience with normal Muslim people nor have studied the history of all of the Abrahamic religions.

I have not only worked, lived, and traveled in countries with many Muslims (Bangladesh, Egypt, Jordan) but also have a number of friends who i've worked and studied with who come from Muslim families and lands. Anybody who has my experience knows that the vast majority are perfectly normal people. I myself, out of ALL the Muslims I've known over the years, have never once met an extremist. Not once.

originally posted by: neformore

Kristallnacht: Also known as The Night of the Broken Glass. On this night, November 9, 1938, almost 200 synagogues were destroyed, over 8,000 Jewish shops were sacked and looted, and tens of thousands of Jews were removed to concentration camps.

fcit.usf.edu...

Back in the late 1920's and through the 1930's the National Socialist German Workers' Party embalked on a campaign of monstrous proprtions.

Back in the 20's, Germany was a broken nation. They had lost the first world war, their economy was ruined, their military smashed and stripped bare. The people of that country needed a focus. They needed someone to blame and some clever, twisted bigots decided to use that to their own ends.

Through propaganda, carefully placed words, outright lies and fear mongering a public was manipulated and people began to take their frustration out on the Jews. Immigration, financial corruption, religious beliefs and all manner of other issues/practices were cited. Lies were repeated until they became "truth". Eventually a whole society lost its collective conscience, dropped into a state of apathy and then the country turned into a cesspit of hate and people stood by as despicable things began to happen, and those things then snowballed into genocide.

I wasn't alive during those times - I'm fairly sure its unlikely that anyone reading this was, but I am a student of history - particularly the second world war era, and recent events have made me sit up, take notice, and have made my skin crawl.

You see - its happening again. Albeit in different circumstances.

"Dirty muslim"
"Filthy Muslim"
"Rag Heads"
"Turn the middle east to glass"
"Send them home"
"They aren't like us, they have no place being here"
"A good muslim is a dead muslim"
"All they want to do is take our jobs/take our women/kill us"
"They're all the same"

Such things seem to be becoming commonplace on blogs, on facebook and other social media, on some news programs and even here on ATS.

Our society is losing its humanity again.

Yes, I understand 9/11 (although most people here think it was an inside job it seems). I understand Al Qaeda. I understand ISIS. I understand the middle east situation. I understand the paranoia and the fear of things that may seem different.

I understand that there are people out there in the world who wish to do others harm, under the guise of a perversion of a religion. I get that. I don't want to see those people in my world. I have no problem whatsoever with the armed forces of any nation being used to bring cold blooded killers to justice. None at all.

But those people do not represent all muslims - despite what some of the carefully crafted fear mongering propaganda out there will try and tell you.

You know the kind I mean. The propaganda akin to that the Nazi's used about the Jews in the 30's.

The kind that makes people out to be sub-human.
The kind that makes all kinds of assertions about motives.
The kind that deliberately tries to set up differences.
The kind that seizeson the comments of an extremist and tries to make out its a common view.
The kind that singles out one section of society and tries to make out that it is responsible for every kind of problem imagineable.
The kind that picks up on individual issues and tries to make out that all people see it that way.
The kind that gets spread virally on social media out of ignorance, fear and malice. The propaganda du jour.
The kind that leads people to begin to casually accept it.
The kind that leeches and seeps into collective conciousness.
The kind that leads to "reprisals", to witch hunts, to forced segregation, to the wearing of symbols, to tattoo's, to ghetto's to camps to gas chambers...

Hopefully it won't get that far.

If we, as "responsible" nations in the west wish to take the high ground, to confront the extremists and the killers, to bring them to justice, to prevent the spread of their brand of hatred (which is, I believe, a worthy cause) then we have to be better as a society as well as being better militarily.

We have to understand that the actions of a few do not represent the actions of the many - and lets be clear on this - there are 1.6 billion muslims on the planet and all but a very small percentage of those people live a peacful existence.

We have to be better. We have to resist the temptation to slide into the cesspit.

We have to avoid another Kristallnacht.

originally posted by: LewsTherinThelamon
a reply to: neformore

There's one big difference between the US and nazi Germany, though.

Muslims are actually attacking us.

The problem with your view though is that we are attacking the countries of these people far more than they us. For example, Iraq War II alone killed 200,000 civilians, in a country that had nothing to do with 911.... In their view, and arguably, they have a right to attack us.